Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

But let’s be clear on what happened:

2000: Camp David accords, which Arafat walked away from

Second Intifada happened as the result of that failure

That ended in Feb 2005, in part because Israel withdrew from Gaza.

Gaza held elections in 2005, and Hamas was elected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Israel did not target:

The hospitals
The churches
The mosques
The schools
The evacuation routes
The water pipes
The water tanks
the fuel tanks
The bakeries
The apartment buildings
The UNWRA storage facilities
The UN mission
The Doctors without Borders oiffices
The journalists
The children
The women
The elderly
The border crossing
The foreign nationals waiting at the border crossing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.

There was a Hamas command center next to the church. Would your recommendation be that Israel just leave the command center be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Israel did not target:

The hospitals
The churches
The mosques
The schools
The evacuation routes
The water pipes
The water tanks
the fuel tanks
The bakeries
The apartment buildings
The UNWRA storage facilities
The UN mission
The Doctors without Borders oiffices
The journalists
The children
The women
The elderly
The border crossing
The foreign nationals waiting at the border crossing

Right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?

No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0

Or whether they’re German or British, right?

Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.

I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.

So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.

No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.

Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.

There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.

For 17 years they have blockaded Gaza. So whatever you want to call it, they are hardly free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Israel did not target:

The hospitals
The churches
The mosques
The schools
The evacuation routes
The water pipes
The water tanks
the fuel tanks
The bakeries
The apartment buildings
The UNWRA storage facilities
The UN mission
The Doctors without Borders oiffices
The journalists
The children
The women
The elderly
The border crossing
The foreign nationals waiting at the border crossing

A typical day of Israel not targeting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Israel did not target:

The hospitals
The churches
The mosques
The schools
The evacuation routes
The water pipes
The water tanks
the fuel tanks
The bakeries
The apartment buildings
The UNWRA storage facilities
The UN mission
The Doctors without Borders oiffices
The journalists
The children
The women
The elderly
The border crossing
The foreign nationals waiting at the border crossing

A typical day of Israel not targeting

You know what? I am SO convinced by your random picture.

Thank you for the compelling evidence!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://twitter.com/stopantisemites/status/1716994962703724728?s=46

GW students projected “Glory to our martyrs” onto a building.

Is this what you all term simply being pro-Palestinian people?

In Arab/Muslim culture, any victim of a murder is considered a martyr. This doesn’t necessarily glorify militants. The martyrs are likely dead civilians. Dumb because they should know not everyone understands that.

Because these slogans are totally just about mourning civilians:

Glory to our martyrs
Free Palestine From the river to the sea
Divestment from Zionist genocide now

You also know that jihadist terrorist groups consistently use martyr language to talk about their fighters who die.

Can you think of a country that doesn't glorify soldiers killed in battle?

And, it is totally another to glorify the terrorists who attacked innocent civilians and slaughtered them - including infants, women and toddlers.
That is what we are seeing around the world and sadly, right here in the US.

+1000

+ a million.

How exactly does one “free Palestine From River to Sea”?

Sickening.

Yup. No way to do that without eliminating Israel. And if it’s done under current Gaza leadership, that means Hamas would rule that entire land.

They would murder every single Jew, Christian, etc.

Umm. There are Christians in Gaza. Two of them, relatives of former congressman Justin Amash, were killed when Israel bombed a church they were sheltering in.

Anecdote but I have never met a Palestinian Christian who has positive things to say about Israel and its treatment of Palestinians or Christian Palestinians.

Right. Christians are also non-Jewish and are second class citizens in Israel. In the occupied land, they are just the same as as any other Palestinian, who Israelis call “cockroaches” in common talk.

The ultra orthodox are toxic. They spit on nuns, they spit on anyone who they think is a Christian.

And they don’t represent all Israelis. Stop acting like they do.

It's astounding that they are allowed to go around doing things like this. Here in the US, spitting on someone can be considered assault. But apparently Israel allows this. Especially sickening to see the children doing this as well, it's degenerate behavior being taught father to son.

They were arrested:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/04/middleeast/jerusalem-christians-spitting-israel-intl/index.html

Yeah, hate crimes happen everywhere. Even in the USA! Shocking, I know.

Israel is a civil society that arrested the perpetrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?

No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0

Or whether they’re German or British, right?

Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.

I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.

So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.

No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.

Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.

There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.

For 17 years they have blockaded Gaza. So whatever you want to call it, they are hardly free.

Blame Hamas for turning Gaza into a death cult/militarized place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.

They did not target the church itself.

Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.

There was a Hamas command center next to the church. Would your recommendation be that Israel just leave the command center be?

Former rep. Amash's relatives were not members of Hamas. They didn't need to die. You're the king of false dilemmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

Great! If Arafat had accepted the deal, those brand new settlements would not exist and that's a fact. Palestine would be 23 years old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

But let’s be clear on what happened:

2000: Camp David accords, which Arafat walked away from

Second Intifada happened as the result of that failure

That ended in Feb 2005, in part because Israel withdrew from Gaza.

Gaza held elections in 2005, and Hamas was elected.

"Territorial contiguity
In the proposed Palestinian state, Gaza Strip would be discontinuous from the West Bank. The degree to which the West Bank itself would be dis-contiguous is disputed. Noam Chomsky writes that the West Bank would have been divided into three cantons and Palestinian East Jerusalem would have constituted the fourth canton; all 4 cantons would be separated from one another by Israeli territory.[13] Other sources also said that the proposed West Bank would be divided into three cantons.[14][15][16] By contrast, Ehud Barak said the West Bank would only be divided by a wedge of Israeli territory stretching from Maale Adumim to the Jordan River, but would otherwise be continuous.[17]

The Palestinians reacted strongly negatively to the proposed cantonization of the West Bank into three blocs, which the Palestinian delegation likened to South African Bantustans, a loaded word that was disputed by the Israeli and American negotiators.[18] Settlement blocs, bypassed roads and annexed lands would create barriers between Nablus and Jenin with Ramallah. The Ramallah bloc would in turn be divided from Bethlehem and Hebron. A separate and smaller bloc would contain Jericho. Further, the border between West Bank and Jordan would additionally be under Israeli control. The Palestinian Authority would receive pockets of East Jerusalem which would be surrounded entirely by annexed lands in the West Bank.[19]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

I can't imagine why they walked away from that deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

Not according to Bill Clinton, and he was, you know, THERE.

Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html

Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.

Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?

Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?

Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......

We could argue all day and night about why the two state solution failed, but it was not a bad idea and there is blame to go around on both sides.

But let’s be clear on what happened:

2000: Camp David accords, which Arafat walked away from

Second Intifada happened as the result of that failure

That ended in Feb 2005, in part because Israel withdrew from Gaza.

Gaza held elections in 2005, and Hamas was elected.

"Territorial contiguity
In the proposed Palestinian state, Gaza Strip would be discontinuous from the West Bank. The degree to which the West Bank itself would be dis-contiguous is disputed. Noam Chomsky writes that the West Bank would have been divided into three cantons and Palestinian East Jerusalem would have constituted the fourth canton; all 4 cantons would be separated from one another by Israeli territory.[13] Other sources also said that the proposed West Bank would be divided into three cantons.[14][15][16] By contrast, Ehud Barak said the West Bank would only be divided by a wedge of Israeli territory stretching from Maale Adumim to the Jordan River, but would otherwise be continuous.[17]

The Palestinians reacted strongly negatively to the proposed cantonization of the West Bank into three blocs, which the Palestinian delegation likened to South African Bantustans, a loaded word that was disputed by the Israeli and American negotiators.[18] Settlement blocs, bypassed roads and annexed lands would create barriers between Nablus and Jenin with Ramallah. The Ramallah bloc would in turn be divided from Bethlehem and Hebron. A separate and smaller bloc would contain Jericho. Further, the border between West Bank and Jordan would additionally be under Israeli control. The Palestinian Authority would receive pockets of East Jerusalem which would be surrounded entirely by annexed lands in the West Bank.[19]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

I can't imagine why they walked away from that deal.

Israel also would not be contiguous.

Facts are hard.