SATC New Season - And Just Like That...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I’m so torn because I loved that conversation SO MUCH but the setup as you said was very very unrealistic. I’m late 40s, had kids early 30s along with most of my really close friends, and we had one other friend who had her first at 42 and second at 44. I wish I could have had this conversation with her.

Were we supposed to be aware that Stanford had a job all along? I’m not sure I ever knew what it was. This departure isn’t great but agree that they couldn’t kill him.

I thought it was a great conversation between two people who are fast tracking to real friendship. Haven't you ever met someone and you just click, and you can share with them in a way that is harder than with people you've known longer?

With one of my current students? Nope. Never. And I taught college for eight years. So maybe that’s why I’m sensitive to it. But no. I never would have discussed my fertility treatment with a current student I barely know.

+10000

It was breathtakingly unprofessional of the professor. She's a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The show feels so scripted by committee that it's painful. Give everyone an ethnically diverse friend. Give everyone a "contemporary" problem. Browbeat the audience with lessons about tolerance and acceptance while allowing them to suspend their disbelief enough that they accept this aspirational version of NYC as normal.

+1. The committee added in LGBTQ and disabled for good measure.

I think the disabled actress is the one who won a Tony for Oklahoma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I’m so torn because I loved that conversation SO MUCH but the setup as you said was very very unrealistic. I’m late 40s, had kids early 30s along with most of my really close friends, and we had one other friend who had her first at 42 and second at 44. I wish I could have had this conversation with her.

Were we supposed to be aware that Stanford had a job all along? I’m not sure I ever knew what it was. This departure isn’t great but agree that they couldn’t kill him.

Don't you remember how he managed models early on? In season 1? It has come up now and again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The show feels so scripted by committee that it's painful. Give everyone an ethnically diverse friend. Give everyone a "contemporary" problem. Browbeat the audience with lessons about tolerance and acceptance while allowing them to suspend their disbelief enough that they accept this aspirational version of NYC as normal.

+1. The committee added in LGBTQ and disabled for good measure.

Ali Stroker is a Tony award winning actress. That all you see is her wheelchair speaks only to your own bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watched the fourth episode last night. Meh.

Charlotte's arc felt a little white savior-y. She has no black friends but she's able to pull her new black friend's chestnuts out of the fire with her mother-in-law and suddenly she's "in" with the sisters? Uhhh...

And if Carrie is devastated by the loss of Big, it's hard to tell.

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I happen to be simultaneously binging Insecure and while it's not perfect, holy cow, the quality differences are so dang stark.

I don’t think this episode was white savior-y for Charlotte. Part of being a “white savior” is inserting yourself into a situation that isn’t about you and where your help is not needed because you believe on a certain level that, as a white person, you can “save” a black person from some situation. Miranda was a classic white savior in the first or second episode where she inserts herself into the situation with her professor and the security guard - her professor has the situation under control and didn’t want Miranda’s help in the moment, but Miranda decided to just in anyway to be the white hero calling out what she perceived as racist.

In this episode, Charlotte was responded to a comment made to her, and therefore was not gratuitously inserting herself into the situation. The situation also was not at all race-based (which doesn’t wholly negate “white savior” but strongly cuts against it). Lisa’s MIL was attempting to use Charlotte as a weapon against Lisa. Instead of sitting back and let it happen, Charlotte responded to defend her friend in a situation that Charlotte had already been dragged into.

I think the message of that scene was something entirely different. When Charlotte was trying to put on a show of knowing Black authors, etc., it was transparent and made everyone uncomfortable. It was when Charlotte stopped performing and was authentic in her love and knowledge of art that she really made connections with other people. This was in part because when talking about something she’s passionate about, she demonstrated an obvious familiarity with Black artists, not because they are Black but because they are great artists. She may have a lot of learning/work to do on issues of racism, but she knocked down a big wall (for herself and in how others saw her) by not “othering” Black artists and their work in that moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watched the fourth episode last night. Meh.

Charlotte's arc felt a little white savior-y. She has no black friends but she's able to pull her new black friend's chestnuts out of the fire with her mother-in-law and suddenly she's "in" with the sisters? Uhhh...

And if Carrie is devastated by the loss of Big, it's hard to tell.

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I happen to be simultaneously binging Insecure and while it's not perfect, holy cow, the quality differences are so dang stark.

I don’t think this episode was white savior-y for Charlotte. Part of being a “white savior” is inserting yourself into a situation that isn’t about you and where your help is not needed because you believe on a certain level that, as a white person, you can “save” a black person from some situation. Miranda was a classic white savior in the first or second episode where she inserts herself into the situation with her professor and the security guard - her professor has the situation under control and didn’t want Miranda’s help in the moment, but Miranda decided to just in anyway to be the white hero calling out what she perceived as racist.

In this episode, Charlotte was responded to a comment made to her, and therefore was not gratuitously inserting herself into the situation. The situation also was not at all race-based (which doesn’t wholly negate “white savior” but strongly cuts against it). Lisa’s MIL was attempting to use Charlotte as a weapon against Lisa. Instead of sitting back and let it happen, Charlotte responded to defend her friend in a situation that Charlotte had already been dragged into.

I think the message of that scene was something entirely different. When Charlotte was trying to put on a show of knowing Black authors, etc., it was transparent and made everyone uncomfortable. It was when Charlotte stopped performing and was authentic in her love and knowledge of art that she really made connections with other people. This was in part because when talking about something she’s passionate about, she demonstrated an obvious familiarity with Black artists, not because they are Black but because they are great artists. She may have a lot of learning/work to do on issues of racism, but she knocked down a big wall (for herself and in how others saw her) by not “othering” Black artists and their work in that moment.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

It’s interesting that Frasier and SATC both concluded in spring 2004 but Frasier is still *so* sharp and funny, while SATC is embarrassingly cringe. Both shows were largely about dating in your mid 30s and 40s in the 90s and early 00s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting that Frasier and SATC both concluded in spring 2004 but Frasier is still *so* sharp and funny, while SATC is embarrassingly cringe. Both shows were largely about dating in your mid 30s and 40s in the 90s and early 00s.

Frasier is my favorite show ever, but I've recently been watching Golden Girls (for the first time) and the Frasier writers appear to have borrowed somewhat liberally from GG. So, credit probably goes there. GG was first, right?

But yes, SATC doesn't hold up nearly as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watched the fourth episode last night. Meh.

Charlotte's arc felt a little white savior-y. She has no black friends but she's able to pull her new black friend's chestnuts out of the fire with her mother-in-law and suddenly she's "in" with the sisters? Uhhh...

And if Carrie is devastated by the loss of Big, it's hard to tell.

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I happen to be simultaneously binging Insecure and while it's not perfect, holy cow, the quality differences are so dang stark.

I don’t think this episode was white savior-y for Charlotte. Part of being a “white savior” is inserting yourself into a situation that isn’t about you and where your help is not needed because you believe on a certain level that, as a white person, you can “save” a black person from some situation. Miranda was a classic white savior in the first or second episode where she inserts herself into the situation with her professor and the security guard - her professor has the situation under control and didn’t want Miranda’s help in the moment, but Miranda decided to just in anyway to be the white hero calling out what she perceived as racist.

In this episode, Charlotte was responded to a comment made to her, and therefore was not gratuitously inserting herself into the situation. The situation also was not at all race-based (which doesn’t wholly negate “white savior” but strongly cuts against it). Lisa’s MIL was attempting to use Charlotte as a weapon against Lisa. Instead of sitting back and let it happen, Charlotte responded to defend her friend in a situation that Charlotte had already been dragged into.

I think the message of that scene was something entirely different. When Charlotte was trying to put on a show of knowing Black authors, etc., it was transparent and made everyone uncomfortable. It was when Charlotte stopped performing and was authentic in her love and knowledge of art that she really made connections with other people. This was in part because when talking about something she’s passionate about, she demonstrated an obvious familiarity with Black artists, not because they are Black but because they are great artists. She may have a lot of learning/work to do on issues of racism, but she knocked down a big wall (for herself and in how others saw her) by not “othering” Black artists and their work in that moment.

Well said.

I can see that. Though I think it might be a kinder interpretation than the show (thus far) deserves. You could also argue that the writers could have given C a similar opportunity to knock down a wall in a one-to-one way (directly with Lisa) that would have advanced the friendship without complicating the moment with performance notes. Why was it necessary to bring the MIL into it? Why did it have to be in front of a room full of Lisa's people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The show feels so scripted by committee that it's painful. Give everyone an ethnically diverse friend. Give everyone a "contemporary" problem. Browbeat the audience with lessons about tolerance and acceptance while allowing them to suspend their disbelief enough that they accept this aspirational version of NYC as normal.

+1. The committee added in LGBTQ and disabled for good measure.

+2 and what’s the deal with the prudishness about weed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watched the fourth episode last night. Meh.

Charlotte's arc felt a little white savior-y. She has no black friends but she's able to pull her new black friend's chestnuts out of the fire with her mother-in-law and suddenly she's "in" with the sisters? Uhhh...

And if Carrie is devastated by the loss of Big, it's hard to tell.

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I happen to be simultaneously binging Insecure and while it's not perfect, holy cow, the quality differences are so dang stark.

I don’t think this episode was white savior-y for Charlotte. Part of being a “white savior” is inserting yourself into a situation that isn’t about you and where your help is not needed because you believe on a certain level that, as a white person, you can “save” a black person from some situation. Miranda was a classic white savior in the first or second episode where she inserts herself into the situation with her professor and the security guard - her professor has the situation under control and didn’t want Miranda’s help in the moment, but Miranda decided to just in anyway to be the white hero calling out what she perceived as racist.

In this episode, Charlotte was responded to a comment made to her, and therefore was not gratuitously inserting herself into the situation. The situation also was not at all race-based (which doesn’t wholly negate “white savior” but strongly cuts against it). Lisa’s MIL was attempting to use Charlotte as a weapon against Lisa. Instead of sitting back and let it happen, Charlotte responded to defend her friend in a situation that Charlotte had already been dragged into.

I think the message of that scene was something entirely different. When Charlotte was trying to put on a show of knowing Black authors, etc., it was transparent and made everyone uncomfortable. It was when Charlotte stopped performing and was authentic in her love and knowledge of art that she really made connections with other people. This was in part because when talking about something she’s passionate about, she demonstrated an obvious familiarity with Black artists, not because they are Black but because they are great artists. She may have a lot of learning/work to do on issues of racism, but she knocked down a big wall (for herself and in how others saw her) by not “othering” Black artists and their work in that moment.

Well said.

I can see that. Though I think it might be a kinder interpretation than the show (thus far) deserves. You could also argue that the writers could have given C a similar opportunity to knock down a wall in a one-to-one way (directly with Lisa) that would have advanced the friendship without complicating the moment with performance notes. Why was it necessary to bring the MIL into it? Why did it have to be in front of a room full of Lisa's people?

Did you actually watch the whole episode? It was pretty obvious why the crowd was important vs. one-on-one with Lisa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watched the fourth episode last night. Meh.

Charlotte's arc felt a little white savior-y. She has no black friends but she's able to pull her new black friend's chestnuts out of the fire with her mother-in-law and suddenly she's "in" with the sisters? Uhhh...

And if Carrie is devastated by the loss of Big, it's hard to tell.

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I happen to be simultaneously binging Insecure and while it's not perfect, holy cow, the quality differences are so dang stark.

I don’t think this episode was white savior-y for Charlotte. Part of being a “white savior” is inserting yourself into a situation that isn’t about you and where your help is not needed because you believe on a certain level that, as a white person, you can “save” a black person from some situation. Miranda was a classic white savior in the first or second episode where she inserts herself into the situation with her professor and the security guard - her professor has the situation under control and didn’t want Miranda’s help in the moment, but Miranda decided to just in anyway to be the white hero calling out what she perceived as racist.

In this episode, Charlotte was responded to a comment made to her, and therefore was not gratuitously inserting herself into the situation. The situation also was not at all race-based (which doesn’t wholly negate “white savior” but strongly cuts against it). Lisa’s MIL was attempting to use Charlotte as a weapon against Lisa. Instead of sitting back and let it happen, Charlotte responded to defend her friend in a situation that Charlotte had already been dragged into.

I think the message of that scene was something entirely different. When Charlotte was trying to put on a show of knowing Black authors, etc., it was transparent and made everyone uncomfortable. It was when Charlotte stopped performing and was authentic in her love and knowledge of art that she really made connections with other people. This was in part because when talking about something she’s passionate about, she demonstrated an obvious familiarity with Black artists, not because they are Black but because they are great artists. She may have a lot of learning/work to do on issues of racism, but she knocked down a big wall (for herself and in how others saw her) by not “othering” Black artists and their work in that moment.

Well said.

I can see that. Though I think it might be a kinder interpretation than the show (thus far) deserves. You could also argue that the writers could have given C a similar opportunity to knock down a wall in a one-to-one way (directly with Lisa) that would have advanced the friendship without complicating the moment with performance notes. Why was it necessary to bring the MIL into it? Why did it have to be in front of a room full of Lisa's people?

Did you actually watch the whole episode? It was pretty obvious why the crowd was important vs. one-on-one with Lisa.

Yes, I saw the whole thing. I'm saying, was the crowd necessary to move forward the friendship between the two women? I understand the crowd as the episode was written, but I'm suggesting it would have been stronger if done differently. Why do you think the crowd was the better choice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watched the fourth episode last night. Meh.

Charlotte's arc felt a little white savior-y. She has no black friends but she's able to pull her new black friend's chestnuts out of the fire with her mother-in-law and suddenly she's "in" with the sisters? Uhhh...

And if Carrie is devastated by the loss of Big, it's hard to tell.

Miranda's prof opening up to her about IVF and maybe not wanting a child at all? They've known each other what? Weeks?

I happen to be simultaneously binging Insecure and while it's not perfect, holy cow, the quality differences are so dang stark.

I don’t think this episode was white savior-y for Charlotte. Part of being a “white savior” is inserting yourself into a situation that isn’t about you and where your help is not needed because you believe on a certain level that, as a white person, you can “save” a black person from some situation. Miranda was a classic white savior in the first or second episode where she inserts herself into the situation with her professor and the security guard - her professor has the situation under control and didn’t want Miranda’s help in the moment, but Miranda decided to just in anyway to be the white hero calling out what she perceived as racist.

In this episode, Charlotte was responded to a comment made to her, and therefore was not gratuitously inserting herself into the situation. The situation also was not at all race-based (which doesn’t wholly negate “white savior” but strongly cuts against it). Lisa’s MIL was attempting to use Charlotte as a weapon against Lisa. Instead of sitting back and let it happen, Charlotte responded to defend her friend in a situation that Charlotte had already been dragged into.

I think the message of that scene was something entirely different. When Charlotte was trying to put on a show of knowing Black authors, etc., it was transparent and made everyone uncomfortable. It was when Charlotte stopped performing and was authentic in her love and knowledge of art that she really made connections with other people. This was in part because when talking about something she’s passionate about, she demonstrated an obvious familiarity with Black artists, not because they are Black but because they are great artists. She may have a lot of learning/work to do on issues of racism, but she knocked down a big wall (for herself and in how others saw her) by not “othering” Black artists and their work in that moment.

Well said.

I can see that. Though I think it might be a kinder interpretation than the show (thus far) deserves. You could also argue that the writers could have given C a similar opportunity to knock down a wall in a one-to-one way (directly with Lisa) that would have advanced the friendship without complicating the moment with performance notes. Why was it necessary to bring the MIL into it? Why did it have to be in front of a room full of Lisa's people?

Did you actually watch the whole episode? It was pretty obvious why the crowd was important vs. one-on-one with Lisa.

Yes, I saw the whole thing. I'm saying, was the crowd necessary to move forward the friendship between the two women? I understand the crowd as the episode was written, but I'm suggesting it would have been stronger if done differently. Why do you think the crowd was the better choice?

The storyline wasn’t just about advancing the friendship between Charlotte and Lisa. It was also about Charlotte’s personal development independent of her friendship with Lisa. That’s the part you’re missing.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t Frasier also getting reboot? I find it hard to believe Kelsey grammer will make their reboot as cringe as Sjp has made this reboot of SATC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting that Frasier and SATC both concluded in spring 2004 but Frasier is still *so* sharp and funny, while SATC is embarrassingly cringe. Both shows were largely about dating in your mid 30s and 40s in the 90s and early 00s.

Frasier is my favorite show ever, but I've recently been watching Golden Girls (for the first time) and the Frasier writers appear to have borrowed somewhat liberally from GG. So, credit probably goes there. GG was first, right?

But yes, SATC doesn't hold up nearly as well.

I feel like a lot of people criticizing how AJLT compares to the original SATC may be romanticizing SATC a bit. The original show was cringey in many of the same ways AJLT is, and there is plenty that has not held up well.