Oberlin or NYU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, there’s no correlation between selectivity and academic quality.....uh huh.

Some, sure, but it is not universal

Alice Lloyd College
Pippa Passes, Kentucky
7.1%

College of the Ozarks
Point Lookout, Missouri
8.3%

Liberty University
Lynchburg, Virginia
20.3%

Florida Memorial University
Miami, Florida
20.5%

Missouri Valley College
Marshall, Missouri
22.2%

Lol....one can only imagine how hard you worked to mine those outliers. You may want to request a tuition refund from Oberlin because your education doesn’t seem to have been particularly effective.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Still not explaining declining selectivity and presumable the conservatory numbers have been constant over time so numbers are declining on both fronts

Because they have been shown to not be declining. But you refuse to accept.

http://www2.oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/admissions.pdf

You'll see the numbers are within a fixed range over time.

You "alternative facts" people should learn that saying a lie over and over does not make it any more true.

No alternative facts - just the CDS. From 2014 o 2018, admitted student % rose by about 4%. You can back out the conservatory if you want to, but I suspect that would make the yield look even worse, as the yield experienced about a 5% drop over the same period.

Again, it is just a data point and does not necessarily reflect on whether Oberlin is or was a good school. Just something to consider.

Yes, alternative facts. You neglect to look at all the data, and you omit the years during that stretch where both those numbers improved.

2015 admit rate DOWN 5% from 2014
2017 yield UP 5% from 2016

Alternative facts. And dishonest and not representative of the actual data.

2014 Admit rate 32%, 2018 36%. 2014 yield 32%, 2018 28%. These are Oberlin's numbers. 2018 was the most recent on there and I went 5 years back. 36% admit rate is about double/near triple the quality SLACs.

No, you didn't "go" five years back, you cherry picked two numbers which go up and down every year, as the pdf linked shows.

If you had gone back to 2000 you would have a 10% reduction!

You imply it declined over that period 2014-2018. IT DID NOT. It went up and down within a range which is probably within the standard deviation for a longer time period.

DP . You can quibble back and forth about the numbers and the years but the takeaway is that with a roughly 30% admit rate, Oberlin isn't nearly as selective as top ranked LACs.

What? By your logic, you should be sending your kids to Walmart, as Walmart at below 3% beats elite schools hands down:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/03/28/wal-mart-has-a-lower-acceptance-rate-than-harvard/?utm_term=.6685afa68f6a

Now you’re just being stupid.....not a great representative of the critical thinking skills an oberlin education produces.

Selectivity is a function of how many people a school can get to apply and its admit/rejection rate. It's an area that can be gamed easily. Simply mass mail all HS students in the USA, entice them with the possibility of free tuition, get as many to apply as possible - and reject them. Swarthmore is famous at this tactic. Stupid is you who can't read between the lines and believe US New is "news."

Sure, there’s no correlation between selectivity and academic quality.....uh huh.

St. John's College admit rate is approximately 70% Those in the know know the rigor of this school.

UChicago used to be approximately 40-50% admit rate just 15-20 years ago. They brought it down to what it is now with a PR campaign funded by huge $$$$. UChicago's academics has not changed over the years, even when it used to accept 40-50% of applicants.

If you still have the urge to chase "selectivity," go right ahead and send your kids off to Wal-mart. Wal-mart is 3-4x more selective than Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, there’s no correlation between selectivity and academic quality.....uh huh.

Some, sure, but it is not universal

Alice Lloyd College
Pippa Passes, Kentucky
7.1%

College of the Ozarks
Point Lookout, Missouri
8.3%

Liberty University
Lynchburg, Virginia
20.3%

Florida Memorial University
Miami, Florida
20.5%

Missouri Valley College
Marshall, Missouri
22.2%

Lol....one can only imagine how hard you worked to mine those outliers. You may want to request a tuition refund from Oberlin because your education doesn’t seem to have been particularly effective.

Didn’t attend Oberlin

Took two secotuseconds using this thing called “google”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the downturn is more recent.

No. I'm stopping now because you are either lying on purpose or too dense to understand. The facts remain here for anyone still following this bull:

http://www2.oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/admissions.pdf

All that shows is that Oberlin does not enjoy the increased popularity or the rise in student quality that first tier SLAC’s have enjoyed over the past 5 years. It’s a LAC, not a SLAC

Move the target yet again. Fine you can have that claim, now that the steep decline claim has been disproved 100%.

The original post said a decline, not a "steep decline," so nothing was disproved. Truth hurts

The original claim was that Oberlin has been declining. This theory has been debunked by what appears to be a professional college statistician PP above. Now this dude is claiming other schools have been increasing popularity or the "rise in student quality" over the years. This person did move the goal post.

What probably happened over the years is that the US News methodology changed. Just last year, it added "social mobility" as a factor in its ranking game. Schools moved up and down the ranking in 2019 based on this criterion alone. If you and your kids are the type that like to hobnob with the underprivileged, URM, first gen., Pell grant recipients, well, God bless you. The world needs more people like you. That said, "social mobility" is not truly an academic rigor factor. One more reason why many people poo-poo the U$ News ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still not explaining declining selectivity and presumable the conservatory numbers have been constant over time so numbers are declining on both fronts

Because they have been shown to not be declining. But you refuse to accept.

http://www2.oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/admissions.pdf

You'll see the numbers are within a fixed range over time.

You "alternative facts" people should learn that saying a lie over and over does not make it any more true.

No alternative facts - just the CDS. From 2014 o 2018, admitted student % rose by about 4%. You can back out the conservatory if you want to, but I suspect that would make the yield look even worse, as the yield experienced about a 5% drop over the same period.

Again, it is just a data point and does not necessarily reflect on whether Oberlin is or was a good school. Just something to consider.

Yes, alternative facts. You neglect to look at all the data, and you omit the years during that stretch where both those numbers improved.

2015 admit rate DOWN 5% from 2014
2017 yield UP 5% from 2016

Alternative facts. And dishonest and not representative of the actual data.

2014 Admit rate 32%, 2018 36%. 2014 yield 32%, 2018 28%. These are Oberlin's numbers. 2018 was the most recent on there and I went 5 years back. 36% admit rate is about double/near triple the quality SLACs.

No, you didn't "go" five years back, you cherry picked two numbers which go up and down every year, as the pdf linked shows.

If you had gone back to 2000 you would have a 10% reduction!

You imply it declined over that period 2014-2018. IT DID NOT. It went up and down within a range which is probably within the standard deviation for a longer time period.

DP . You can quibble back and forth about the numbers and the years but the takeaway is that with a roughly 30% admit rate, Oberlin isn't nearly as selective as top ranked LACs.

What? By your logic, you should be sending your kids to Walmart, as Walmart at below 3% beats elite schools hands down:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/03/28/wal-mart-has-a-lower-acceptance-rate-than-harvard/?utm_term=.6685afa68f6a

Now you’re just being stupid.....not a great representative of the critical thinking skills an oberlin education produces.

Selectivity is a function of how many people a school can get to apply and its admit/rejection rate. It's an area that can be gamed easily. Simply mass mail all HS students in the USA, entice them with the possibility of free tuition, get as many to apply as possible - and reject them. Swarthmore is famous at this tactic. Stupid is you who can't read between the lines and believe US New is "news."

+1

Northeastern University is Exhibit A for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS accepted to both. No SAT - 30 ACT with 3.6 UW GPA.

Was this early decision admit, pp? Curious because I have a ds who wants to attend NYU with 1390 sat and 3.7 uw gpa but can’t do early decision.

Yes - ED to NYU (Tisch). Unfortunately had to decline due to finances - their package was all loans. Things worked out as he is happy where he landed. Good luck to you and your son.

Stupid. Why do ED if you can’t pay?

+1

Because you can decline if the financial aid is insufficient.

Believe it or not, there are students who are not fullpay who are admitted to, and attend expensive schools on financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS accepted to both. No SAT - 30 ACT with 3.6 UW GPA.

Was this early decision admit, pp? Curious because I have a ds who wants to attend NYU with 1390 sat and 3.7 uw gpa but can’t do early decision.

Yes - ED to NYU (Tisch). Unfortunately had to decline due to finances - their package was all loans. Things worked out as he is happy where he landed. Good luck to you and your son.

Stupid. Why do ED if you can’t pay?

+1

Because you can decline if the financial aid is insufficient.

Believe it or not, there are students who are not fullpay who are admitted to, and attend expensive schools on financial aid.

Choose a college that defines its success in terms of student's success, the one that is willing to invest in student's education. No college - not even NYU - is worth $70,000+ per year in various loans. That's $280,000+ in 4 years. And if the student doesn't graduate in 4 years, another $70,000+ per year for every year beyond 4.

[Anonymous]

NYU is the top #1 school in Princeton Review list of schools offering worst financial aid in the country.

https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=financial-aid-not-so-great

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS accepted to both. No SAT - 30 ACT with 3.6 UW GPA.

Was this early decision admit, pp? Curious because I have a ds who wants to attend NYU with 1390 sat and 3.7 uw gpa but can’t do early decision.

Yes - ED to NYU (Tisch). Unfortunately had to decline due to finances - their package was all loans. Things worked out as he is happy where he landed. Good luck to you and your son.

Stupid. Why do ED if you can’t pay?

+1

Because you can decline if the financial aid is insufficient.

Believe it or not, there are students who are not fullpay who are admitted to, and attend expensive schools on financial aid.

Choose a college that defines its success in terms of student's success, the one that is willing to invest in student's education. No college - not even NYU - is worth $70,000+ per year in various loans. That's $280,000+ in 4 years. And if the student doesn't graduate in 4 years, another $70,000+ per year for every year beyond 4.

PP here and I completely agree. I would never send my kid to a school like NYU for those reasons.

I'm referring to the comment that PP should not have applied ED because they need FA. People who need FA can and do apply to schools ED, and that is just fine, because students who need FA can also go to expensive private schools if they can make the money work t odo so.