Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.

There was a Hamas command center next to the church. Would your recommendation be that Israel just leave the command center be?

Former rep. Amash's relatives were not members of Hamas. They didn't need to die. You're the king of false dilemmas.

I’m not sure you’re clear on what collateral damage is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, these posts are talking about Jews, not specifically Israelis.

So all Jews are to be sent somewhere? Including my family?

Grow up. You spend the entire discussion conflating the Israeli military as “defending all Jews” and necessary for the “safety of all Jews” yet when anyone follows your lead in using the same terminology, you yell anti-semitism and try to pretend people are talking about Jewish families in Bethesda.

Get over yourself.

If someone responds to “Israel needs to bomb all of Gaza to protect all Jews” the response of “Maybe those Jews should leave if they need to commit genocide to feel safe.” is not directed at you in NOVA or DC or wherever.

This is getting cynical and nobody is buying it anymore. Nobody thinks Israelis have the right to commit genocide. It’s not antisemitic to say that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

But let’s be clear on what happened:

2000: Camp David accords, which Arafat walked away from

Second Intifada happened as the result of that failure

That ended in Feb 2005, in part because Israel withdrew from Gaza.

Gaza held elections in 2005, and Hamas was elected.

"Territorial contiguity
In the proposed Palestinian state, Gaza Strip would be discontinuous from the West Bank. The degree to which the West Bank itself would be dis-contiguous is disputed. Noam Chomsky writes that the West Bank would have been divided into three cantons and Palestinian East Jerusalem would have constituted the fourth canton; all 4 cantons would be separated from one another by Israeli territory.[13] Other sources also said that the proposed West Bank would be divided into three cantons.[14][15][16] By contrast, Ehud Barak said the West Bank would only be divided by a wedge of Israeli territory stretching from Maale Adumim to the Jordan River, but would otherwise be continuous.[17]

The Palestinians reacted strongly negatively to the proposed cantonization of the West Bank into three blocs, which the Palestinian delegation likened to South African Bantustans, a loaded word that was disputed by the Israeli and American negotiators.[18] Settlement blocs, bypassed roads and annexed lands would create barriers between Nablus and Jenin with Ramallah. The Ramallah bloc would in turn be divided from Bethlehem and Hebron. A separate and smaller bloc would contain Jericho. Further, the border between West Bank and Jordan would additionally be under Israeli control. The Palestinian Authority would receive pockets of East Jerusalem which would be surrounded entirely by annexed lands in the West Bank.[19]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

I can't imagine why they walked away from that deal.

Arafat walked away because allowing a third party to manage Jerusalem is so repugnant to hard line Islamo-fasacists that he feared his political career would be over if he signed it.

He chickened out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, these posts are talking about Jews, not specifically Israelis.

So all Jews are to be sent somewhere? Including my family?

Grow up. You spend the entire discussion conflating the Israeli military as “defending all Jews” and necessary for the “safety of all Jews” yet when anyone follows your lead in using the same terminology, you yell anti-semitism and try to pretend people are talking about Jewish families in Bethesda.

Get over yourself.

If someone responds to “Israel needs to bomb all of Gaza to protect all Jews” the response of “Maybe those Jews should leave if they need to commit genocide to feel safe.” is not directed at you in NOVA or DC or wherever.

This is getting cynical and nobody is buying it anymore. Nobody thinks Israelis have the right to commit genocide. It’s not antisemitic to say that.

You fail at nuance.

Having Israel exist does help protect Jews around the world.

That doesn’t mean Jews deserve to be displaced because of what the Israeli government does.

And no one said “those Jews.” They said “maybe we should send Jews to Alaska.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Israel is quickly losing the moral high Israelis have killed thousands of Palestinian children--how many of those were Hamas? I get that innocents are accidentally killed in war, but Israel's strategy is to kill Palestinians--including exploding buildings with babies and elderly--as an excuse for routing out Hamas. There is no interpretation of just war that allows for the ratio of civilians to militants killed to be that high. NONE.
Israel has blood on its hands now. Reasonable people understood the horror of Hamas' killing of Israeli civilians. The same reasonable people also see that what Israel's killing of hundreds, if not thousands, of children of Gaza is morally reprehensible and not justifiable under any circumstance. Schande.

Please provide a citation for your assertion that that’s Israel’s strategy.

Otherwise I’ll just assume you’re talking out of your ass.

What is Israel's strategy? How many of the hundreds, if not thousands, of Palestinians killed by Israelis are Hamas militants? And let's assume that half of those killed are babies, toddlers, children. How many humans have Israelis killed in Gaza are Hamas? How many are civliians?

Hamas could defend their people if they weren’t such cowards hiding behind their women and children. Encourage Hamas to crawl out of their tunnels and engage the IDF in a fight. You know they won’t because they simply view their people as pawns to be used to further their brutality.

So answer the questions, or are you admitting that the IDF is knowingly killing far more civilians than Hamas militants? That is a war crime. And yes, Hamas is despicable, but Israel should not respond by committing war crimes in return.

Hamas is knowingly and willingly using its own people to cower behind. They are the ones condemning the Palestinians of Gaza to death all because they are frightened of Israelis. The war crime is entirely theirs.
Encourage Hamas’ fighters to emerge from hiding behind their women and children. Hamas won’t of course because they don’t value the lives of their own innocents.
Hamas are cowards who can do nothing but destroy the lives of innocents.

Again, Israel should not be committing war crimes by killing a disproportionate number of civilians to militants. You are so blinded that you cannot see that the IDF are committing war crimes. War crimes are never justified; even if your enemy is committing them. Hamas as committed atrocious war crimes, but you do not seem to understand that Israel is not morally in the right by decimating hundreds of innocent children in Gaza as "collateral" damage.

Hamas should then emerge from hiding and fight. But everyone knows they are cowards who will just as eagerly sacrifice the lives of Israeli innocents as they will their own women and children who they force to shield them and their worthless lives.
Did you expect anything less though from the government of Hamas whose own charter only classifies women as the bearers of men?

Hamas did emerge to fight in Israel. They only took all those hostages over to Gaza because according to people at the kibbutz, cops and military didn’t arrive for hours.

When they finally did emerge, Israelis that (Hamas had taken as shields) were also being killed in the crossfire .

One of the poor hostages , the 85 year old woman, said Hamas sent balloons and threats in the days or weeks prior so there were was a warning And Israel knew this attack was coming.

I would assume anything she says and does publicly is because her husband is still a hostage. I would not believe anything she says because it is under duress.

And if her husband compliments Hamas too, then what? Stockholm syndrome?

Please tell me you’re not trying to argue that they truly had a nice experience with Hamas.

There’s nothing nice about being captured by a kill squad but humane treatment -yes. That is what she is saying . She also said the kibbutz got several warnings in the weeks prior of Hamas’ entry and they were ignored by the Shin Bet and IDF. I also believe her 100%.

What reason would she have to lie? She’s fully cognizant and isn’t senile

So Hamas won’t execute her husband.

Hamas never executes or
Tortures any Israeli held hostage. Even Gilad Shalit , an IDF soldier, who was held for five years by Hamas said that he was treated humanely . Hamas claims to follow Islamic
Rules regarding treating captives humanely whatever that means

I actually think Hezbollah and the Lebanese front is actually a bigger problem for Israel . I think they are crazier than Hamas

I see. So if you are lucky enough to be captured rather than being a Thai farm worker slowly beheaded by a garden hoe, the people who did the beheading will treat you just fine and won’t torture you. Good to know.

They beheaded someone with a garden hoe? I know atrocities occurred, but I haven't gone deeply down that rabbit hole (for my own mental/emotional health). Not denying it, just appalled.

Yes. And they did it slowly. A day or two ago the video was still on Twitter, and I believe is widely available elsewhere if you look, although I don’t recommend it as I cannot unsee it. The Thai farm worker was visibly struggling in between each blow.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?

No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0

Or whether they’re German or British, right?

Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.

I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.

So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.

No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.

Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.

There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.

For 17 years they have blockaded Gaza. So whatever you want to call it, they are hardly free.

Does South Korea occupy North Korea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.

There was a Hamas command center next to the church. Would your recommendation be that Israel just leave the command center be?

Former rep. Amash's relatives were not members of Hamas. They didn't need to die. You're the king of false dilemmas.

I’m not sure you’re clear on what collateral damage is.

You think you sound smart and witty, but that actually says more about your lack of comprehensive abilities than mine. You're really just smarmily trying to justify the deaths of innocent family members of U.S. government officials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Why don't we send the Jews to Alaska instead?

And here we have it . . . the conflation of Jews and Israel.

Just be honest -- you hate Jews. Admitting it out loud will be good for you. It's a first step. Maybe you an take some FMLA and go join Hezbollah or PIJ or Hamas. Act out your violent fantasies. Die a martyr. Have fun!

You should have picked up that that person is likely Jewish or pro-Israeli and that it was a sarcastic historical reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

But let’s be clear on what happened:

2000: Camp David accords, which Arafat walked away from

Second Intifada happened as the result of that failure

That ended in Feb 2005, in part because Israel withdrew from Gaza.

Gaza held elections in 2005, and Hamas was elected.

"Territorial contiguity
In the proposed Palestinian state, Gaza Strip would be discontinuous from the West Bank. The degree to which the West Bank itself would be dis-contiguous is disputed. Noam Chomsky writes that the West Bank would have been divided into three cantons and Palestinian East Jerusalem would have constituted the fourth canton; all 4 cantons would be separated from one another by Israeli territory.[13] Other sources also said that the proposed West Bank would be divided into three cantons.[14][15][16] By contrast, Ehud Barak said the West Bank would only be divided by a wedge of Israeli territory stretching from Maale Adumim to the Jordan River, but would otherwise be continuous.[17]

The Palestinians reacted strongly negatively to the proposed cantonization of the West Bank into three blocs, which the Palestinian delegation likened to South African Bantustans, a loaded word that was disputed by the Israeli and American negotiators.[18] Settlement blocs, bypassed roads and annexed lands would create barriers between Nablus and Jenin with Ramallah. The Ramallah bloc would in turn be divided from Bethlehem and Hebron. A separate and smaller bloc would contain Jericho. Further, the border between West Bank and Jordan would additionally be under Israeli control. The Palestinian Authority would receive pockets of East Jerusalem which would be surrounded entirely by annexed lands in the West Bank.[19]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

I can't imagine why they walked away from that deal.

Israel also would not be contiguous.

Facts are hard.

Only the empty border between Palestine and Jordan that they didn’t want Palestine to control wouldn’t have been contiguous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.

There was a Hamas command center next to the church. Would your recommendation be that Israel just leave the command center be?

Former rep. Amash's relatives were not members of Hamas. They didn't need to die. You're the king of false dilemmas.

I’m not sure you’re clear on what collateral damage is.

Collateral damage is warfare propaganda by countries that are not held accountable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?

No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0

Or whether they’re German or British, right?

Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.

I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.

So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.

No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.

Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.

There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.

For 17 years they have blockaded Gaza. So whatever you want to call it, they are hardly free.

Does South Korea occupy North Korea?

Are North Korean ships free to sail in and out of the country? Can foreign planes fly to and from the country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?

No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0

Or whether they’re German or British, right?

Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.

I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.

So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.

No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.

Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.

There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.

For 17 years they have blockaded Gaza. So whatever you want to call it, they are hardly free.

Does South Korea occupy North Korea?

Are North Korean ships free to sail in and out of the country? Can foreign planes fly to and from the country?

I think you’re missing the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is happening all over the world -- at NYU at Columbia, and here in London. These are not simply pro-Palestinian protesters calling for peace, for statehood -- which I get and respect.

These people pulling down posters everywhere are AGAINST supporting kidnapped hostages. They are handmaidens of Hamas.

Completely undermines the argument that they are pro-peace and only want Palestinian suffering to end.

They are anti-civilization.

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1712527878774997234

More "pro-Palestinians" pulling posters down.

Guess “we” should arrest them and their families. No trial needed, no proof…just someone on Twitter doxxing them. Good enough. Let’s make the USA just like Gaza and the West Bank!

I'd also tear them down. These people aren't missing in Miami so why post their pictures in Miami?

You would seriously tear down a poster of a missing 4 year old just because he’s not missing in the USA?

What's the purpose of these posters? The 4 year old is not missing, we know exactly where they are being held. What additional information or tips is anyone expecting from residents of Miami?
Why is propaganda and domestic issues of a foreign nation plastered on American cities? I don't see posters of the thousands of Gaza children missing or of the millions of others missing around the world.

I may not agree with the tone, nor do I agree with people ripping posters down, but I agree with some of the substance. The massacre on Oct 7 was horrific, but what exactly does this have to do with the U.S.? If posters are your thing, maybe care about local children and plaster posters of missing and exploited American children around your town. The PP used the word propaganda -it does come across that way instead of a heart felt gesture to remember people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

Not according to Bill Clinton, and he was, you know, THERE.

Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace."

Arafat did screw up. He didn't screw up by not taking the offer though. The offer was bad, especially in regards to water. He screwed up by not proposing a reasonable counter offer or understanding how significant a move forward the offer was.

I would even argue that by doing so he is responsible for the rise of Bibi and the ever increasing Israeli hard right. Anyone who believes that the Palestinians are totally innocent victims is just as much of a fool as those that think that Israel is totally innocent

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No Palestinian ever called me the n word.

So you look at everything through the lens of whether someone from a given group happened to say something nasty to you.

What a myopic, self-involved response.

+1. African American here to say this conflict cannot be mapped onto a US race relations framework and I deeply wish people would stop trying to shoehorn it into one. It is offensive to compare Hamas actions in Gaza to Nat Turner’s slave revolt or other uprisings against *actual chattel slavery* (as I have seen Norman Finkelstein and other critics of Israel do) and it is ridiculous that BLM and other community “leaders” tolerate this appropriation of the African American experience. What happened to the left’s babbling about “cultural appropriation”??? Hamas’s violence is not entitled to the moral high ground that abolitionists occupied. Last I checked, American slaves did not have an entire UN agency, multiple NGOs and wealthy state donors tending to them while they worked out their political issues. Stop comparing yourselves to us. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

+1

Very well said.

It makes me very, very uncomfortable when I see white far leftists compare Hamas to Nat Turner favorably. It is awful and thoughtless cultural appropriation.