I seemed to have missed the memo to "marry rich"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

Agreed. But this forum is filled with women that did that and did not expect to end up divorced or with a cheating spouse in their late 40s/50s after never having been in the workforce. Alimony is minimal and kids are older so child support won't be there when they are 18.

I think people advocate for some form of employment (even part-time, minimal) to keep one's foot in the door so they have options and aren't stuck in marriages or abusive relationships solely because they can't afford to divorce and live w/out their spouse's salary.

Honestly, one reason I have continued to work at least part time and to maintain career contacts is that I fear my partner dying or getting so sick he can't work). His father got cancer twice (two different types), and the second time it killed him. We both have parents who have dealt with longterm medical issues that started in their 50s and lasted the rest of their lives. I could never be comfortable just 100% relying on my spouse for money because anything could happen, and not only do I need to worry about me, I have to worry about our kids.

That said, I still think it's a choice people can make on their own and I think the often angry and judgmental response to SAHMs on this forum is really more about internalized sexism that devalues care work than it's about making sure women are making smart financial choices. You see the same negative attitude about it when a woman has the resources to not have to worry (for instance she has family money or tons of savings from her own career). It's because a lot of women confuse feminism with women doing what men do. It would be awesome if there were more focus on getting men to do more of the care work and housework that all women (SAHMs and WOHMs alike) generally do far more of than their male counterparts. We can't solve gender inequality by just helping the most privileged women gain access to jobs historically dominated by men. That's such a limited and privileged way of thinking about the problem.

+1. This is a great comment, although it may be a wasted one here on dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people responding defensively because while they may have married for love, they also married folks who were ambitious, hard-working, etc and don’t mention that they first knew that through proxies like educational background or employment. So you were looking for markers of financial success. And don’t mention the people you dated, the point is you made a choice to marry someone likely to be financially successful. It’s completely delusional to pretend you didn’t screen for proxies of wealth.

Also ridiculous that everyone thinks their success is due to their own hard work, not the opportunities they had that were about the family they were born into.

I work FT and make $200K, married to a big law partner, and would absolutely tell my three girls to care about the potential earning power of their future partners. Because women, even women like me who went to better school and have better pedigrees and initially out earned their partners, have their careers and earning power suffer when they have children. If that is likely going to happen, you should at least marry someone who can make the kind of $$ you would have made without kids.

Neither my DH nor I make anything close to what you and your spouse do, and I have a similar mindset. It's not that I would encourage my daughter to "marry rich". But I would absolutely encourage her to to think critically about finances as she contemplates marriage with someone, especially if they want kids. My parents didn't prepare me for this at all and we had to scramble a bit when we had kids because my DH is not and will never be a really high earner (he has a technical career in government and there is no private sector equivalent so his income is pretty capped). I worked in the private sector and always out earned him. None of this was a problem until we had a kid and I realized what it was like to be the partner who had to do pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and be "the mom". I had egalitarian ideals but the reality of actually having kids forced me to realize that you can't split everything down the middle and there are some things your husband cannot do. Plus I learned that I really loved being a mom and didn't want to be the primary breadwinner -- getting to spend time with my kid was like a reward for going through the challenges of pregnancy and childbirth, and if my husband was the SAHP or primary parent, it made me feel like I was just a baby making machine.

I didn't get any of this before having kids and we struggled for a bit financially when we made the collective decision for me to step back at work a bit so that I could enjoy motherhood more. I would not have made a different choice in husband if I'd known before, but I would have arranged my life a bit differently, and I think my DH and I might have made some different choices before we had kids in terms of where we live, in particular. I don't want my daughter to be blindsided by these realities.

I 100% agree with the reasons for maintaining some form or employment, even minimal. I was always told (and have seen), you have zero idea what can happen in your life/marriage/health/health of spouse, etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people responding defensively because while they may have married for love, they also married folks who were ambitious, hard-working, etc and don’t mention that they first knew that through proxies like educational background or employment. So you were looking for markers of financial success. And don’t mention the people you dated, the point is you made a choice to marry someone likely to be financially successful. It’s completely delusional to pretend you didn’t screen for proxies of wealth.

Also ridiculous that everyone thinks their success is due to their own hard work, not the opportunities they had that were about the family they were born into.

I work FT and make $200K, married to a big law partner, and would absolutely tell my three girls to care about the potential earning power of their future partners. Because women, even women like me who went to better school and have better pedigrees and initially out earned their partners, have their careers and earning power suffer when they have children. If that is likely going to happen, you should at least marry someone who can make the kind of $$ you would have made without kids.

Neither my DH nor I make anything close to what you and your spouse do, and I have a similar mindset. It's not that I would encourage my daughter to "marry rich". But I would absolutely encourage her to to think critically about finances as she contemplates marriage with someone, especially if they want kids. My parents didn't prepare me for this at all and we had to scramble a bit when we had kids because my DH is not and will never be a really high earner (he has a technical career in government and there is no private sector equivalent so his income is pretty capped). I worked in the private sector and always out earned him. None of this was a problem until we had a kid and I realized what it was like to be the partner who had to do pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and be "the mom". I had egalitarian ideals but the reality of actually having kids forced me to realize that you can't split everything down the middle and there are some things your husband cannot do. Plus I learned that I really loved being a mom and didn't want to be the primary breadwinner -- getting to spend time with my kid was like a reward for going through the challenges of pregnancy and childbirth, and if my husband was the SAHP or primary parent, it made me feel like I was just a baby making machine.

I didn't get any of this before having kids and we struggled for a bit financially when we made the collective decision for me to step back at work a bit so that I could enjoy motherhood more. I would not have made a different choice in husband if I'd known before, but I would have arranged my life a bit differently, and I think my DH and I might have made some different choices before we had kids in terms of where we live, in particular. I don't want my daughter to be blindsided by these realities.

I 100% agree with the reasons for maintaining some form or employment, even minimal. I was always told (and have seen), you have zero idea what can happen in your life/marriage/health/health of spouse, etc..

This was meant for the poster that talks about having to work in 50s due to incapacitation/illness (thereby unable to work) by spouse in 40s/50s, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every woman I know, in my immediate family and friends has married someone who makes substantially more than her. As a result, many years in, she lives a wonderful life where she is financially better off even if she is not working or a SAHM.

It can't really be a coincidence that...everyone I know did this. I would have had no idea how to, as I never screened dates for how much money they made or something.

Whatever happed to feminism and self-sufficiency?

Did the people you know marry within their social class? It sounds like you just know people that make good money. It is common for people to marry other people from similar backgrounds/social classes.

People don’t generally go into dating looking for someone rich but if they are on track to make good money, or their parents (or father) did, they are looking for someone that “fits in” with their social group. This often means similar attitudes around education, careers, and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

Agreed. But this forum is filled with women that did that and did not expect to end up divorced or with a cheating spouse in their late 40s/50s after never having been in the workforce. Alimony is minimal and kids are older so child support won't be there when they are 18.

I think people advocate for some form of employment (even part-time, minimal) to keep one's foot in the door so they have options and aren't stuck in marriages or abusive relationships solely because they can't afford to divorce and live w/out their spouse's salary.

Honestly, one reason I have continued to work at least part time and to maintain career contacts is that I fear my partner dying or getting so sick he can't work). His father got cancer twice (two different types), and the second time it killed him. We both have parents who have dealt with longterm medical issues that started in their 50s and lasted the rest of their lives. I could never be comfortable just 100% relying on my spouse for money because anything could happen, and not only do I need to worry about me, I have to worry about our kids.

That said, I still think it's a choice people can make on their own and I think the often angry and judgmental response to SAHMs on this forum is really more about internalized sexism that devalues care work than it's about making sure women are making smart financial choices. You see the same negative attitude about it when a woman has the resources to not have to worry (for instance she has family money or tons of savings from her own career). It's because a lot of women confuse feminism with women doing what men do. It would be awesome if there were more focus on getting men to do more of the care work and housework that all women (SAHMs and WOHMs alike) generally do far more of than their male counterparts. We can't solve gender inequality by just helping the most privileged women gain access to jobs historically dominated by men. That's such a limited and privileged way of thinking about the problem.

+1. This is a great comment, although it may be a wasted one here on dcum.

OMG yes. Fantastic comment.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like your family taught you to be an independent (I.e., self-sufficient ) adult, and to marry for love.

Those are sound values. You should feel grateful.

Don’t assume the women you are talking about are happier or better iff than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every woman I know, in my immediate family and friends has married someone who makes substantially more than her. As a result, many years in, she lives a wonderful life where she is financially better off even if she is not working or a SAHM.

It can't really be a coincidence that...everyone I know did this. I would have had no idea how to, as I never screened dates for how much money they made or something.

Whatever happed to feminism and self-sufficiency?

Are you married? How did you choose your spouse?

I’m a married feminist whose husband makes more than me— do I get extra special feminist points if I’d married a poor man? When did the memo go around that well educated and successful women were supposed to prove how feminist they are by marrying low earning men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people responding defensively because while they may have married for love, they also married folks who were ambitious, hard-working, etc and don’t mention that they first knew that through proxies like educational background or employment. So you were looking for markers of financial success. And don’t mention the people you dated, the point is you made a choice to marry someone likely to be financially successful. It’s completely delusional to pretend you didn’t screen for proxies of wealth.

Also ridiculous that everyone thinks their success is due to their own hard work, not the opportunities they had that were about the family they were born into.

I work FT and make $200K, married to a big law partner, and would absolutely tell my three girls to care about the potential earning power of their future partners. Because women, even women like me who went to better school and have better pedigrees and initially out earned their partners, have their careers and earning power suffer when they have children. If that is likely going to happen, you should at least marry someone who can make the kind of $$ you would have made without kids.

Neither my DH nor I make anything close to what you and your spouse do, and I have a similar mindset. It's not that I would encourage my daughter to "marry rich". But I would absolutely encourage her to to think critically about finances as she contemplates marriage with someone, especially if they want kids. My parents didn't prepare me for this at all and we had to scramble a bit when we had kids because my DH is not and will never be a really high earner (he has a technical career in government and there is no private sector equivalent so his income is pretty capped). I worked in the private sector and always out earned him. None of this was a problem until we had a kid and I realized what it was like to be the partner who had to do pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and be "the mom". I had egalitarian ideals but the reality of actually having kids forced me to realize that you can't split everything down the middle and there are some things your husband cannot do. Plus I learned that I really loved being a mom and didn't want to be the primary breadwinner -- getting to spend time with my kid was like a reward for going through the challenges of pregnancy and childbirth, and if my husband was the SAHP or primary parent, it made me feel like I was just a baby making machine.

I didn't get any of this before having kids and we struggled for a bit financially when we made the collective decision for me to step back at work a bit so that I could enjoy motherhood more. I would not have made a different choice in husband if I'd known before, but I would have arranged my life a bit differently, and I think my DH and I might have made some different choices before we had kids in terms of where we live, in particular. I don't want my daughter to be blindsided by these realities.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every woman I know, in my immediate family and friends has married someone who makes substantially more than her. As a result, many years in, she lives a wonderful life where she is financially better off even if she is not working or a SAHM.

It can't really be a coincidence that...everyone I know did this. I would have had no idea how to, as I never screened dates for how much money they made or something.

Whatever happed to feminism and self-sufficiency?

Why do you care? You made your choices and they made theirs. Do their choices impact you in any way?

+10000

Grow up OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

You cannot possibly believe that. Most women I know who stay home are setting women back decades.

Yes I believe that. Stay home moms are making choices they get to make. That is feminism. Choice. Or do you not believe in that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you. My family is not like this, but I have friends who are. Honestly, I don’t care who people marry or what the prioritize when they look for a mate. None of my business.

What is my business is when some of these women who married rich on purpose want to lecture me or anyone about feminism. Do what you want ladies, but hitching your wagon to some rich guy so that you don’t have to worry about money is not a feminist choice. It perpetuates a lot of structures that hold women back. Oh, and if that dude is white and you’re white and your kids are white… congrats, you are also helping perpetuate white supremacy. So maybe to e down the Facebook posts about what a devout feminist you are?

None of it is your business. Who people marry, their views on feminism…not your business. Nothing about this promotes white supremacy either. Your should really try to become a more intelligent person.

1) Feminism is political, and politics are everyone's business.
2) Anyone who goes around being vocal about their views on feminism should be ready to account for their own choices, but especially wealthy white women. It is so common for rich white laides to be very ra-ra feminist when they want people to be nice to them or they want to claim victimhood.

The person who quote Mikki Kendall upthread is spot on. You can claim you're a feminist all you want, but if your entire lifestyle and the well being of your children relies on your white husband's high income and the cheap labor of women of color, your feminism is nothing but a social media brand.

So, if my lifestyle depends on my high income and the cheap labor of white women, are you OK with my feminism? FWIW, my mother and grandmother worked full time outside of the home too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're probably a troll, but I'll bite. I'm all for feminism and women supporting themselves. Always. That being said, if you're tying your life, time, and finances with someone, where you have a 50% of "losing" you should set your standards on a successful, rich man. I say this as someone who married poor, for love, and had nothing to show for it when I divorced. My friends who married rich get substantial child support, had a ton of fancy jewelry to sell, etc. so at least the trauma they went through was worth their time. I'll never marry again, personally, but if I knew someone close that was doing it, I'd point this out.

You should always be self-sufficient no matter how life turns out. But it's easier to deal with betrayal when you feel like you were cared for rather realize your time and love was worth nothing.

This. Married poor guy & divorced due to his chronic cheating. Marry well for goodness sake!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

You cannot possibly believe that. Most women I know who stay home are setting women back decades.

Yes I believe that. Stay home moms are making choices they get to make. That is feminism. Choice. Or do you not believe in that?

That's called "Choice Feminism" for a reason and it's pretty...fraught with issues. So no, you making a choice just because you are a woman does not make your choice a feminist choice. And that's fine, all choices don't have to be feminist, but being a feminist does generally include pushing forwards women's rights in spheres outside our own immediate decisions and our families to advance the greater good of women, which many can reasonably argue you do not do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

You cannot possibly believe that. Most women I know who stay home are setting women back decades.

Yes I believe that. Stay home moms are making choices they get to make. That is feminism. Choice. Or do you not believe in that?

This comment is like 50 years behind the times I don't even know where to start with it. But no, your choice to run to the kitchen and the home is not anything that our foremothers were fighting for. Not even getting into intersectionality and how priveleged you need to be for this to be a "choice."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

You cannot possibly believe that. Most women I know who stay home are setting women back decades.

Yes I believe that. Stay home moms are making choices they get to make. That is feminism. Choice. Or do you not believe in that?

This comment is like 50 years behind the times I don't even know where to start with it. But no, your choice to run to the kitchen and the home is not anything that our foremothers were fighting for. Not even getting into intersectionality and how priveleged you need to be for this to be a "choice."

I agree, being Mrs Cleaver is not feminism.

We can vote now. And get our own credit and mortgages.

Feminism today is mostly about closing the wage gap and other work-related issues affecting women.