The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Same person how? A younger version by 10 years?

So Ethan’s father is a cheating sex addict and he accidentally slept with a prostitute on a family vacation so this is how he turned out? Repressed start up millionaire married to a cynical employment lawyer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

F for fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.

And Harper is dying for affection from her husband, literally dying. So she is very jealous of the obvious affection and PDA and the story of how much he cried when he almost lost Daphne, like he couldn't live without her. Ethan displays ZERO emotion towards Harper, other than a look of disgust for her gossiping and her uptightness and her not wanting morning sex.

I see it as: the grass isn't always greener. There is something in each of these relationships that both women are craving. They both do not have 'the whole package' and the question is 'does anyone in life'???? There are always tradeoffs to be made.

Harper is very disturbed that Ethan would rather rub one out to porn with women that look nothing like her than have a go with her when she's right there, not away for the night. Right there.

I see that. Though Daphne seems less jealous of Harper’s situation. Also, Harper wants kids and her husband won’t have sex with her. So there are many things she covets in Daphne’s marriage. Now she even wants to bang her husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.

And Harper is dying for affection from her husband, literally dying. So she is very jealous of the obvious affection and PDA and the story of how much he cried when he almost lost Daphne, like he couldn't live without her. Ethan displays ZERO emotion towards Harper, other than a look of disgust for her gossiping and her uptightness and her not wanting morning sex.

I see it as: the grass isn't always greener. There is something in each of these relationships that both women are craving. They both do not have 'the whole package' and the question is 'does anyone in life'???? There are always tradeoffs to be made.

While I agree that Harper is really, really envious of the open expressions of affection, I also think she has been suspicious from the start that this is an act. And the thing is, even if that suspicion was grounded in envy and pettiness... she's right. Daphne and Cameron might have genuine affection for each other but they also have a very effed up dynamic where at least some of that affection is grounded in jealousy, possessiveness, and trying to prove something to themselves, each other, and other people.

I've known couples like Daphne and Cameron in real life. They induce a lot of envy in other people because not only are often enviable people individually (attractive, successful, rich), but people really envy that power couple dynamic. And I can understand Harper's suspicion, because as a much older person, I have seen many of these couples turn out to be not what they are cracked up to be. I think the red flag is not that they love and support each other. It's that they feel like they need other people to know. It's a sign of narcissism and "Main Character Syndrome" and it can backfire as everyone gets older and if dynamics shift in their life or relationship. It's not always true, some people are just very in love and like to share that with others. But with Daphne and Cameron it really does feel a bit over the top, a little to Instagram-ready, you know? And those are the ones I've seen take a bad turn because there actually is a reason they are working so hard to brand themselves as some kind of Prom King and Queen despite being in their 30s. There's often a lot of insecurity, fear, a desperate need for external validation, ect. The truly happy couples tend to be a bit quieter about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

I don’t understand what you mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

Like a west world past/present timeline showing at the same time? Maybe but seems very out of character for the show as a whole - plus it’s already been done very well in another show so why do it again?

Albie would grow up to be Cameron not Ethan. They’re showing us how he’s about to turn into his father and grandfather. His grandfather said it best- they normalized treating women that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

You are stupid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

Like a west world past/present timeline showing at the same time? Maybe but seems very out of character for the show as a whole - plus it’s already been done very well in another show so why do it again?

Albie would grow up to be Cameron not Ethan. They’re showing us how he’s about to turn into his father and grandfather. His grandfather said it best- they normalized treating women that way.

The above theory is definitely not right. They are all in the same year and interact with the same people and it would be dumb to make this show take a weird sci-fi turn. Also I do not think Albie and Ethan are alike or that Ethan is what Albie will be like as a grown man. Albie will likely be more like his dad than Ethan or Cameron or anyone else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Albie is so gross

I am kind of confused by the distaste for Albie in this thread. I don't find him distasteful, I actually do find him to be pretty much what you'd want out of a guy? He takes no for an answer, isn't shaming any of the women for their choices. Isn't excusing the bad behavior of the men in his life. I do think he is going to get screwed over by a woman and we will see his true colors but I don't think he's done anything bad and wonder if this is a choice in itself. Showing a non dominant but confident guy who isn't incredibly anything (not incredibly handsome or powerful or anything at all, just very average, but essentially one of the only people making good choices that don't hurt others) but who is unlikeable for some amorphous reason. A foil to Cam who from all objective measures is absolutely horrible but is SO handsome and affectionate that you have to keep reminding yourself how bad he is when he's not being blatantly terrible.

For me, the distaste is because I get the vibe that he isn't all that he seems/wants to be. He is parroting progressive/feminist ideas he heard in college but he has an underlying entitlement that you can tell is going to come out at some point.

I think he is the classic "nice guy" where he will feel like he is entitled to affection from a woman because he has done and said all the right, feminist-approved things. And he will turn nasty when he doesn't get what he thinks he deserves.

This is because he thinks Lucia truly likes him, and he likes her, and he wants to save her from being taken advantage of by other guys who are not as pure-hearted as he is. That's his perspective on it, I think.
And for all his presumed protesting about prostitution and his dad's behavior, once he'd done it himself, he got comfortable with it pretty quick. His only hesitation about it was pretty patronizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

I don't understand what you mean by Albie and Ethan are the same person. What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people offline are theorizing that Albie and Ethan are the same person and that once Cameron finds out, he's going to blow his stack and not in a good way.

I think it's an interesting theory and there have been several hints, suggestions and/or Easter eggs that seem to jive/jibe with this. There's a fresco in the background of a couple of scenes that looks like a two-headed figure blending into one. Plus both names have five letters and start with vowels. Thoughts?

I don't understand what you mean by Albie and Ethan are the same person. What?

Yeah that’s not how this show works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

DP

I dunno - it does not feel like the writers care that much about the audience.

I just see nearly all the characters as empty and vapid. Even the prostitutes are conveyed with little sympathy for the circumstances that led them to that life at such a young age.

The only character I find likable is played by Aubrey Plaza but I am sure the writers will mess her up soon enough …

Why do you think the writers care about the audience? This series is about making you uncomfortable not about giving the satisfaction of wrapping the story up with a bow where the bad guys get punished and the good guys rewarded. It is about how everyone is good and bad and justice is not dispersed fairly and how that is an uncomfortable truth.

Well for starters I don’t think the writers care that much about the audience and they certainly have not fleshed out your claim that all people are good and bad: most characters come off as one dimensional and cartoonish.

None of the characters are one dimensional - they are all nuanced and layered. That's the whole point of the show!

Are you associated with the show somehow?

I’m not feeling most of the characters except for Harper and Alvie. …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

DP

I dunno - it does not feel like the writers care that much about the audience.

I just see nearly all the characters as empty and vapid. Even the prostitutes are conveyed with little sympathy for the circumstances that led them to that life at such a young age.

The only character I find likable is played by Aubrey Plaza but I am sure the writers will mess her up soon enough …

Why do you think the writers care about the audience? This series is about making you uncomfortable not about giving the satisfaction of wrapping the story up with a bow where the bad guys get punished and the good guys rewarded. It is about how everyone is good and bad and justice is not dispersed fairly and how that is an uncomfortable truth.

Well for starters I don’t think the writers care that much about the audience and they certainly have not fleshed out your claim that all people are good and bad: most characters come off as one dimensional and cartoonish.

None of the characters are one dimensional - they are all nuanced and layered. That's the whole point of the show!

Are you associated with the show somehow?

I’m not feeling most of the characters except for Harper and Alvie. …

NP I agree with pp, I think most characters are multilayered and interesting. I don’t think Harper or Albie are any more nuanced than anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.

And Harper is dying for affection from her husband, literally dying. So she is very jealous of the obvious affection and PDA and the story of how much he cried when he almost lost Daphne, like he couldn't live without her. Ethan displays ZERO emotion towards Harper, other than a look of disgust for her gossiping and her uptightness and her not wanting morning sex.

I see it as: the grass isn't always greener. There is something in each of these relationships that both women are craving. They both do not have 'the whole package' and the question is 'does anyone in life'???? There are always tradeoffs to be made.

While I agree that Harper is really, really envious of the open expressions of affection, I also think she has been suspicious from the start that this is an act. And the thing is, even if that suspicion was grounded in envy and pettiness... she's right. Daphne and Cameron might have genuine affection for each other but they also have a very effed up dynamic where at least some of that affection is grounded in jealousy, possessiveness, and trying to prove something to themselves, each other, and other people.

I've known couples like Daphne and Cameron in real life. They induce a lot of envy in other people because not only are often enviable people individually (attractive, successful, rich), but people really envy that power couple dynamic. And I can understand Harper's suspicion, because as a much older person, I have seen many of these couples turn out to be not what they are cracked up to be. I think the red flag is not that they love and support each other. It's that they feel like they need other people to know. It's a sign of narcissism and "Main Character Syndrome" and it can backfire as everyone gets older and if dynamics shift in their life or relationship. It's not always true, some people are just very in love and like to share that with others. But with Daphne and Cameron it really does feel a bit over the top, a little to Instagram-ready, you know? And those are the ones I've seen take a bad turn because there actually is a reason they are working so hard to brand themselves as some kind of Prom King and Queen despite being in their 30s. There's often a lot of insecurity, fear, a desperate need for external validation, ect. The truly happy couples tend to be a bit quieter about it.

Possibly. In my neighborhood there are way more bitter women married to men like Ethan that don’t have sex with them. Over the years they turn more and more nasty and gossipy. Think of the stereotypical Karen. It’s like they take the frustration out from not getting laid and not getting affection on r wry one else. And they also send the happy Holiday photo cards. They just don’t look happy in the photo. Anyone that has a positive outlook or an affectionate husband really pisses them off.

[Anonymous]

Not even a comparison with the first season. The actors are boring. The sons great attraction to a rather plain girl he meets on a one week vacation is not believable.
The old woman who finds the gay crowd is OK but way too much of her. A little to much “being gay is more fun…”
Nothing much is really happening. And no subtitles for all the mumbling. It’s at C- so disappointing.