How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one thing to keep in mind is 2000 kids were tested for the magnets. That means about 1900 were sent a rejection letter. That letter explained that sometimes a strong student isn't accepted and explained the cohort concept; however, the majority of those students were not rejected because of a cohort, the majority of those students were simply rejected, they have a cohort that is the regular student population. So now you are waiting to hear if your student has been chosen for the pilot program, that's the March letter mentioned, but no one knows where they stand until then.

+1 - The beauty of an online Board like this is that everyone talks past each other. 4000 kids were tested for 200 seats. Many of those students were above average on the CogAT, but did not perform at levels that require academic challenge to be successful. It is important to read the learning profile associated with the test score - it gives insight into student need. MCPS will be looking at those students whose learning profiles say they become disengaged if not challenged, challenged, challenged for the new pilot in the home schools. This is not an effort to place 4000, or even 2000 students into new classes at the home school. There is much ado about nothing at this point. As Lin Manuel Miranda so aptly wrote, “wait for it.”

What is "many"? How do you know how "many" did not perform well enough on multiple tests to not qualify? The problem is none of us fully knows. Even if we obtain raw scores for our kid and some additional median score, there is a lot of interpretation that can come from it. The only thing I feel I got out of this entire selection process is that the kids, no matter what their URM status are, who were picked for TPMS/Eastern are highly qualified. The other thing I feel I got out of this is that kids who were just as qualified were rejected and no equivalent curriculum is provided or the resources given to support them. There is an attempt by mcps for something, but from the responses I read from the teachers as well as the response from poster discuss the rigor of the Eastern/TPMS, there is no comparison. Again, Rome wasn't built in a day and I don't expect mcps to solve all these issues in a year. However, communication seem unclear and plans are ad hoc. They should have been a lot more clear to all parties prior to the administration of the magnet test/application process. They should have done a better job at outlining what they plan to do short term and long term. If you think about it, communication is so poor that even a simple opt-in/out CES letter required deciphering.

I agree that this is the primary problem and is driving uproar by parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, I think MCPS has to start somewhere and yes, it will be a roller coaster ride for the first cohort of kids and teachers but that is the nature of a field test. The teachers have to grow into their new roles just like anyone starting a new job/responsibilities. Also, MCPS will most like have some sort of appeal process for students that didn't take the test. If not, I think parents have the right to contact their school and advocate on behalf of their kids that did not take the Cogat.

I agree. I think that a lot of the complaints on DCUM go like this:

1. The current situation is bad.
2. Any change from the current situation is bad.

But as you say, it has to start somewhere.

the current situation is unprecedently bad. Common Core, curriculum 2.0, dropping ability tracking, only focusing on bottom students, 3+ computer MAP tests a year. Bad. embarassingly bad. I really hope the AdComs at universities don't read DCUM.

"Even the future used to be better," as the German comedian Karl Valentin said.

But ok, let's say that the current situation is unprecedentedly bad. So why are you opposing attempts to change it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:

Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.

Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.

Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.

Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.

It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...

Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?

+1 I'm a parent, and this is pretty much what I had stated before on this forum about how this is going to roll. I feel badly for the teachers because they will not have much time to learn the new curriculum. 2.0 rollout was bad with lack of training. I can't see how this will be any different. When was the new curriculum created? Has it been finalized and reviewed?

I'm glad that MCPS acknowledges that something like this is needed, and that they are willing to try. But, I feel this was really poor planning on their part. If they knew in advance that they were going to change the admissions criteria from magnet to look more strongly at "cohort" (Metis report came out a couple of years ago), then they should've had all of this being developed simultaneously in advance. Did they really think parents wouldn't be upset over the changes in criteria and would just happily have their kids go to the home MS with no chance for a challenging curriculum? They seem out of touch with the populace of the parents of magnet cohort.

[Anonymous]

Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:

Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.

Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.

Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.

Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.

It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...

Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?

+1 I'm a parent, and this is pretty much what I had stated before on this forum about how this is going to roll. I feel badly for the teachers because they will not have much time to learn the new curriculum. 2.0 rollout was bad with lack of training. I can't see how this will be any different. When was the new curriculum created? Has it been finalized and reviewed?

I'm glad that MCPS acknowledges that something like this is needed, and that they are willing to try. But, I feel this was really poor planning on their part. If they knew in advance that they were going to change the admissions criteria from magnet to look more strongly at "cohort" (Metis report came out a couple of years ago), then they should've had all of this being developed simultaneously in advance. Did they really think parents wouldn't be upset over the changes in criteria and would just happily have their kids go to the home MS with no chance for a challenging curriculum? They seem out of touch with the populace of the parents of magnet cohort.

Why do we think that the curricula is any different from what is already in the magnet program - World Studies at Eastern or Math at TP - they aren't reinventing the wheel, they are just making the wheel available in more places. Perhaps we'll have one wheel without the other two or three wheels, but a unicycle or bicycle is better than walking, as long as you know how to ride it. Further, MCPS teachers who decide and/or are tapped to teach these classes can rise to the occasion. I have, on multiple occasions, been amazed by the quality of my children's teachers - both in magnet and in the neighborhood schools. This is not C.2.0 with all the attendant hysteria about testing - this is true enrichment, and I think the teachers who take on the burden/opportunity will do a great job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:

Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.

Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.

Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.

Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.

It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...

Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?

+1 I'm a parent, and this is pretty much what I had stated before on this forum about how this is going to roll. I feel badly for the teachers because they will not have much time to learn the new curriculum. 2.0 rollout was bad with lack of training. I can't see how this will be any different. When was the new curriculum created? Has it been finalized and reviewed?

I'm glad that MCPS acknowledges that something like this is needed, and that they are willing to try. But, I feel this was really poor planning on their part. If they knew in advance that they were going to change the admissions criteria from magnet to look more strongly at "cohort" (Metis report came out a couple of years ago), then they should've had all of this being developed simultaneously in advance. Did they really think parents wouldn't be upset over the changes in criteria and would just happily have their kids go to the home MS with no chance for a challenging curriculum? They seem out of touch with the populace of the parents of magnet cohort.

well said... another poor management example of MCPS....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

I wholeheartedly agree. While there are clearly issues with planning for this (I think they should have had the curriculum for home schools ready to go before they rolled this out, so teachers would have more time to train for it), I completely agree with the logic behind their decisions. The peer cohort logic is very good policy. It's ideal, I think, for kids to be with their neighborhood peers; it helps cultivate neighborhood cohesion. If a kid doesn't have academic peers at his/her school, then a regional magnet program can be a last resort for that kid.

Point being, MCPS is moving in the right direction, and it's up to us to push for them to implement this properly. If it's done properly, I think it will result in good things for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:

Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.

Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.

Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.

Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.

It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...

Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?

+1 I'm a parent, and this is pretty much what I had stated before on this forum about how this is going to roll. I feel badly for the teachers because they will not have much time to learn the new curriculum. 2.0 rollout was bad with lack of training. I can't see how this will be any different. When was the new curriculum created? Has it been finalized and reviewed?

I'm glad that MCPS acknowledges that something like this is needed, and that they are willing to try. But, I feel this was really poor planning on their part. If they knew in advance that they were going to change the admissions criteria from magnet to look more strongly at "cohort" (Metis report came out a couple of years ago), then they should've had all of this being developed simultaneously in advance. Did they really think parents wouldn't be upset over the changes in criteria and would just happily have their kids go to the home MS with no chance for a challenging curriculum? They seem out of touch with the populace of the parents of magnet cohort.

Why do we think that the curricula is any different from what is already in the magnet program - World Studies at Eastern or Math at TP - they aren't reinventing the wheel, they are just making the wheel available in more places. Perhaps we'll have one wheel without the other two or three wheels, but a unicycle or bicycle is better than walking, as long as you know how to ride it. Further, MCPS teachers who decide and/or are tapped to teach these classes can rise to the occasion. I have, on multiple occasions, been amazed by the quality of my children's teachers - both in magnet and in the neighborhood schools. This is not C.2.0 with all the attendant hysteria about testing - this is true enrichment, and I think the teachers who take on the burden/opportunity will do a great job.

Because MCPS has stated it's not the exact same: "Office of Curriculum and Instructional Programs is developing two enriched and accelerated courses"

Why would they have to develop the new curriculum if they are going to use the exact same one at magnets?

yes the are basing it off the magnet classes, but it's not the same, by their own admission. I think you are deluded if you really think these classes will have the same curriculum as the magnets. I have a DC in MS whose World Studies class is supposed to be "honors" - designated as such on the report card. It's a joke. DC came back to home MS from HGC. When DC went into 6th grade, and teacher recommended Honors WS I was happy that DC was going to be challenged. Prior to starting MS, some of us parents of students from HGC met with the Principal and teachers about challenging curriculum. They talked up the "honors" class. I came away thinking that DC would be challenged a bit. OMG. Was I wrong. So, I'm just very dubious about this new enriched curriculum. If it works out well, then of course, I will be happy (I have a younger DC close to hitting MS), but I'm just very dubious (and yes, cynical).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

I wholeheartedly agree. While there are clearly issues with planning for this (I think they should have had the curriculum for home schools ready to go before they rolled this out, so teachers would have more time to train for it), I completely agree with the logic behind their decisions. The peer cohort logic is very good policy. It's ideal, I think, for kids to be with their neighborhood peers; it helps cultivate neighborhood cohesion. If a kid doesn't have academic peers at his/her school, then a regional magnet program can be a last resort for that kid.

Point being, MCPS is moving in the right direction, and it's up to us to push for them to implement this properly. If it's done properly, I think it will result in good things for everyone.

If it were the *exact* same curriculum, then I would agree. But I'm thinking that it won't be the same because they are "developing" it. If they were going to offer the same curriculum to the other MS why not just have those teachers train on the existing curriculum instead of developing a new one (though it may be based on the existing one)? Why reinvent the wheel?

[Anonymous]

Just having ability driven classes will lead to more engagement - the new and current 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 classroom make-up is ineffective for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

I wholeheartedly agree. While there are clearly issues with planning for this (I think they should have had the curriculum for home schools ready to go before they rolled this out, so teachers would have more time to train for it), I completely agree with the logic behind their decisions. The peer cohort logic is very good policy. It's ideal, I think, for kids to be with their neighborhood peers; it helps cultivate neighborhood cohesion. If a kid doesn't have academic peers at his/her school, then a regional magnet program can be a last resort for that kid.

Point being, MCPS is moving in the right direction, and it's up to us to push for them to implement this properly. If it's done properly, I think it will result in good things for everyone.

If it were the *exact* same curriculum, then I would agree. But I'm thinking that it won't be the same because they are "developing" it. If they were going to offer the same curriculum to the other MS why not just have those teachers train on the existing curriculum instead of developing a new one (though it may be based on the existing one)? Why reinvent the wheel?

PP here. I don't know. It's definitely weird. I think that's a question we have to ask MCPS. If these kids are testing at levels equivalent to kids who got into the magnet programs, then presumably they can handle the magnet curriculum. Doesn't make sense to invent a new class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MCPS did not remove the magnet program from TPMS/Eastern to create a program at Clemente. Right now, not only has MCPS removed the Humanities program from Clemente, but in fact, they have cut down the magnet writing class from the curriculum. MLK 6th grade Humanities is not the same program that the current Clemente 6th grade Humanities student are getting. Next year, MLK 6th grade Humanities will not be the same program that 6th grade Humanities students will be getting.

Other problems with MLK - a very inapt administration, no additional programs, complete lack of parental engagement, not a working PTA. Since the students are at a middle school for only three short and crucial years, this is a grave injustice to students who have got in because of their hard work and talent. Not because of the color of their skin.

Correct. Instead, MCPS removed the option for upcounty students to attend the downcounty magnet programs. They had to go to Clemente instead, and start from scratch -- just like you're complaining the Humanities program at MLK will have to do. And in fact the Humanities program at MLK won't have to start from scratch, because a lot of the Humanities teachers from Clemente are moving to MLK. And yes, there will be one less magnet class (going from 4 to 3, the same number as math/sci), but there will also be a new requirement to take a foreign language in sixth grade, which seems to me to be a very important component of any program that calls itself Humanities.

It is not a "grave injustice" to move the Humanities program from one IB middle school in Germantown to another IB middle school in Germantown.

And it's really despicable -- in addition to fact-free -- to keep implying that the kids who were admitted to the magnet programs this year only got in because of the color of their skin. Stop doing that.

+1000

My children were/are at Clemente magnet programs. I really don't want to be associated with these parents. Shame on you PP!!

[Anonymous]

The curriculum for the new classes will be rolled out 2 weeks before school starts, so teachers will have no preparation to teach it. In 2-3 years there will be improvement hopefully. It is hard not to bitter.

I have a 7th and 8th grader who were waitlisted for middle school magnets and never offered a spot. I guess they will just be stuck with the current unchallenging curriculum with no ability tracking. My 8th grader is headed to private. 7th grader will go private for high school as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

I wholeheartedly agree. While there are clearly issues with planning for this (I think they should have had the curriculum for home schools ready to go before they rolled this out, so teachers would have more time to train for it), I completely agree with the logic behind their decisions. The peer cohort logic is very good policy. It's ideal, I think, for kids to be with their neighborhood peers; it helps cultivate neighborhood cohesion. If a kid doesn't have academic peers at his/her school, then a regional magnet program can be a last resort for that kid.

Point being, MCPS is moving in the right direction, and it's up to us to push for them to implement this properly. If it's done properly, I think it will result in good things for everyone.

If it were the *exact* same curriculum, then I would agree. But I'm thinking that it won't be the same because they are "developing" it. If they were going to offer the same curriculum to the other MS why not just have those teachers train on the existing curriculum instead of developing a new one (though it may be based on the existing one)? Why reinvent the wheel?

PP here. I don't know. It's definitely weird. I think that's a question we have to ask MCPS. If these kids are testing at levels equivalent to kids who got into the magnet programs, then presumably they can handle the magnet curriculum. Doesn't make sense to invent a new class.

I think they have to develop a new class because the existing magnet classes are based on interdisciplinary curriculum as a previous poster explained for Eastern. Also, the existing magnet curriculum is scaffolded in both programs. Therefore, MCPS has to develop two challenging/enriched classes in the humanities and math that don't neatly fit into an existing puzzle or Jenga tower. As MCPS develops new classes for 7th and 8th grade as the first cohort moves thru the program the classes may become more connected, but they will never mirror the Eastern/TPMS experience or else they introduce more than 1 class in each subject area or figure out how to link the math class to what is happening in science, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:

Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.

Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.

Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.

Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.

It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...

Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?

I am a teacher and a parent who fully supports your perspective.

My oldest decided not to take the magnet test as she didn't think she'd make the cut, but more importantly, she said she knows her stress level too well! Having said that, I personally am against magnets. But what makes me laugh is the ironic measures the system takes in creating and supporting test in magnets, "special magnets" (Argyle, Loiderman, and Parkland), and now school-based magnets.

Instead of spending money busing kids from one school to the next and instead of trying to accommodate every Snowflake at the non-magnet schools, go back to community-supported schools and RAMP UP the rigor in on level classes. Oh - and let's not forget the "all honors" courses, where a course is labeled as advanced across the board.

If even half of you knew what went on in "regular" classes, you'd lose your minds. We are graduating kids who can barely read and write, and I blame multiple stakeholders for shortsighted visions, fear of lawsuits, and selfish motives.

If even half knew what went on in regular classes we would lose our minds. But our kids are dismissed as snowflakes and we are pushy if we advocate for something else.