The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

It’s funny that, for Albie and Portia, they both found upgrades from what they could give each other and it turns out both of those upgrades are actually just sex workers pretending to be the kind of people they want

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.

And Harper is dying for affection from her husband, literally dying. So she is very jealous of the obvious affection and PDA and the story of how much he cried when he almost lost Daphne, like he couldn't live without her. Ethan displays ZERO emotion towards Harper, other than a look of disgust for her gossiping and her uptightness and her not wanting morning sex.

I see it as: the grass isn't always greener. There is something in each of these relationships that both women are craving. They both do not have 'the whole package' and the question is 'does anyone in life'???? There are always tradeoffs to be made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.

And Harper is dying for affection from her husband, literally dying. So she is very jealous of the obvious affection and PDA and the story of how much he cried when he almost lost Daphne, like he couldn't live without her. Ethan displays ZERO emotion towards Harper, other than a look of disgust for her gossiping and her uptightness and her not wanting morning sex.

I see it as: the grass isn't always greener. There is something in each of these relationships that both women are craving. They both do not have 'the whole package' and the question is 'does anyone in life'???? There are always tradeoffs to be made.

Harper is very disturbed that Ethan would rather rub one out to porn with women that look nothing like her than have a go with her when she's right there, not away for the night. Right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny that, for Albie and Portia, they both found upgrades from what they could give each other and it turns out both of those upgrades are actually just sex workers pretending to be the kind of people they want

Shows how naive they both are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

DP

I dunno - it does not feel like the writers care that much about the audience.

I just see nearly all the characters as empty and vapid. Even the prostitutes are conveyed with little sympathy for the circumstances that led them to that life at such a young age.

The only character I find likable is played by Aubrey Plaza but I am sure the writers will mess her up soon enough …

Why do you think the writers care about the audience? This series is about making you uncomfortable not about giving the satisfaction of wrapping the story up with a bow where the bad guys get punished and the good guys rewarded. It is about how everyone is good and bad and justice is not dispersed fairly and how that is an uncomfortable truth.

Well for starters I don’t think the writers care that much about the audience and they certainly have not fleshed out your claim that all people are good and bad: most characters come off as one dimensional and cartoonish.

None of the characters are one dimensional - they are all nuanced and layered. That's the whole point of the show!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

She was great in Columbus - also in After Yang.

I actually thought she was great going from depressed/hopeless Portia to drunk/attention from Essex dude Portia. SO many women are like this. She nailed it.

+1

I don't love Portia but I find her wholly believable as a character. She's just kind of waiting for her life to start and hasn't figured out that it's her job to make that happen. She thinks Jack is the answer but he's taking advantage of the fact that she just wants someone else to come in and fix things for her. Not that different from Tanya, and actually in an interview about the show, Haley talked about the parallels between Tanya and Portia. They are both very passive and emotionally immature.

Also, the episode where Portia starts the day asking Albie to hang out so she can get away from Tanya, and then meets Jack and just sloooowly bails on Albie without ever saying that's what she's doing, in just the most cowardly way possible? I mean that's more a testament to how that episode was written and shot and edited, but it was such a good depiction of how a young person like Portia (full dislcosure, I was a young person like Portia) will let people down in just the most infuriating way possible by acting like it's beyond their control. It was just a very well done portrayal of how people can be jerks while kind of hoping you'll be okay with it and maybe even validate the jerky thing they are doing? Spot on.

+1. I'm probably more than twice Portia's age so I feel like I can look back and be honest and say I would have 1000% done the exact same thing Portia did. Very, very relatable.

Same, same, and same. I find it incredibly relatable. I don't miss that time, even if there were some fun adventures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully agree that out of this lot, Alvie and Ethan are the best guys. Alvie is my favorite. I’m not sure what is up with Ethan’s sexuality. But at least he doesn’t cheat on his wife, unlike Nonno, Dom, and Cameron, and possibly trying to murder her like Greg, or effing about with other men when he’s supposed to be meeting up with me like Essex boy. So Alvie is the best of this bunch imho.

I like Albie. I think I married an Albie, so I will be very disappointed if he turns out to be a jerk. Because so far he is nice and cute and much better then all of the other men.

Albie does come off as very non-threatening because he has extremely modern and equitable perspectives on gender and sex. However, I do take issue with how he views women and appears to be attracted to women, feeling like he needs to step in and show them what they need in a man. That behavior, in itself, is somewhat paternalistic and I don’t think it’s based in actually helping women but in feeding his own ego and his perception that he’s a nice guy. Why does he have the impulse to attach himself to women who he feels need saving? I think a more mature and experienced version of Albie would be attracted to stable women who match his level of intellect and his perspectives on the world, not prostitutes who he wants to protect from likely made up pimps.

He’s naïve and he’s trying to find his footing as a man in this world. I don’t think he’s bad for not having it all figured out, he is young. That said, though, he is far from perfect in how he views women.

I think Albie's attraction to "wounded birds" (weird thing to say upfront BTW) stems directly from his observation about how his father's cheating affects his mother and sister. He can't fix their hurt, but that's the type of women he's been most closely exposed to. And in trying to not be his father and he's not getting it entirely right.

And you know who are two actually wounded birds in this show? Daphne and Harper...

That is definitely a cringy thing to say outpouring to something when asked What your type is.
Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

This is the first time I am seeing her and I think she is playing this character superbly, such that she has made people really not like her. They are confusing the character with her.

This is the only time I’m seen her so all I k ie is she can play the young aimless lady role well. And what she looks like.

What’s she like in person or any other more challenging or really different roles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I don't think anyone disputes that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny that, for Albie and Portia, they both found upgrades from what they could give each other and it turns out both of those upgrades are actually just sex workers pretending to be the kind of people they want

Bingo

No one will hook up with Albie after seeing him make out with a known hooker all over the resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully agree that out of this lot, Alvie and Ethan are the best guys. Alvie is my favorite. I’m not sure what is up with Ethan’s sexuality. But at least he doesn’t cheat on his wife, unlike Nonno, Dom, and Cameron, and possibly trying to murder her like Greg, or effing about with other men when he’s supposed to be meeting up with me like Essex boy. So Alvie is the best of this bunch imho.

I like Albie. I think I married an Albie, so I will be very disappointed if he turns out to be a jerk. Because so far he is nice and cute and much better then all of the other men.

Albie puts women on a pedestal instead of viewing them as regular people with good and bad attributes. And that makes me nervous bc no one can stay a pedestal for long

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.

And Harper is dying for affection from her husband, literally dying. So she is very jealous of the obvious affection and PDA and the story of how much he cried when he almost lost Daphne, like he couldn't live without her. Ethan displays ZERO emotion towards Harper, other than a look of disgust for her gossiping and her uptightness and her not wanting morning sex.

I see it as: the grass isn't always greener. There is something in each of these relationships that both women are craving. They both do not have 'the whole package' and the question is 'does anyone in life'???? There are always tradeoffs to be made.

I agree that it's important to Daphne that she is the alpha female - and to be married to Cameron, who is probably the most alpha male in most scenarios. She makes a big deal out of not being a victim because she doesn't want people to pity her. I think this is why she says Harper should get a trainer - she wants Harper to be in the same as her so she won't have a one-up on her anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

DP

I dunno - it does not feel like the writers care that much about the audience.

I just see nearly all the characters as empty and vapid. Even the prostitutes are conveyed with little sympathy for the circumstances that led them to that life at such a young age.

The only character I find likable is played by Aubrey Plaza but I am sure the writers will mess her up soon enough …

Why do you think the writers care about the audience? This series is about making you uncomfortable not about giving the satisfaction of wrapping the story up with a bow where the bad guys get punished and the good guys rewarded. It is about how everyone is good and bad and justice is not dispersed fairly and how that is an uncomfortable truth.

Well for starters I don’t think the writers care that much about the audience and they certainly have not fleshed out your claim that all people are good and bad: most characters come off as one dimensional and cartoonish.

I don't agree at all. I find the characters much more nuanced and realistic than in a typical show/movie. It's a big part of what I like about the show. I mean Tanya is a little cartoonish but even she is very believable

[Anonymous]

A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully agree that out of this lot, Alvie and Ethan are the best guys. Alvie is my favorite. I’m not sure what is up with Ethan’s sexuality. But at least he doesn’t cheat on his wife, unlike Nonno, Dom, and Cameron, and possibly trying to murder her like Greg, or effing about with other men when he’s supposed to be meeting up with me like Essex boy. So Alvie is the best of this bunch imho.

I like Albie. I think I married an Albie, so I will be very disappointed if he turns out to be a jerk. Because so far he is nice and cute and much better then all of the other men.

I married an Albie too. I can relate to Harper so maybe PP who said Albie needs to find a Type A girl is kind of right!