Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

I’m the PP you responded to - thanks. I understand what you’re saying, and I didn’t know that 1/6 of the world’s population is estimated to be antisemitic. I was specifically asking about the U.S. because the original poster specifically said the West, and I assume that most posters here are in the U.S. I believe you on antisemitism in Europe being worse.

I take your point about college campuses. It’s been a while since I’ve been on one, but I guess my question is (again, sincerely, and also recognizing that Jewish people aren’t a monolith) - does the Jewish community consider protests against the Israeli government’s policy toward Palestinians to be antisemitic? I get the impression from this thread that some Jews consider any criticism of Israel to be antisemitic.

Yes, I have also seen some protesters on social media use slurs or actively say hateful things. Those people are also generally called out or fired or told their rhetoric is unacceptable. Given this, it would be surprising to me if Jewish college students were being singled out for harm as part of these protests. If you’re saying it’s happening, I believe you. I just haven’t heard of reports of this on a wide scale such that it seems to me that U.S. college campuses are unsafe for Jewish students right now. Fully with the caveat that I haven’t been following this particular issue that closely.

why tf are you on here, page 900+ of this discussion, spouting all this nonsense disputing that Jews feel threatened, capped with “I haven’t been following this particular issue that closely”???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

As a parent of a Muslim Palestinian child on a U.S. Ivy League campus, I have to agree with you. My child has witnessed both verbal abuse of Jewish students because they’re Jewish and expressing horror at the terrorist attacks in the Israel. My child has also been verbally abused by students and professors because he expressed horror at the deaths of children in Gaza. It seems like people are quick to call the other side a terrorist when all they’re doing is expressing extreme pain at the senseless violence and death.

Oddly enough, the person who came to his door to give him a hug and say that she is a safe place to express his pain — she is Jewish. We parents cried tears of relief that he and this young lady can hear each other.

I have a hard time believing that anyone attacked your son for expressing concerns about Gazan civilians.

You’d have a hard time listening to what was said. I’ve seen it here on this board and on Facebook. People hear Palestinian and sympathy with Gazans, and they call him a Hamas sympathizer and terrorist. They’ve told him to leave this country and go home. He was born in the US. And of course, we cant go home because we’re not allowed to move back wheee our family is from.

I take the Jewish posters at their word when they describe verbal abuse. I think I deserve that too.

I can believe your son has suffered discrimination. I absolutely do not believe that he was called a “terrorist” on a college campus just for expressing sympathy with Gazan civilians. He said or did something else that was interpreted as a call to destroy Israel. Some of the kids chanting “from the ricer to the sea” may not understand what they were saying.

Not the PP but why wouldn’t you believe this? There are Palestinians on Twitter who are asking for calm and co-existence who report getting death threats from Islamic extremists. Do you think they are lying too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

As a parent of a Muslim Palestinian child on a U.S. Ivy League campus, I have to agree with you. My child has witnessed both verbal abuse of Jewish students because they’re Jewish and expressing horror at the terrorist attacks in the Israel. My child has also been verbally abused by students and professors because he expressed horror at the deaths of children in Gaza. It seems like people are quick to call the other side a terrorist when all they’re doing is expressing extreme pain at the senseless violence and death.

Oddly enough, the person who came to his door to give him a hug and say that she is a safe place to express his pain — she is Jewish. We parents cried tears of relief that he and this young lady can hear each other.

I have a hard time believing that anyone attacked your son for expressing concerns about Gazan civilians.

You’d have a hard time listening to what was said. I’ve seen it here on this board and on Facebook. People hear Palestinian and sympathy with Gazans, and they call him a Hamas sympathizer and terrorist. They’ve told him to leave this country and go home. He was born in the US. And of course, we cant go home because we’re not allowed to move back wheee our family is from.

I take the Jewish posters at their word when they describe verbal abuse. I think I deserve that too.

I can believe your son has suffered discrimination. I absolutely do not believe that he was called a “terrorist” on a college campus just for expressing sympathy with Gazan civilians. He said or did something else that was interpreted as a call to destroy Israel. Some of the kids chanting “from the ricer to the sea” may not understand what they were saying.

You may not believe it, but I welcome you to walk a mile in our shoes before you make up your mind.

[Anonymous]

Let me be clear on something: while SOME Jews consider all criticism of Israel to be antisemitic, that is NOT all of us.

Please stop generalizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith, but I'm just too tired to explain it anymore. And those who don't believe it tend not to believe it no matter what I say. But I am a progressive myself and I believe any minority group, and women, when they say they feel unsafe. I would only ask that if you give others the benefit of the doubt, that you give it to Jews as well.

YES.

Does any other minority group have to constantly justify that we are indeed telling the truth about being discriminated against?

Do you think we fking LIKE this???

Do you think I like having to explain to my kid what a swastika is because it was drawn yet again on our synagogue? Or why we have a cop there, but the church around the corner doesn’t?

Give me a fking break.

I think there’s a strange paradox in the US. Most people have very strong positive beliefs about Jews (per polling) yet absolutely do not want to hear a word about antisemitism. It’s some kind of model minority dynamic. Or maybe the positive image of Jews entails them being perceived as victims who accept victimhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

As a parent of a Muslim Palestinian child on a U.S. Ivy League campus, I have to agree with you. My child has witnessed both verbal abuse of Jewish students because they’re Jewish and expressing horror at the terrorist attacks in the Israel. My child has also been verbally abused by students and professors because he expressed horror at the deaths of children in Gaza. It seems like people are quick to call the other side a terrorist when all they’re doing is expressing extreme pain at the senseless violence and death.

Oddly enough, the person who came to his door to give him a hug and say that she is a safe place to express his pain — she is Jewish. We parents cried tears of relief that he and this young lady can hear each other.

I have a hard time believing that anyone attacked your son for expressing concerns about Gazan civilians.

You’d have a hard time listening to what was said. I’ve seen it here on this board and on Facebook. People hear Palestinian and sympathy with Gazans, and they call him a Hamas sympathizer and terrorist. They’ve told him to leave this country and go home. He was born in the US. And of course, we cant go home because we’re not allowed to move back wheee our family is from.

I take the Jewish posters at their word when they describe verbal abuse. I think I deserve that too.

I can believe your son has suffered discrimination. I absolutely do not believe that he was called a “terrorist” on a college campus just for expressing sympathy with Gazan civilians. He said or did something else that was interpreted as a call to destroy Israel. Some of the kids chanting “from the ricer to the sea” may not understand what they were saying.

You may not believe it, but I welcome you to walk a mile in our shoes before you make up your mind.

sure - that requires you to tell us exactly what your son said/did to be branded a terrorist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith, but I'm just too tired to explain it anymore. And those who don't believe it tend not to believe it no matter what I say. But I am a progressive myself and I believe any minority group, and women, when they say they feel unsafe. I would only ask that if you give others the benefit of the doubt, that you give it to Jews as well.

I’m the PP, and I’m an Asian woman who lives in NYC. Where there was a wave of crime against Asian women during and after Covid, such that many in the Asian community believed that there it was related to anti-Asian hate and/or that they were unsafe walking around NYC. I had the same questions for them then - I’m really just trying to understand the fear. The fact of the matter is that there are (unfortunately, seems like there will always be) groups in this country who hate anyone who isn’t a straight white Christian man, and at various times those people come to the public attention through high-profile violence/rhetoric (Charlottesville rally, high-profile violent crime against Asians, the stabbing of the little Palestinian boy, antisemitic rhetoric at protests).

I guess what I was trying to say is that, as a member of such a group, that doesn’t make me feel like my “group” (Asians, Asian women) is so threatened in the US that I should move back to the country my parents immigrated from. I have heard this sentiment expressed a few times, that Jews in America are terrified. I’m just trying to understand of what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me be clear on something: while SOME Jews consider all criticism of Israel to be antisemitic, that is NOT all of us.

Please stop generalizing.

But I’d say almost all Jews consider calls for the destruction of Israel to be antisemitic. Right? It gets a little more complicated when it comes to Israel’s right to self-defense, but I think the vast majority probably agree that Israel can defend itself against Hamas, even if many believe that Israel’s actions are excessive.

[Anonymous]

There are protests at NYU going on now with (presumably) students holding signs overtly advocating for cleansing the world of Jews:

https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1717230780751950164

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith, but I'm just too tired to explain it anymore. And those who don't believe it tend not to believe it no matter what I say. But I am a progressive myself and I believe any minority group, and women, when they say they feel unsafe. I would only ask that if you give others the benefit of the doubt, that you give it to Jews as well.

I’m the PP, and I’m an Asian woman who lives in NYC. Where there was a wave of crime against Asian women during and after Covid, such that many in the Asian community believed that there it was related to anti-Asian hate and/or that they were unsafe walking around NYC. I had the same questions for them then - I’m really just trying to understand the fear. The fact of the matter is that there are (unfortunately, seems like there will always be) groups in this country who hate anyone who isn’t a straight white Christian man, and at various times those people come to the public attention through high-profile violence/rhetoric (Charlottesville rally, high-profile violent crime against Asians, the stabbing of the little Palestinian boy, antisemitic rhetoric at protests).

I guess what I was trying to say is that, as a member of such a group, that doesn’t make me feel like my “group” (Asians, Asian women) is so threatened in the US that I should move back to the country my parents immigrated from. I have heard this sentiment expressed a few times, that Jews in America are terrified. I’m just trying to understand of what.

Really? Because there are regularly attacks on Jews in the U.S. and there are very popular mainstream celebrities and figures who spout antisemitism -- like Nick Fuentes, who met with Trump recently.

Last year at Congregation Beth Israel synagogue in Colleyville, Texas, United States, when a gunmen broke in and took hostages.

In 2019, when at the Poway synagogue when an assailant armed with an AR-15 style rifle fatally shot one woman and injured three other persons, including the synagogue's rabbi.

The Pittsburgh synagogue shooting in 2018, where a perpetrator shot and killed eleven people and wounded six, including several Holocaust survivors.

[Anonymous]

And while Harvard students holding up signs might not be scary, neo-Nazis and jihadists are. Police in London, England and in Sydney, Australia have broken up Jewish peace protests and arrested Jews "for their own safety". No one in the west is afraid of Israel and they certainly aren't afraid of Jews. But many of the people who commit violence against Jews are extremely frightening, and neutral parties will cower rather than stand up to them. That is how a holocaust happens.

[Anonymous]

How dehumanizing and shameful to hear this from a President that shills another nation’s propaganda, including “40 beheaded babies”

I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. I’m sure innocents have been killed, and it’s a price of waging war. But I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using,’ he said at the White House earlier today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And while Harvard students holding up signs might not be scary, neo-Nazis and jihadists are. Police in London, England and in Sydney, Australia have broken up Jewish peace protests and arrested Jews "for their own safety". No one in the west is afraid of Israel and they certainly aren't afraid of Jews. But many of the people who commit violence against Jews are extremely frightening, and neutral parties will cower rather than stand up to them. That is how a holocaust happens.

The DSA/BLM were specifically infiltrated and propagandized by the scary folks too.

[Anonymous]

Safe passage to a mansion in Turkey for the remnants of Hamas leadership, release of all hostages, demilitarization snd de-tunnelization of Gaza and temporary oversight of Gaza by international group — not the UN, they are wayyyy biased, it seems —- and hope for different election results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How dehumanizing and shameful to hear this from a President that shills another nation’s propaganda, including “40 beheaded babies”

I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. I’m sure innocents have been killed, and it’s a price of waging war. But I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using,’ he said at the White House earlier today.

I don’t think your continued references to the dead babies (which Hamas deliberately targeted) is really having the effect you want it to have …