Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

In Herndon va, everyone I know is starting to question why we are supporting Israel, out loud .

Israel keeps sending religious fanatics into the West Bank. Why?

The settlers are extremists.

But to use them as an excuse for not wanting to allow Israel to defend itself is like using US militias in Michigan as an excuse to demonize the entire US population.

The settlers are vocal, not a minority.

Your comparison to Michigan is offensive. Michigan doesn’t have militias

Of course they’re a minority. WTH are you talking about?

Those extremist settlers used to be called pioneers
Respected and supported by the government and legal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I'll go out on a bit of a limb, fully prepared to see it get cut off at any minute, and say that we may have to start reconciling ourselves to Hamas surviving this thing. Israel and the US seem to be losing their appetite for a ground war. As progress is made towards releasing the hostages, a ground war will probably be continued to be pushed back. It is questionable how long Israel can continue to keep its reserves mobilized but just sitting around. Ultimately, calmer heads may prevail and there will be some sort of negotiated ceasefire and life goes back to normal.

The counter argument to this is that the minute it is clear the worst is over, Netanyahu will be kicked out and likely headed for jail. So, he may prefer to keep hostilities going for as long as possible.

I’ve been following this conflict closely for over 25 years, as a white Christian American. I think you’re probably right, but with the important point that ultimately this isn’t about Hamas. There was conflict before Hamas emerged in 1987 and will be conflict after Hamas is crushed.

The conflict will continue until the Palestinians either get enough of their rights recognized that they can live with it … or they’re exterminated in a final solution.

Hamas is a straw man. A deadly one, an unacceptable one. But the issue is fundamentally about rights.

Please stop using language like “a final solution.”

Tell you Zionist friends to stop the genocide and I’ll be happy to comply.

I don’t know anyone in the Israeli government.

Do you think we Jews have some secret hotline where we can all communicate with one another?

Enough with the implicit accusations of antisemitism. There is an actual genocide happening as we type. This is about bombs and eradication of an entire people. You may not have a problem with that, but I do.

You told me to tell my “Zionist friends” to stop the “genocide.” How in the holy hell do you expect me to do that?!

The same way the PP you are replying to will tell Hamas to release hostages, stop bombing Israel, and give the Gaza people food and fuel:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I'll go out on a bit of a limb, fully prepared to see it get cut off at any minute, and say that we may have to start reconciling ourselves to Hamas surviving this thing. Israel and the US seem to be losing their appetite for a ground war. As progress is made towards releasing the hostages, a ground war will probably be continued to be pushed back. It is questionable how long Israel can continue to keep its reserves mobilized but just sitting around. Ultimately, calmer heads may prevail and there will be some sort of negotiated ceasefire and life goes back to normal.

The counter argument to this is that the minute it is clear the worst is over, Netanyahu will be kicked out and likely headed for jail. So, he may prefer to keep hostilities going for as long as possible.

I’ve been following this conflict closely for over 25 years, as a white Christian American. I think you’re probably right, but with the important point that ultimately this isn’t about Hamas. There was conflict before Hamas emerged in 1987 and will be conflict after Hamas is crushed.

The conflict will continue until the Palestinians either get enough of their rights recognized that they can live with it … or they’re exterminated in a final solution.

Hamas is a straw man. A deadly one, an unacceptable one. But the issue is fundamentally about rights.

Please stop using language like “a final solution.”

Tell you Zionist friends to stop the genocide and I’ll be happy to comply.

I don’t know anyone in the Israeli government.

Do you think we Jews have some secret hotline where we can all communicate with one another?

Enough with the implicit accusations of antisemitism. There is an actual genocide happening as we type. This is about bombs and eradication of an entire people. You may not have a problem with that, but I do.

You told me to tell my “Zionist friends” to stop the “genocide.” How in the holy hell do you expect me to do that?!

Most Zionists in the US are not Jewish. Many Jews are not Zionists. I have a problem with Zionism. I have no problem with Judaism or Jewish culture. It’s the particular political philosophy as applied in the MidEast that I object to. This genocide is being fought for and by Zionists. Just last week I marched with thousands of Jews who say the same thing I am saying here.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

As a parent of a Muslim Palestinian child on a U.S. Ivy League campus, I have to agree with you. My child has witnessed both verbal abuse of Jewish students because they’re Jewish and expressing horror at the terrorist attacks in the Israel. My child has also been verbally abused by students and professors because he expressed horror at the deaths of children in Gaza. It seems like people are quick to call the other side a terrorist when all they’re doing is expressing extreme pain at the senseless violence and death.

Oddly enough, the person who came to his door to give him a hug and say that she is a safe place to express his pain — she is Jewish. We parents cried tears of relief that he and this young lady can hear each other.

I’m sorry your child experienced that.

But remember that the girl who expressed solidarity with your child wasn’t being unusual at least among American Jews. She was practicing tikkun olam (improvement in the world and social justice). It’s one of our core values. I have seen absolutely nothing but grief and sadness in the dozens of emails and correspondence I’ve been part of with Jewish organizations.

There’s been absolutely nothing about invading Gaza, support for the air strikes, or harboring any negative feelings whatsoever towards Muslims or anything like that. I get emails from my synagogue, the local JCC, PJ library, the ADL, etc etc etc

So it really saddens me when I see people equating Likud and Bibi with all Jews.

I actually think jews are one of the strong supporters of the Palestinian cause, and im so proud of them for standing up for what is right as it must be very difficult. There are some fringe groups though that i dont understand, check out the group :’ life on the border of gaza, things people may not know ( but should) ’ its a public facebook group, and mostly composed of Jews who live in settlements in occupied Palestine and American Jews and some of the things they post are scary, some of the things they teach their children will only perpetuate hate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I'll go out on a bit of a limb, fully prepared to see it get cut off at any minute, and say that we may have to start reconciling ourselves to Hamas surviving this thing. Israel and the US seem to be losing their appetite for a ground war. As progress is made towards releasing the hostages, a ground war will probably be continued to be pushed back. It is questionable how long Israel can continue to keep its reserves mobilized but just sitting around. Ultimately, calmer heads may prevail and there will be some sort of negotiated ceasefire and life goes back to normal.

The counter argument to this is that the minute it is clear the worst is over, Netanyahu will be kicked out and likely headed for jail. So, he may prefer to keep hostilities going for as long as possible.

I’ve been following this conflict closely for over 25 years, as a white Christian American. I think you’re probably right, but with the important point that ultimately this isn’t about Hamas. There was conflict before Hamas emerged in 1987 and will be conflict after Hamas is crushed.

The conflict will continue until the Palestinians either get enough of their rights recognized that they can live with it … or they’re exterminated in a final solution.

Hamas is a straw man. A deadly one, an unacceptable one. But the issue is fundamentally about rights.

Please stop using language like “a final solution.”

Tell you Zionist friends to stop the genocide and I’ll be happy to comply.

I don’t know anyone in the Israeli government.

Do you think we Jews have some secret hotline where we can all communicate with one another?

Enough with the implicit accusations of antisemitism. There is an actual genocide happening as we type. This is about bombs and eradication of an entire people. You may not have a problem with that, but I do.

You told me to tell my “Zionist friends” to stop the “genocide.” How in the holy hell do you expect me to do that?!

Most Zionists in the US are not Jewish. Many Jews are not Zionists. I have a problem with Zionism. I have no problem with Judaism or Jewish culture. It’s the particular political philosophy as applied in the MidEast that I object to. This genocide is being fought for and by Zionists. Just last week I marched with thousands of Jews who say the same thing I am saying here.

When you continue to use the word "genocide" against Jewish people, you have lost the plot.
You do not understand the meaning of the word. You totally discredit yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It genuinely boggles my mind that pro Palestinian posters on this group continue to ignore the fact that the elected, de facto authorities in Gaza - Hamas - are hiding in tunnels and in Qatar and allowing their population to suffer - without food and fuel that has been stockpiled. I am not saying Israel should continue air strikes, I am saying that there are two sides to this:

I have thought about that too, but elections were in 2007 so that is passed.
I am not ready to blame Hamas for the suffering in Gaza.
I blame Hamas for suffering in Israel and Israel for suffering in Gaza

Likewise Israelis voted the hard liners into Knesset and that is why they have messed up internal politics

[Anonymous]

Punishing is one thing, killing is another. Israel is not punishing Hamas they don't know how to effectively punish the wrong doers so they have chosen to kill all of their foes the Palestinians. In no time when they can Hana's will round up the rest i or d Palestinians who vow revenge and we start the whole episode over. May take a few years but the cycle never ends. Vengeance is mine says the Lord. It's not for mere mortals to bomb the hell out of women and children even if there are evil people among them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

Because the statements being made are calling for the destruction of Israel and by association, the Jews, and have also celebrated the Hamas terrorist acts. Hamas is an expressly antisemitic group and these college protest can easily be interpreted as supporting Hamas.

NP. I’m not disputing that there have been protests like you describe— I haven’t seen any myself but assume you’re telling the truth.

But the protests I have seen at AU and Georgetown were condemning genocide. There was nothing suggesting support of Hamas. Are these protests also frightening to Jews?

Chanting “from the river to the sea”; praising “martyrs”; ripping down posters of the Israeli hostages; and outright calling for the destruction of Israel. That’s all part of the co

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith, but I'm just too tired to explain it anymore. And those who don't believe it tend not to believe it no matter what I say. But I am a progressive myself and I believe any minority group, and women, when they say they feel unsafe. I would only ask that if you give others the benefit of the doubt, that you give it to Jews as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

I’m the PP you responded to - thanks. I understand what you’re saying, and I didn’t know that 1/6 of the world’s population is estimated to be antisemitic. I was specifically asking about the U.S. because the original poster specifically said the West, and I assume that most posters here are in the U.S. I believe you on antisemitism in Europe being worse.

I take your point about college campuses. It’s been a while since I’ve been on one, but I guess my question is (again, sincerely, and also recognizing that Jewish people aren’t a monolith) - does the Jewish community consider protests against the Israeli government’s policy toward Palestinians to be antisemitic? I get the impression from this thread that some Jews consider any criticism of Israel to be antisemitic.

Yes, I have also seen some protesters on social media use slurs or actively say hateful things. Those people are also generally called out or fired or told their rhetoric is unacceptable. Given this, it would be surprising to me if Jewish college students were being singled out for harm as part of these protests. If you’re saying it’s happening, I believe you. I just haven’t heard of reports of this on a wide scale such that it seems to me that U.S. college campuses are unsafe for Jewish students right now. Fully with the caveat that I haven’t been following this particular issue that closely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I am Jewish.

Institutional support from the US government does not prevent Jews from being victim to 50% of religious hate crimes and more hate crimes per capita than Muslims.

And antisemitism in the US is nothing compared to Europe or the Middle East. Nothing.

The ADL estimates that 1/6th of the world’s population is antisemitic. That’s 1.09 billion people.

But I don’t think anyone is saying Jews are more unsafe than black people, for example. They’re making a specific assertion about college campuses.

As a parent of a Muslim Palestinian child on a U.S. Ivy League campus, I have to agree with you. My child has witnessed both verbal abuse of Jewish students because they’re Jewish and expressing horror at the terrorist attacks in the Israel. My child has also been verbally abused by students and professors because he expressed horror at the deaths of children in Gaza. It seems like people are quick to call the other side a terrorist when all they’re doing is expressing extreme pain at the senseless violence and death.

Oddly enough, the person who came to his door to give him a hug and say that she is a safe place to express his pain — she is Jewish. We parents cried tears of relief that he and this young lady can hear each other.

I have a hard time believing that anyone attacked your son for expressing concerns about Gazan civilians.

You’d have a hard time listening to what was said. I’ve seen it here on this board and on Facebook. People hear Palestinian and sympathy with Gazans, and they call him a Hamas sympathizer and terrorist. They’ve told him to leave this country and go home. He was born in the US. And of course, we cant go home because we’re not allowed to move back wheee our family is from.

I take the Jewish posters at their word when they describe verbal abuse. I think I deserve that too.

I can believe your son has suffered discrimination. I absolutely do not believe that he was called a “terrorist” on a college campus just for expressing sympathy with Gazan civilians. He said or did something else that was interpreted as a call to destroy Israel. Some of the kids chanting “from the ricer to the sea” may not understand what they were saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is a scary time to be a Jew in the west, and particularly on campus.
And that does not mean that it's not scary to be a civilian in Gaza, or that there are never Islamophobic crimes in the west.

But anti-semitism is everywhere right now, and if you claim it's not, you're deliberately ignoring it.

And FWIW, on Jewish online forums, a large number of people are talking about moving to Israel. Because they feel that they'd be safer there.

I am sorry you feel this way. It’s interesting to me that you say this, because it seems to me (as a non-Jewish person) that there is a ton of institutional support for Israel and it’s cause in the West. The USG has basically pledged undying support and loyalty to Israel, buildings have been lit up in blue and white to show support, companies are making statements, etc. The public support I see for Palestinians is limited to rallies and statements made by college groups (which are quickly denounced and the students doxxed). Some of those are very clearly antisemitic or involve hate speech, but generally I see more support in the U.S. for Israel.

Sincerely, could you please elaborate on how/why you feel that your safety as a Jew in the United States is personally threatened? I think all hate speech and hateful acts are totally unacceptable and should be prosecuted, to be clear. I’m just curious as to how the antisemitism you’ve seen in the past month is more alarming than casual racism in the U.S. against people of color or anti-gay sentiment, or hateful sentiment against any group (which all also exists). It shouldn’t, but it does, and there’s nasty rhetoric and hate crimes against all of those groups. But I wouldn’t say generally that members of any of those groups (racial minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, Jews) are baseline unsafe in the U.S.

I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith, but I'm just too tired to explain it anymore. And those who don't believe it tend not to believe it no matter what I say. But I am a progressive myself and I believe any minority group, and women, when they say they feel unsafe. I would only ask that if you give others the benefit of the doubt, that you give it to Jews as well.

YES.

Does any other minority group have to constantly justify that we are indeed telling the truth about being discriminated against?

Do you think we fking LIKE this???

Do you think I like having to explain to my kid what a swastika is because it was drawn yet again on our synagogue? Or why we have a cop there, but the church around the corner doesn’t?

Give me a fking break.

[Anonymous]

This is why aliens arent coming to check us out. We are way to stupid as a species! I mean we just kill and kill some more. There's no winner and no retribution, no justice and no peace after war. There's just death, bad blood, more killing after by the other side. Nobody wants to suffer or have their loved ones die. Why human beings just can't withhold the urge to kill each other is the reason why we will ultimately destroy ourselves. We are such a hopeless species. If there is intelligent life in the universe they are probably rolling their eyes and laughing at our nonsense. History repeats ad nauseum. So sad. So pitiful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I'll go out on a bit of a limb, fully prepared to see it get cut off at any minute, and say that we may have to start reconciling ourselves to Hamas surviving this thing. Israel and the US seem to be losing their appetite for a ground war. As progress is made towards releasing the hostages, a ground war will probably be continued to be pushed back. It is questionable how long Israel can continue to keep its reserves mobilized but just sitting around. Ultimately, calmer heads may prevail and there will be some sort of negotiated ceasefire and life goes back to normal.

The counter argument to this is that the minute it is clear the worst is over, Netanyahu will be kicked out and likely headed for jail. So, he may prefer to keep hostilities going for as long as possible.

I’ve been following this conflict closely for over 25 years, as a white Christian American. I think you’re probably right, but with the important point that ultimately this isn’t about Hamas. There was conflict before Hamas emerged in 1987 and will be conflict after Hamas is crushed.

The conflict will continue until the Palestinians either get enough of their rights recognized that they can live with it … or they’re exterminated in a final solution.

Hamas is a straw man. A deadly one, an unacceptable one. But the issue is fundamentally about rights.

Please stop using language like “a final solution.”

Tell you Zionist friends to stop the genocide and I’ll be happy to comply.

I don’t know anyone in the Israeli government.

Do you think we Jews have some secret hotline where we can all communicate with one another?

Enough with the implicit accusations of antisemitism. There is an actual genocide happening as we type. This is about bombs and eradication of an entire people. You may not have a problem with that, but I do.

You told me to tell my “Zionist friends” to stop the “genocide.” How in the holy hell do you expect me to do that?!

Most Zionists in the US are not Jewish. Many Jews are not Zionists. I have a problem with Zionism. I have no problem with Judaism or Jewish culture. It’s the particular political philosophy as applied in the MidEast that I object to. This genocide is being fought for and by Zionists. Just last week I marched with thousands of Jews who say the same thing I am saying here.

When you continue to use the word "genocide" against Jewish people, you have lost the plot.
You do not understand the meaning of the word. You totally discredit yourself.

When you tell a Palestinian that there is no genocide, you show that you don’t know the facts. You don’t see the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dead bodies. Entire families. Massacre after massacre. Carpet bombing population areas. Cutting off water and electricity as if you own them. The Netanyahu regime knows that it is committing genocide and wants your support. Will you give it to him?