Teacher turnover

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I'm not in Ward 3, but you yourself need to do some self-reflection if you can't see that the real breach of trust is between the school and parents, many of whom STILL don't have their kids in school. That's the true rift, but you're likely more concerned about the fact that these parents breached the facade of "niceness."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Parents at our school demanded to know the specific medical ailments that were keeping teachers out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

Ok that's bad, but that's one parent. And, you should take it as evidence of the extreme breach of trust caused by school closures, not as a way to cloak yourself in self-pity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Parents at our school demanded to know the specific medical ailments that were keeping teachers out.

Well, obviously inappropriate, but given that I have to disclose all sorts of very personal details about my child, doesn't seem that invasive. Obviously they were trying to figure out whether the medical exemptions were bona fide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

Another example from my school (not PP): A parent demanding to know vaccine status and medical conditions during class, in front of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

Ok that's bad, but that's one parent. And, you should take it as evidence of the extreme breach of trust caused by school closures, not as a way to cloak yourself in self-pity.

So you are asking for specific examples, and then when provided with a specific example, your response is - "well, its just one parent"??????? So you don't actually want specific examples, you just want to argue that all of this is acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Parents at our school demanded to know the specific medical ailments that were keeping teachers out.

Well, obviously inappropriate, but given that I have to disclose all sorts of very personal details about my child, doesn't seem that invasive. Obviously they were trying to figure out whether the medical exemptions were bona fide.

But its not the same. Teachers had to provide medical documentation to DCPS as their employer, but they don't have to provide it to every individual parent. It is simply not appropriate for parents to be demanding private medical information from individual teachers.

If you don't want to share your medical information with the school, you have the option of keeping your child out of school and homeschooling. Similarly, if a teacher did not want to share their medical information with DCPS HR, then they had either agree to return in person or quit. They don't have to share their private medical information with every person who asks - that's simply not how things work, and is not an acceptable ask from parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

I would need more concrete examples before I believe that parents in favor of reopening "engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale." Because what I saw in my school was the opposite. Teachers *went on strike* (supported by principals) to keep vulnerable kids out of the classroom. This was supported by a contingent of high-profile school parents (including parents who were also elected DC officials) engaging in whisper campaigns to get parents to undermine school reopening. Parents who wanted their kids to go to school were afraid to speak up, because the prominent school parents (LSAT members, PTA presidents) were all literally reposting WTU "ONLY WHEN ITS SAFE" talking points on the school listserv.

This is the truth. Teachers poisoned the well and are now trying to blame parents for advocating for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

Ok that's bad, but that's one parent. And, you should take it as evidence of the extreme breach of trust caused by school closures, not as a way to cloak yourself in self-pity.

DP. I agree with the “it’s just one parent” part, but not with the rest of your post. As much as I am with you on the extreme breach of trust and on the idea that the prolonged school closures are an outrageous failure of the system perpetrated on this generation of kids, that email is beyond the pale, and frankly evidence of either that parent’s mental health problems or their horrible character. This person has to be an outlier, at least I hope so. No teacher should have to be subjected to this kind of verbal abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

Another example from my school (not PP): A parent demanding to know vaccine status and medical conditions during class, in front of students.

I have to submit my kid's vaccine status to the school every year - I have no issues with teachers seeing it. Or knowing about any medical issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just be honest with ourselves. Some parents, not a majority by any means, engaged in behavior that was beyond the pale. Yes, it was in the interest of their children and in moving schools in a likely better direction, but it was unnecessary, offensive, and poisoned the environment of the schools. In some rare cases, it was even racist. I am a parent, and I was frankly shocked by what some folks were willing to say and do. Even if it agreed with their point. Sadly, our society in general has deteriorated to the point that incivility has become a norm for some people. They seem to feel no shame or remorse for that. I do not blame teachers or staff for not being willing to put up with it. And even though I hope that we will slowly piece our school communities back together, they will be fractured and the wounds will take a long time to heal. You can make comments about how you'd prefer new teachers, but our children will suffer even higher teacher turnover. I know that in my own school community we are losing some fantastic teachers, ones that were incredibly reasonable during distance learning and went above and beyond for the kids. All of this is not to say that some teachers and staff also engaged in behavior that was simply unacceptable, perhaps borne out of fear and frustration, and which was unnecessary and costly for kids this past year. But the question here is teacher turnover, and the adage that two wrongs do not make a right still holds.

+1

+2

And in the spirit of keeping it real, if you can't identify examples of W3 parents acting "beyond the pale" this year over reopening, then you're likely part of the problem. At my school community, it has caused a rift between the teacher and parent community and alienated our families of color. It's not great and we have a lot of rebuilding to do this next year.

I am an NP and I am genuinely asking for an example of behavior you think is beyond the pale. Reopening was very divisive at my W6 school and definitely I heard parents privately use language about teachers (generically much more than specific teachers) that I would never use and that I suspect they would never use publicly. Sometimes getting more kids back in school made the at home experience worse and, especially to the extent that statistically preferences for IPL v DL had a racial/economic correlation, I completely agree that reopening issues split school communities along unhelpful lines. But unless you think merely advocating for kids to return given those background conditions is beyond the pale (I do not), I really cannot think of examples of the phenomenon which you indicate was everywhere. WHAT did nice white parents do at your school that was so bad?

Some of those parents who used "language about teachers that I would never use and that I suspect they would never used publicly" did in fact did do so publicly and in emails to teachers, principals, and other parents.

Until you actually spell out what you believe is "beyond the pale," I don't buy it. I think you just think it was impolite for them to advocate for kids to get back into the schools. Maybe they got a little mad -- but what did you expect? Schools literally closed for over a year for many parents, and many kids are really suffering the consequences. You seem to be arguing that the people most entitled to be emotional (parents who think their kids are being put at risk) are the ones who had to maintain some sort of decorum lest the powers that be feel hurt. This wasn't about anybodies' feelings.

Ok. I’ll go. I have an email from a parent that says “you are a disgusting piece of trash for abandoning your job as a teacher”. “You disgust me and you should be disgusted with yourself” “what you have done to children is child abuse”. I received this email in December.

I’m not sure if I consider this impolite or rude but maybe you consider it par for the course?

Ok that's bad, but that's one parent. And, you should take it as evidence of the extreme breach of trust caused by school closures, not as a way to cloak yourself in self-pity.

So you are asking for specific examples, and then when provided with a specific example, your response is - "well, its just one parent"??????? So you don't actually want specific examples, you just want to argue that all of this is acceptable.

yes, that's probably not nice to hear. but it's being a total drama llama to claim that they now have to leave the school due to hurt feelings. and yes, I do think that even this example (which isn't really all that terrible) should be read to have happened in a situation where parents felt like their kids were being actively harmed by the school decisions. so you need to factor that into your drama.