The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

She was great in Columbus - also in After Yang.

I actually thought she was great going from depressed/hopeless Portia to drunk/attention from Essex dude Portia. SO many women are like this. She nailed it.

[Anonymous]

I am obsessed with this show.

That is all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Albie is so gross

I am kind of confused by the distaste for Albie in this thread. I don't find him distasteful, I actually do find him to be pretty much what you'd want out of a guy? He takes no for an answer, isn't shaming any of the women for their choices. Isn't excusing the bad behavior of the men in his life. I do think he is going to get screwed over by a woman and we will see his true colors but I don't think he's done anything bad and wonder if this is a choice in itself. Showing a non dominant but confident guy who isn't incredibly anything (not incredibly handsome or powerful or anything at all, just very average, but essentially one of the only people making good choices that don't hurt others) but who is unlikeable for some amorphous reason. A foil to Cam who from all objective measures is absolutely horrible but is SO handsome and affectionate that you have to keep reminding yourself how bad he is when he's not being blatantly terrible.

For me, the distaste is because I get the vibe that he isn't all that he seems/wants to be. He is parroting progressive/feminist ideas he heard in college but he has an underlying entitlement that you can tell is going to come out at some point.

I think he is the classic "nice guy" where he will feel like he is entitled to affection from a woman because he has done and said all the right, feminist-approved things. And he will turn nasty when he doesn't get what he thinks he deserves.

I do not think Albie is some complex incel character that is going to snap.

He’s exactly what he and his mom said: a nice kid. A person who takes in wounded bird girls. Well, the latter is not good.

He just needs a nice type A girl that doesn’t charge him €2000 a night and uses protection.

I would have loved the contrast of some Type A investment banker analyst coming to the resort to scuba dive with her family, sitting next to Albie, he says HI, and she says, Aren’t you always making out with that hooker? No thanks, not my style. And walk off to another beach chair.

Yes the Albie type usually ends up with a Type A intelligent woman. He does not marry into a savior role and expect her to be a healthy wife, mother, homemaker and employed in a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully agree that out of this lot, Alvie and Ethan are the best guys. Alvie is my favorite. I’m not sure what is up with Ethan’s sexuality. But at least he doesn’t cheat on his wife, unlike Nonno, Dom, and Cameron, and possibly trying to murder her like Greg, or effing about with other men when he’s supposed to be meeting up with me like Essex boy. So Alvie is the best of this bunch imho.

I like Albie. I think I married an Albie, so I will be very disappointed if he turns out to be a jerk. Because so far he is nice and cute and much better then all of the other men.

Albie does come off as very non-threatening because he has extremely modern and equitable perspectives on gender and sex. However, I do take issue with how he views women and appears to be attracted to women, feeling like he needs to step in and show them what they need in a man. That behavior, in itself, is somewhat paternalistic and I don’t think it’s based in actually helping women but in feeding his own ego and his perception that he’s a nice guy. Why does he have the impulse to attach himself to women who he feels need saving? I think a more mature and experienced version of Albie would be attracted to stable women who match his level of intellect and his perspectives on the world, not prostitutes who he wants to protect from likely made up pimps.

He’s naïve and he’s trying to find his footing as a man in this world. I don’t think he’s bad for not having it all figured out, he is young. That said, though, he is far from perfect in how he views women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

She was great in Columbus - also in After Yang.

Agree, I think the actress is playing the part perfectly.

I actually thought she was great going from depressed/hopeless Portia to drunk/attention from Essex dude Portia. SO many women are like this. She nailed it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

DP

I dunno - it does not feel like the writers care that much about the audience.

I just see nearly all the characters as empty and vapid. Even the prostitutes are conveyed with little sympathy for the circumstances that led them to that life at such a young age.

The only character I find likable is played by Aubrey Plaza but I am sure the writers will mess her up soon enough …

Why do you think the writers care about the audience? This series is about making you uncomfortable not about giving the satisfaction of wrapping the story up with a bow where the bad guys get punished and the good guys rewarded. It is about how everyone is good and bad and justice is not dispersed fairly and how that is an uncomfortable truth.

Well for starters I don’t think the writers care that much about the audience and they certainly have not fleshed out your claim that all people are good and bad: most characters come off as one dimensional and cartoonish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

She was great in Columbus - also in After Yang.

I actually thought she was great going from depressed/hopeless Portia to drunk/attention from Essex dude Portia. SO many women are like this. She nailed it.

+1

I don't love Portia but I find her wholly believable as a character. She's just kind of waiting for her life to start and hasn't figured out that it's her job to make that happen. She thinks Jack is the answer but he's taking advantage of the fact that she just wants someone else to come in and fix things for her. Not that different from Tanya, and actually in an interview about the show, Haley talked about the parallels between Tanya and Portia. They are both very passive and emotionally immature.

Also, the episode where Portia starts the day asking Albie to hang out so she can get away from Tanya, and then meets Jack and just sloooowly bails on Albie without ever saying that's what she's doing, in just the most cowardly way possible? I mean that's more a testament to how that episode was written and shot and edited, but it was such a good depiction of how a young person like Portia (full dislcosure, I was a young person like Portia) will let people down in just the most infuriating way possible by acting like it's beyond their control. It was just a very well done portrayal of how people can be jerks while kind of hoping you'll be okay with it and maybe even validate the jerky thing they are doing? Spot on.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One thing about Ethan's culpability from that night is that we actually saw what unfolded whereas Harper did not.

It's one thing for me to watch those scenes and conclude "Ethan shouldn't have let Cameron into his room with those girls, but he didn't cheat and was pretty firm in choosing not to when presented with a very clear opportunity to do so."

It's entirely different for Harper to TRUST that's the case based on the limited amount of information that Ethan has provided to her, after initially lying to her about what happened.

So I think from an empirical standpoint, Ethan didn't do anything I would consider a violation of wedding vows that night. But I also think Harper is 100% justified in her anger, and not just because he initially lied (but that makes it so much worse). Like one of the reasons that Ethan shouldn't have let Cameron and the girls into his room is because he should have been thinking about how that situation would SOUND to his wife if/when she heard about it. He knew going in that Harper would be uncomfortable with that, would wonder why he felt the need to party with Cameron and these prostitutes when every other night of the vacation he has just sat in bed working on his computer. In context, that was a betrayal even though he "technically" did nothing wrong. And he should have known that.

The fact that he went along with the partying even when he could have just gone to bed or gone somewhere else indicates that maybe, on some level, he was contemplating hooking up with one of the girls and wanted to keep the option open.

These are the kinds of things that would be running through my mind if I were Harper at this point. Ethan didn't cheat but he also didn't act like someone who never had any intention of cheating. In a marriage, intentions matter a lot because fidelity is basically just intention until you finally die and can look back and see if it worked.

I would say two hookers in your hotel room while I’m out of town is grounds for divorce but I guess I’m old fashioned.

Shut up

I agree with the previous pp, in principle. Sleeping with a hooker IRL, shows a level of depravity that would be loathsome. The value of staying with such a scumbag would become 100% transactional. Even if I previously loved the guy. I would make a calculation based on whether I could afford to divorce him--duh. I'm a lawyer, so he would be 💀 in the water. Only the most helpless and god-awfully damaged woman* would allow her children to be raised by a man who would dishonor the marital relationship this way and stay married to a man who would be with a prostitute (unless by mutual agreement--which could still be coercive), IRL, unless because of factors beyond her control, she is financially dependent on him.

I know this sounds like a hard and fast rule (and many of us seem to like Lucia because she seems clean and pretty), but IRL, this would never fly with me.

*I say woman because my perception is that within gay male culture, infidelity with a prostitute is more tolerated, particularly where there is a substantial age gap between the partners in the main relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

She was great in Columbus - also in After Yang.

I actually thought she was great going from depressed/hopeless Portia to drunk/attention from Essex dude Portia. SO many women are like this. She nailed it.

+1

I don't love Portia but I find her wholly believable as a character. She's just kind of waiting for her life to start and hasn't figured out that it's her job to make that happen. She thinks Jack is the answer but he's taking advantage of the fact that she just wants someone else to come in and fix things for her. Not that different from Tanya, and actually in an interview about the show, Haley talked about the parallels between Tanya and Portia. They are both very passive and emotionally immature.

Also, the episode where Portia starts the day asking Albie to hang out so she can get away from Tanya, and then meets Jack and just sloooowly bails on Albie without ever saying that's what she's doing, in just the most cowardly way possible? I mean that's more a testament to how that episode was written and shot and edited, but it was such a good depiction of how a young person like Portia (full dislcosure, I was a young person like Portia) will let people down in just the most infuriating way possible by acting like it's beyond their control. It was just a very well done portrayal of how people can be jerks while kind of hoping you'll be okay with it and maybe even validate the jerky thing they are doing? Spot on.

+1. I'm probably more than twice Portia's age so I feel like I can look back and be honest and say I would have 1000% done the exact same thing Portia did. Very, very relatable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some people have hesitations about Albie because he is a sweet guy who is attracted to, as he puts it, wounded birds. I think a lot of adult women would not want to be viewed as a wounded bird and would want men to be attracted to them because they admire and respect them, not because the man believes that he needs to save them. I don’t think Albie is evil or anything but I do understand why his savior energy puts some women off… women who don’t feel like they need to be saved might find this kind of behavior grating and possibly condescending. His mentality also puts him at risk in the scenario with Lucia, she is aware of his desire to save her and can manipulate and take advantage of that and it seems likely will.

He's definitely finding his way. I noticed when he was chatting with Portia he said he graduated college in "the San Francisco area", not Stanford. Portia called him out on that.

But when he is introducing himself to Lucia he clearly says "I graduated from Stanford."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I fully agree that out of this lot, Alvie and Ethan are the best guys. Alvie is my favorite. I’m not sure what is up with Ethan’s sexuality. But at least he doesn’t cheat on his wife, unlike Nonno, Dom, and Cameron, and possibly trying to murder her like Greg, or effing about with other men when he’s supposed to be meeting up with me like Essex boy. So Alvie is the best of this bunch imho.

I like Albie. I think I married an Albie, so I will be very disappointed if he turns out to be a jerk. Because so far he is nice and cute and much better then all of the other men.

Albie does come off as very non-threatening because he has extremely modern and equitable perspectives on gender and sex. However, I do take issue with how he views women and appears to be attracted to women, feeling like he needs to step in and show them what they need in a man. That behavior, in itself, is somewhat paternalistic and I don’t think it’s based in actually helping women but in feeding his own ego and his perception that he’s a nice guy. Why does he have the impulse to attach himself to women who he feels need saving? I think a more mature and experienced version of Albie would be attracted to stable women who match his level of intellect and his perspectives on the world, not prostitutes who he wants to protect from likely made up pimps.

He’s naïve and he’s trying to find his footing as a man in this world. I don’t think he’s bad for not having it all figured out, he is young. That said, though, he is far from perfect in how he views women.

I think Albie's attraction to "wounded birds" (weird thing to say upfront BTW) stems directly from his observation about how his father's cheating affects his mother and sister. He can't fix their hurt, but that's the type of women he's been most closely exposed to. And in trying to not be his father and he's not getting it entirely right.

And you know who are two actually wounded birds in this show? Daphne and Harper...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

No, he didn't. He behaved badly, but most of it was by being adjacent to Cameron. Ethan is so passive--do you honestly think he was the impetus behind finding the girls, flirting with them, inviting them back to their room, and undressing them? He was just high and drunk and along for the ride. He rejected Mia's overtures.

I get the sense that Ethan is not normally this passive, and that his passive behavior towards Cameron on this trip is a big part of what is unsettling Harper. I think normally, Ethan is probably pretty direct and opinionated (he built and sold a tech business that has made them incredibly rich, he's probably not a pushover). I also bet that normally he and Harper are both kind of caustic and critical of people they think are less intelligent than them. You get glimpses of this. They seem like a couple who was attracted to each other for being curious, intelligent, and aware. They sit in bed and read books and work on their computers. They probably talk about work a lot and love that they both are so good at and interested in their jobs. I get the sense that if the met some random couple on a vacation and that couple was like "we don't vote or read! I love Dateline and we're friends with Jeff Bezos!" Ethan would be right there with Harper in skewering them later that night as vapid and stupid.

But he's not doing that with Cameron and keep suggesting they are "fun". And you can tell Harper is just like "who are you and what did you do with my husband?" Like I just get the sense based on her interactions with him that he is acting VERY unusually. What reads as her being super negative and unpleasant to him is actually her being confused and frustrated because normally they'd cackle about the dump rich couple from dinner and instead he's suddenly defending them. Is it because he's newly rich and wants to be the dumb rich couple? Or is it because he's distracted by this longstanding beef with Cameron that is consuming him and making him withdraw into himself? It's very unclear. But I think normally Ethan would be rolling his eyes right along with Harper and they'd probably bond over their shared sense of superiority. Harper is frustrated that's not happening and it's making her feel very distant from her husband during a huge shift in their financial circumstances due to his job, not hers. And it's making her insecure.

Cameran did him once. The porn is his attempt at self therapy.

I've wondered about this. The scene with Cameron and Ethan in bed, where Cameron is "coming on" to Ethan is played as a joke, but Ethan didn't look amused.

It seemed very weird to me- like beyond a joke.

I believe they have slept together in the past and also that it is possible they may have slept together the evening with Lucia and Mia. They just didn’t show us.

Interesting theory. There was definitely some weirdness there. I thought it was Cameron asserting his dominance and kind of humiliating Ethan as a power move but it could be more.

I believe there definitely is homoerotism there--but that they never acted on it (á là Kavanaugh's 'devil's triangle', which is much more like acting on it, for sure). IRL behavior would probably involve flashing and titillating each other while dressing (the way Cam did with Harper) Cam jerking it in his bed while the Ethan is jerking it in his and pretending it didn't happen the next day. In other words juvenile homoerotics that so-called 'straight' dudes sometimes do, ha!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fully agree that out of this lot, Alvie and Ethan are the best guys. Alvie is my favorite. I’m not sure what is up with Ethan’s sexuality. But at least he doesn’t cheat on his wife, unlike Nonno, Dom, and Cameron, and possibly trying to murder her like Greg, or effing about with other men when he’s supposed to be meeting up with me like Essex boy. So Alvie is the best of this bunch imho.

I like Albie. I think I married an Albie, so I will be very disappointed if he turns out to be a jerk. Because so far he is nice and cute and much better then all of the other men.

Albie does come off as very non-threatening because he has extremely modern and equitable perspectives on gender and sex. However, I do take issue with how he views women and appears to be attracted to women, feeling like he needs to step in and show them what they need in a man. That behavior, in itself, is somewhat paternalistic and I don’t think it’s based in actually helping women but in feeding his own ego and his perception that he’s a nice guy. Why does he have the impulse to attach himself to women who he feels need saving? I think a more mature and experienced version of Albie would be attracted to stable women who match his level of intellect and his perspectives on the world, not prostitutes who he wants to protect from likely made up pimps.

He’s naïve and he’s trying to find his footing as a man in this world. I don’t think he’s bad for not having it all figured out, he is young. That said, though, he is far from perfect in how he views women.

The psychology is that he's trying to save them which he couldn't do with his mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

I think people like to think that a person is happy or sad. When in reality people are usually not so easily organized. Daphne I think is happier than she is sad, and accepts these issues as worth the price of her life. I think she is very happy with some things, with how he loves her, their kids, their lifestyle, and unhappy about others. But I go to work in an unfulfilling job every day to make all the parts of my life I love work, and I think she views this similarly. Life is complex and a series of trade offs, some lives moreso than others.

I think the people who are struggling with this show in the comments here are just people who struggle with ambiguity.

I agree. I am also a little bit fixated on her bull elephant comments because I think they were very telling. She wants to be the mom elephant with her baby elephants laughing and splashing and she does feel sad for the bull elephant males that are wandering alone, out there thinking they are doing something important but really missing out on the joy that is thriving with their families. She also does see their behavior as a biological imperative not as a choice, it’s the way the pods are structured. So, I don’t think she is happy with what Cameron does but I think she is happy with the role that she has and has no desire to be separated from her kids and not living a life of luxury and ease.

I think she is happy with Cameron and loves him and that is part of the conundrum. She does not love or feel good about what he does on the side, but she wants him as her 'bull elephant'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

Agree that Portia is not a great actress.

Portia is a character on a television show. She is not an actress. You may not like her character -- I often find her grating. However, I also think that is how she was written.

Haley Lou Richardson is an actress who plays Portia on the television show White Lotus. She has played characters in a number of movies. She is good in the Edge of Seventeen but my favorite is the Kogonada film Columbus, where she plays opposite John Cho. It's a big role and she's really good in it. She has a lot more range as an actress than I would expect given her looks, which are very girl-next-door.

I think it's interesting that the PP's least favorite characters are all the young women with limited power and options. I am not sure PP understands the underlying themes of the show, just as I am not sure you understand that Portia is a character, not an actress.

This is the first time I am seeing her and I think she is playing this character superbly, such that she has made people really not like her. They are confusing the character with her.