Colleges that do NOT push individual pronouns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting for OP (or anyone) to explain how it is "pushing" to make it possible to provide your pronouns if you want to.

Still waiting.

*I do realize that in some situations, one is prompted or pushed.* I agree that that is not right.

But all OP said is that some people had it on their nametags somewhere. If you literally cannot get your nametag and participate in orientation or whatever without providing pronouns, then yes; I agree, that's problematic. But if most people just tend to fill that in because, sure why not, then...that's fine!

Again, like the example upthread of they have provided you with a field to fill in this info if you want to; like "suffix." If you're not a junior/senior, don't fill in the suffix field. OK? If you don't want to provide pronouns, just...don't.

I work at a university. They suggest/sometimes prompt you to provide pronons, on email signatures and conference registration. I simply choose not to, and it's never been a problem. There was one time when the registration form wouldn't let me move forward without filling out the field; I called the event organizer, and within minutes, the online form had been changed to no longer require that.

So again...tell me, exactly, why it is prolbematic simply to provide that mechanism if someone WANTS to use that. How is that "forcing"...anything?

I'll wait.

Let’s put it this way. They can provide pronouns if they want. Just don’t expect anyon to use them

Actually? Based on lived experience on three college campus now--working with students nearly every day for 22 years? This is nothing new, and I DO expect people to use them. Most people, actually. Whatever their private views, most people have no problem using the preferred pronouns of others in academic and professional settings. I've seen professors, students, staff and parents adapt in the moment to many different scenarios without missing much of a beat, simply by being decent people with good intentions.

It's also easy enough to "work around" the "problem" by simply calling someone by their name when talking to or about them; "Oh, Brian left Brian's backpack behind" should be easy enough to muster if you simply can't say "Brian left her backpack behind." Or just...don't talk to or about Brian, unless it is literally your job to do so. And if it is literally your job to do so, yeah, you better comply with whatever HR lays out for you, or you will be out of a job. Every workplace has rules, guidelines, and standards for conduct, after all.

Try selling your views to someone who hasn't worked with students on a near-daily basis for two decades. Sorry, most people are...already fine with simply treating people with respect and basic dignity. I know that disappoints you. It costs decent people nothing to be decent people.

Whether people use them or not is up to the individual. Most kids I know would laugh in your face if you asked to be called by a pronoun.

There are campus and employment policies in place right now that make calling someone the incorrect pronouns on purpose and repeatedly an action that can get you fired or expelled. Repeatedly disrespecting someone else's gender identity is a form of bullying. You may not like this reality, but those "kids" you speak of can certainly find themselves fired or expelled for behaving like bullies. And rightfully so.

Disagree. The bullying comes from those who try to insist on this nonsense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the single stupidest criterion I’ve heard for picking colleges. Get a real problem.

It's not stupid. I don't want my child indoctrinated into thinking that picking your own pronouns is normal. Again, if a person is truly intersex, I understand that this person will have special circumstances.

Sorry your college age kid isn't a critical thinker and apparently incapable of being indoctrinated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting for OP (or anyone) to explain how it is "pushing" to make it possible to provide your pronouns if you want to.

Still waiting.

*I do realize that in some situations, one is prompted or pushed.* I agree that that is not right.

But all OP said is that some people had it on their nametags somewhere. If you literally cannot get your nametag and participate in orientation or whatever without providing pronouns, then yes; I agree, that's problematic. But if most people just tend to fill that in because, sure why not, then...that's fine!

Again, like the example upthread of they have provided you with a field to fill in this info if you want to; like "suffix." If you're not a junior/senior, don't fill in the suffix field. OK? If you don't want to provide pronouns, just...don't.

I work at a university. They suggest/sometimes prompt you to provide pronons, on email signatures and conference registration. I simply choose not to, and it's never been a problem. There was one time when the registration form wouldn't let me move forward without filling out the field; I called the event organizer, and within minutes, the online form had been changed to no longer require that.

So again...tell me, exactly, why it is prolbematic simply to provide that mechanism if someone WANTS to use that. How is that "forcing"...anything?

I'll wait.

Let’s put it this way. They can provide pronouns if they want. Just don’t expect anyon to use them

Actually? Based on lived experience on three college campus now--working with students nearly every day for 22 years? This is nothing new, and I DO expect people to use them. Most people, actually. Whatever their private views, most people have no problem using the preferred pronouns of others in academic and professional settings. I've seen professors, students, staff and parents adapt in the moment to many different scenarios without missing much of a beat, simply by being decent people with good intentions.

It's also easy enough to "work around" the "problem" by simply calling someone by their name when talking to or about them; "Oh, Brian left Brian's backpack behind" should be easy enough to muster if you simply can't say "Brian left her backpack behind." Or just...don't talk to or about Brian, unless it is literally your job to do so. And if it is literally your job to do so, yeah, you better comply with whatever HR lays out for you, or you will be out of a job. Every workplace has rules, guidelines, and standards for conduct, after all.

Try selling your views to someone who hasn't worked with students on a near-daily basis for two decades. Sorry, most people are...already fine with simply treating people with respect and basic dignity. I know that disappoints you. It costs decent people nothing to be decent people.

Whether people use them or not is up to the individual. Most kids I know would laugh in your face if you asked to be called by a pronoun.

There are campus and employment policies in place right now that make calling someone the incorrect pronouns on purpose and repeatedly an action that can get you fired or expelled. Repeatedly disrespecting someone else's gender identity is a form of bullying. You may not like this reality, but those "kids" you speak of can certainly find themselves fired or expelled for behaving like bullies. And rightfully so.

Disagree. The bullying comes from those who try to insist on this nonsense

+1.

Bullying is the perfect word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So homophobic is now a synonym for non-liberal. Got it.

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, what if you forget? I am bad with names when meeting multiple people in a short time span. I could just as easily forget your designated gender. I can get in trouble for that?

My kid work with a changed gender person who never cared if they got the pronoun wrong. Also worked with the sibling of a changed gêner person who was iterate on behalf of the fo-worker who was easy-going about the wrong pronouns use. There’s never one answer for many people.

This is my only issue with it. Fine to be asked to be called by a different pronoun but those who do need to also understand this is a new thing and everyone is getting used to it. We might forget. A pleasant reminder should be all that's called for. I posted in the VA Tech thread about my DS's experience dealing with two "they/them" professors who got angry at the students because they reverted to he/she when discussing which professor said what. If you are choosing to use a plural pronoun to refer to yourself, you are creating a situation that is going to cause confusion. Don't get mad at the people who are trying to cope with the confusion you are creating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting for OP (or anyone) to explain how it is "pushing" to make it possible to provide your pronouns if you want to.

Still waiting.

*I do realize that in some situations, one is prompted or pushed.* I agree that that is not right.

But all OP said is that some people had it on their nametags somewhere. If you literally cannot get your nametag and participate in orientation or whatever without providing pronouns, then yes; I agree, that's problematic. But if most people just tend to fill that in because, sure why not, then...that's fine!

Again, like the example upthread of they have provided you with a field to fill in this info if you want to; like "suffix." If you're not a junior/senior, don't fill in the suffix field. OK? If you don't want to provide pronouns, just...don't.

I work at a university. They suggest/sometimes prompt you to provide pronons, on email signatures and conference registration. I simply choose not to, and it's never been a problem. There was one time when the registration form wouldn't let me move forward without filling out the field; I called the event organizer, and within minutes, the online form had been changed to no longer require that.

So again...tell me, exactly, why it is prolbematic simply to provide that mechanism if someone WANTS to use that. How is that "forcing"...anything?

I'll wait.

Let’s put it this way. They can provide pronouns if they want. Just don’t expect anyon to use them

Actually? Based on lived experience on three college campus now--working with students nearly every day for 22 years? This is nothing new, and I DO expect people to use them. Most people, actually. Whatever their private views, most people have no problem using the preferred pronouns of others in academic and professional settings. I've seen professors, students, staff and parents adapt in the moment to many different scenarios without missing much of a beat, simply by being decent people with good intentions.

It's also easy enough to "work around" the "problem" by simply calling someone by their name when talking to or about them; "Oh, Brian left Brian's backpack behind" should be easy enough to muster if you simply can't say "Brian left her backpack behind." Or just...don't talk to or about Brian, unless it is literally your job to do so. And if it is literally your job to do so, yeah, you better comply with whatever HR lays out for you, or you will be out of a job. Every workplace has rules, guidelines, and standards for conduct, after all.

Try selling your views to someone who hasn't worked with students on a near-daily basis for two decades. Sorry, most people are...already fine with simply treating people with respect and basic dignity. I know that disappoints you. It costs decent people nothing to be decent people.

Whether people use them or not is up to the individual. Most kids I know would laugh in your face if you asked to be called by a pronoun.

There are campus and employment policies in place right now that make calling someone the incorrect pronouns on purpose and repeatedly an action that can get you fired or expelled. Repeatedly disrespecting someone else's gender identity is a form of bullying. You may not like this reality, but those "kids" you speak of can certainly find themselves fired or expelled for behaving like bullies. And rightfully so.

Disagree. The bullying comes from those who try to insist on this nonsense

No one is saying you HAVE TO share YOUR pronouns, but if you deliberately disrespect someone by refusing to use the correct pronouns for them--and I'm talking deliberately and actively getting it wrong on purpose, with an intent to show them how ridiculous you think they are and how little you respect them--you are 100% a bully. But by all means, keep it up. I'd kind of like to see you get fired or barred from campus. Which can happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So homophobic is now a synonym for non-liberal. Got it.

Yes.

Nope, try harder!

My parents are both lifelong Republican and are Catholic and very conservative. But they have no problem showing basic respect to others by calling others by their preferred pronouns when asked.

Y'all are so mad that it is getting harder and harder to hide your bigotry. It used to be enough not to fly the Confederate flag or bumper sticker; you used to be able to hide behind computer screens and let your true nature show with "just-for-fun" Halloween costumes.

But now, if you can't muster basic courtesy by respecting what others want you to call them, it's more and more obvious who is a bigot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, what if you forget? I am bad with names when meeting multiple people in a short time span. I could just as easily forget your designated gender. I can get in trouble for that?

My kid work with a changed gender person who never cared if they got the pronoun wrong. Also worked with the sibling of a changed gêner person who was iterate on behalf of the fo-worker who was easy-going about the wrong pronouns use. There’s never one answer for many people.

This is my only issue with it. Fine to be asked to be called by a different pronoun but those who do need to also understand this is a new thing and everyone is getting used to it. We might forget. A pleasant reminder should be all that's called for. I posted in the VA Tech thread about my DS's experience dealing with two "they/them" professors who got angry at the students because they reverted to he/she when discussing which professor said what. If you are choosing to use a plural pronoun to refer to yourself, you are creating a situation that is going to cause confusion. Don't get mad at the people who are trying to cope with the confusion you are creating.

I truly believe most people can tell the difference between an honest mistake from a person with good intentions who treats others with overall basic respect, and a bully who deliberately gets pronouns wrong and refuses to respect someone else's identity.

Come on, people. You know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the single stupidest criterion I’ve heard for picking colleges. Get a real problem.

It's not stupid. I don't want my child indoctrinated into thinking that picking your own pronouns is normal. Again, if a person is truly intersex, I understand that this person will have special circumstances.

+100
I truly think what is stupid is all the colleges that have made "stating your pronouns" to be the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in higher ed. This is not a university-wide thing; this is a thing when there are sub-groups and smaller units.

So it's not like UVA will prompt you globally to share your pronouns. It's more like when you join a living-learning program, an email from the director will go around; or if you sign up for a conference, they will prompt it during registration; or when you join a club, an email will get sent around...

This happens in businesses, corporations, nonprofits, etc., OP. When I'm prompted or ask to do so at my institution, I simply don't. I'm never pushed.

I would love to believe this, but I have heard from a number of people who were asked to state their pronoun preference when going on tours with their kids, orientations, etc. And not at schools that are known to be particularly liberal either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in higher ed. This is not a university-wide thing; this is a thing when there are sub-groups and smaller units.

So it's not like UVA will prompt you globally to share your pronouns. It's more like when you join a living-learning program, an email from the director will go around; or if you sign up for a conference, they will prompt it during registration; or when you join a club, an email will get sent around...

This happens in businesses, corporations, nonprofits, etc., OP. When I'm prompted or ask to do so at my institution, I simply don't. I'm never pushed.

OP here. Thank you. A Virginia Tech mom recently wrote an article about all students bearing pronouns on their pre-printed orientation nametags. I'm just curious about how ubiquitous this practice is.

When prompted, some students choose to share that info, and some do not. If you don't enter that information, the name tag will just state your name. What is hard to grasp about this?

^^Plus, sounds like Virginia Tech mom needs to get a life/hobby. My parents certainly never asked or cared what was going on with freaking nametags at my university. If they ever noticed something unusual about my college experiences, they might have been like, "Oh, I see Teeter is no longer a women's-only dorm" in casual conversation; they didn't feel the need to write a "blog" about MY college experience. FFS.

Well why would they? People weren't being asked to state on their name tag as to whether or not their biological sex matched their mental state. This is a new thing, that many people understandably find quite bizzare.

[Anonymous]

There are two sexes. Male or female. XX or XY. You are either one or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't worry about this, either your child will adopt your viewpoint or not. Let them choose their college based on their desired field of study.

Very easy for you to say. How many liberal parents would be comfortable paying for their child to attend a university where the social viewpoint was very different from the one that you have and raised your child with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the single stupidest criterion I’ve heard for picking colleges. Get a real problem.

It's not stupid. I don't want my child indoctrinated into thinking that picking your own pronouns is normal. Again, if a person is truly intersex, I understand that this person will have special circumstances.

If your kid is not an idiot you should have no fear.

+1. And what if your kid has to go out and live in a world where picking pronouns is the norm? Work in a workplace where gender identity is respected? College is about teaching kids you survive in the real world. And the largest university— known for STEM— in a purple state State is a good indication of what the norms will be for them. You can send them to Liberty. They’ll still have to get a job in the real world. A world where gender identity and sexual orientation may well be legally protected categories. Then what?

Plus, if you raised your kids with what you consider to be good values, you should be confident they will keep those values and won’t be “indoctrinated,” but will get the skills they need to navigate the 21st century.

Yes, and people are speaking out about the stupidity of such things, before it's too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in higher ed. This is not a university-wide thing; this is a thing when there are sub-groups and smaller units.

So it's not like UVA will prompt you globally to share your pronouns. It's more like when you join a living-learning program, an email from the director will go around; or if you sign up for a conference, they will prompt it during registration; or when you join a club, an email will get sent around...

This happens in businesses, corporations, nonprofits, etc., OP. When I'm prompted or ask to do so at my institution, I simply don't. I'm never pushed.

OP here. Thank you. A Virginia Tech mom recently wrote an article about all students bearing pronouns on their pre-printed orientation nametags. I'm just curious about how ubiquitous this practice is.

When prompted, some students choose to share that info, and some do not. If you don't enter that information, the name tag will just state your name. What is hard to grasp about this?

^^Plus, sounds like Virginia Tech mom needs to get a life/hobby. My parents certainly never asked or cared what was going on with freaking nametags at my university. If they ever noticed something unusual about my college experiences, they might have been like, "Oh, I see Teeter is no longer a women's-only dorm" in casual conversation; they didn't feel the need to write a "blog" about MY college experience. FFS.

There are a LOT of things about other people I find bizarre. But you know what? It costs me nothing to treat people with basic respect. It costs me nothing to call someone by the name they introduce themselves to me with. It costs me nothing to use their desired pronouns.

You have to pretty much be going out of your way to be exclusionary and harmful not to simply call someone by their preferred name and with their preferred pronouns.



Well why would they? People weren't being asked to state on their name tag as to whether or not their biological sex matched their mental state. This is a new thing, that many people understandably find quite bizzare.