How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

I wholeheartedly agree. While there are clearly issues with planning for this (I think they should have had the curriculum for home schools ready to go before they rolled this out, so teachers would have more time to train for it), I completely agree with the logic behind their decisions. The peer cohort logic is very good policy. It's ideal, I think, for kids to be with their neighborhood peers; it helps cultivate neighborhood cohesion. If a kid doesn't have academic peers at his/her school, then a regional magnet program can be a last resort for that kid.

Point being, MCPS is moving in the right direction, and it's up to us to push for them to implement this properly. If it's done properly, I think it will result in good things for everyone.

If it were the *exact* same curriculum, then I would agree. But I'm thinking that it won't be the same because they are "developing" it. If they were going to offer the same curriculum to the other MS why not just have those teachers train on the existing curriculum instead of developing a new one (though it may be based on the existing one)? Why reinvent the wheel?

PP here. I don't know. It's definitely weird. I think that's a question we have to ask MCPS. If these kids are testing at levels equivalent to kids who got into the magnet programs, then presumably they can handle the magnet curriculum. Doesn't make sense to invent a new class.

I think they have to develop a new class because the existing magnet classes are based on interdisciplinary curriculum as a previous poster explained for Eastern. Also, the existing magnet curriculum is scaffolded in both programs. Therefore, MCPS has to develop two challenging/enriched classes in the humanities and math that don't neatly fit into an existing puzzle or Jenga tower. As MCPS develops new classes for 7th and 8th grade as the first cohort moves thru the program the classes may become more connected, but they will never mirror the Eastern/TPMS experience or else they introduce more than 1 class in each subject area or figure out how to link the math class to what is happening in science, etc.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining. I just hope the new curriculum is *just* as challenging as the magnet curriculum even though it lacks that interdisciplinary connection. We shall see. But, they really should've planned ahead of time. Teachers won't have much time to train on this new curriculum. It does suck for the MS students in previous years who could've used this program, too, and yes, I include my 7th grader DC in this lot who came back from HGC to a lackluster curriculum. No challenge. Just cruising through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The curriculum for the new classes will be rolled out 2 weeks before school starts, so teachers will have no preparation to teach it. In 2-3 years there will be improvement hopefully. It is hard not to bitter.

I have a 7th and 8th grader who were waitlisted for middle school magnets and never offered a spot. I guess they will just be stuck with the current unchallenging curriculum with no ability tracking. My 8th grader is headed to private. 7th grader will go private for high school as well.

I'm sorry, PP. Seriously, I am. DH and I are having this very debate. I'm convinced DC isn't getting what she needs (she's in ES now) and he thinks she'll be fine. DH has moral issues with private school (he thinks taking smart kids out of public school is bad for society). I get where he's coming from, but I also don't want DC to get screwed. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

What happens to kids who opted out because they didn't want the long bus ride to a magnet or didn't want to leave social group? They may have applied if they knew that a home school magnet was an option.

What happens on this note next year? If a kid absolutely won't go to magnet for those reasons but wants consideration for in school differentiation, is a cogat test really needed? The school will have 6 years of testing data (MAP-P, MAP-M, MAP-R, Inview, PARCC etc), grades, performance in compact math, teacher recs etc. Isn't that enough for a school to determine whether a child is highly-able and would benefit from an advanced section of math or humanities? Why does central office need to be involved other than for appeals and for placement in the magnets like Eastern and TP?

In house magnet and advanced classes should be available to every qualified child. There should not be a set number of seats and a competition frenzy to get in. Otherwise, how is the school meeting the needs of all kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one thing to keep in mind is 2000 kids were tested for the magnets. That means about 1900 were sent a rejection letter. That letter explained that sometimes a strong student isn't accepted and explained the cohort concept; however, the majority of those students were not rejected because of a cohort, the majority of those students were simply rejected, they have a cohort that is the regular student population. So now you are waiting to hear if your student has been chosen for the pilot program, that's the March letter mentioned, but no one knows where they stand until then.

+1 - The beauty of an online Board like this is that everyone talks past each other. 4000 kids were tested for 200 seats. Many of those students were above average on the CogAT, but did not perform at levels that require academic challenge to be successful. It is important to read the learning profile associated with the test score - it gives insight into student need. MCPS will be looking at those students whose learning profiles say they become disengaged if not challenged, challenged, challenged for the new pilot in the home schools. This is not an effort to place 4000, or even 2000 students into new classes at the home school. There is much ado about nothing at this point. As Lin Manuel Miranda so aptly wrote, “wait for it.”

Thank you, make that 4000, I'm going to mush! And, yes profile, that's going to be key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, I think MCPS has to start somewhere and yes, it will be a roller coaster ride for the first cohort of kids and teachers but that is the nature of a field test. The teachers have to grow into their new roles just like anyone starting a new job/responsibilities. Also, MCPS will most like have some sort of appeal process for students that didn't take the test. If not, I think parents have the right to contact their school and advocate on behalf of their kids that did not take the Cogat.

I agree. I think that a lot of the complaints on DCUM go like this:

1. The current situation is bad.
2. Any change from the current situation is bad.

But as you say, it has to start somewhere.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/
the current situation is unprecedently bad. Common Core, curriculum 2.0, dropping ability tracking, only focusing on bottom students, 3+ computer MAP tests a year. Bad. embarassingly bad. I really hope the AdComs at universities don't read DCUM.

As a parent of a bottom student -- I could only wish they were focusing more on her....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who opted out because they didn't want the long bus ride to a magnet or didn't want to leave social group? They may have applied if they knew that a home school magnet was an option.

What happens on this note next year? If a kid absolutely won't go to magnet for those reasons but wants consideration for in school differentiation, is a cogat test really needed? The school will have 6 years of testing data (MAP-P, MAP-M, MAP-R, Inview, PARCC etc), grades, performance in compact math, teacher recs etc. Isn't that enough for a school to determine whether a child is highly-able and would benefit from an advanced section of math or humanities? Why does central office need to be involved other than for appeals and for placement in the magnets like Eastern and TP?

In house magnet and advanced classes should be available to every qualified child. There should not be a set number of seats and a competition frenzy to get in. Otherwise, how is the school meeting the needs of all kids?

But as a teacher said earlier, if they do what you suggest then every parent will complain and push to have their kids enrolled. Then we will have parents on DCUM complain that the class is watered down and just another honor's class or complain like they do about the number of kids that are in compacted math now. MCPS can't win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making systemic changes is often, unfortunately, messy. But perhaps this is the way it has to be. MCPS is a large entity dealing with many challenges. This attempt to try to better meet the needs of the many advanced students in the county seems to me a significant first step. Reminder that prior to this, if student did not get into magnet, that was it. They were on their own. At least now there is acknowledgement from MCPS that more needs to be done at the local MS level. That to me is progress. Understandable most will feel it is not enough and I agree it is enough. But at least now there is an opening for parents to advocate with MCPS now that they have acknowledged the need is there. Just need to keep working with and pushing the system to keep the momentum.

I wholeheartedly agree. While there are clearly issues with planning for this (I think they should have had the curriculum for home schools ready to go before they rolled this out, so teachers would have more time to train for it), I completely agree with the logic behind their decisions. The peer cohort logic is very good policy. It's ideal, I think, for kids to be with their neighborhood peers; it helps cultivate neighborhood cohesion. If a kid doesn't have academic peers at his/her school, then a regional magnet program can be a last resort for that kid.

Point being, MCPS is moving in the right direction, and it's up to us to push for them to implement this properly. If it's done properly, I think it will result in good things for everyone.

If it were the *exact* same curriculum, then I would agree. But I'm thinking that it won't be the same because they are "developing" it. If they were going to offer the same curriculum to the other MS why not just have those teachers train on the existing curriculum instead of developing a new one (though it may be based on the existing one)? Why reinvent the wheel?

Well, I can see why MCPS would have to adapt - because Eastern's program for World Studies is integrated with its ELA, so if you disconnect it, there will be some issues that need to be addressed. I imagine the same is true at TPMS for its Math program. Adaptation, however, is different from wholly inventing a curriculum. Thus "don't reinvent the wheel" - when that term is used in writing, it means you use a basic structure or framework that you already have but tailor it for your purposes. I think the same would be true here, and since they have a curriculum that is working well (so well that people are bringing out the pitchforks should their child not be enriched by it, it would be folly to go a completely different direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone want to join me in focusing on the positive.

We can't realistically have a full magnet at every school.

While no kid is getting the full magnet program outside of the actual magnets , the home school kids have the potential to get magnet curriculum for both Social Studies and Math. It is a good fit to not have to specialize in 6th Grade for many students. They get the local social atmosphere of the home school. They don't have to ride the bus for an hour each way.

I want to celebrate, not throw stones.

RIGHT?!?! I can't believe the discussion isn't at least a little more balanced. Of course it's not exactly the same. But they are listening to you. And they are responding. And this year it might be rocky. But then they'll know how to make it better next year. As another poster noted, the magnet curriculum is 3 courses - this is 2. I mean, it's not equivalent, but what a big change from where it started. Also, a child in the magnet only gets enriched curriculum in humanities OR math/science. Sounds like these kids will get one of each, a more balanced approach.

They weren't going to listen to you and open 30 new magnets by September (or ever). So they're doing what they can with their resources. I am with you - they made big mistakes in how the magnet process has been handled (now and in the past), and I was pissed. But I appreciate that they're trying. If I were MCPS, I'd sometimes feel like throwing in the towel because nothing I did would ever be appreciated.

It's funny because like you, I was doing my happy dance when I heard this announcement. Then I started thinking about the logistic and felt a bit foolish and realized I might be getting the real short end of the stick. I would especially feel so if I was a parent of a 5th grader who was part of the HGC, had really great scores/grades/voice all across the board, and got rejected base on cohorts. There is a teacher input upthread. I think it was a nice summary of at least her view of how this program might pan out and it's really not a pretty picture as much as I wish it was. I am hopeful, but I don't want to be played for a fool either.

Happy DANCE! that is funny, your only happy dance is rabble-rousing on an anonymous forum. You don't have a qualified child who was rejected? Why are you stirring this pot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone want to join me in focusing on the positive.

We can't realistically have a full magnet at every school.

While no kid is getting the full magnet program outside of the actual magnets , the home school kids have the potential to get magnet curriculum for both Social Studies and Math. It is a good fit to not have to specialize in 6th Grade for many students. They get the local social atmosphere of the home school. They don't have to ride the bus for an hour each way.

I want to celebrate, not throw stones.

RIGHT?!?! I can't believe the discussion isn't at least a little more balanced. Of course it's not exactly the same. But they are listening to you. And they are responding. And this year it might be rocky. But then they'll know how to make it better next year. As another poster noted, the magnet curriculum is 3 courses - this is 2. I mean, it's not equivalent, but what a big change from where it started. Also, a child in the magnet only gets enriched curriculum in humanities OR math/science. Sounds like these kids will get one of each, a more balanced approach.

They weren't going to listen to you and open 30 new magnets by September (or ever). So they're doing what they can with their resources. I am with you - they made big mistakes in how the magnet process has been handled (now and in the past), and I was pissed. But I appreciate that they're trying. If I were MCPS, I'd sometimes feel like throwing in the towel because nothing I did would ever be appreciated.

It's funny because like you, I was doing my happy dance when I heard this announcement. Then I started thinking about the logistic and felt a bit foolish and realized I might be getting the real short end of the stick. I would especially feel so if I was a parent of a 5th grader who was part of the HGC, had really great scores/grades/voice all across the board, and got rejected base on cohorts. There is a teacher input upthread. I think it was a nice summary of at least her view of how this program might pan out and it's really not a pretty picture as much as I wish it was. I am hopeful, but I don't want to be played for a fool either.

Happy DANCE! that is funny, your only happy dance is rabble-rousing on an anonymous forum. You don't have a qualified child who was rejected? Why are you stirring this pot?

Because I do have children, and overall education should be addressed wholly as a community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone want to join me in focusing on the positive.

We can't realistically have a full magnet at every school.

While no kid is getting the full magnet program outside of the actual magnets , the home school kids have the potential to get magnet curriculum for both Social Studies and Math. It is a good fit to not have to specialize in 6th Grade for many students. They get the local social atmosphere of the home school. They don't have to ride the bus for an hour each way.

I want to celebrate, not throw stones.

RIGHT?!?! I can't believe the discussion isn't at least a little more balanced. Of course it's not exactly the same. But they are listening to you. And they are responding. And this year it might be rocky. But then they'll know how to make it better next year. As another poster noted, the magnet curriculum is 3 courses - this is 2. I mean, it's not equivalent, but what a big change from where it started. Also, a child in the magnet only gets enriched curriculum in humanities OR math/science. Sounds like these kids will get one of each, a more balanced approach.

They weren't going to listen to you and open 30 new magnets by September (or ever). So they're doing what they can with their resources. I am with you - they made big mistakes in how the magnet process has been handled (now and in the past), and I was pissed. But I appreciate that they're trying. If I were MCPS, I'd sometimes feel like throwing in the towel because nothing I did would ever be appreciated.

It's funny because like you, I was doing my happy dance when I heard this announcement. Then I started thinking about the logistic and felt a bit foolish and realized I might be getting the real short end of the stick. I would especially feel so if I was a parent of a 5th grader who was part of the HGC, had really great scores/grades/voice all across the board, and got rejected base on cohorts. There is a teacher input upthread. I think it was a nice summary of at least her view of how this program might pan out and it's really not a pretty picture as much as I wish it was. I am hopeful, but I don't want to be played for a fool either.

Happy DANCE! that is funny, your only happy dance is rabble-rousing on an anonymous forum. You don't have a qualified child who was rejected? Why are you stirring this pot?

Because I do have children, and overall education should be addressed wholly as a community.

Oh, I've gotten this same reaction from some DCUM posters -- how dare you care about what's happening in the school system generally?? Why wouldn't you *only* care about what's happening to your kid *right now*?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, I've gotten this same reaction from some DCUM posters -- how dare you care about what's happening in the school system generally?? Why wouldn't you *only* care about what's happening to your kid *right now*?

I didn't notice much caring from the parents of high-ability kids who would probably have been admitted to TPMS under the previous admissions process, about the many, many high-ability kids who weren't admitted to the MS magnets, in many cases didn't even apply to the MS magnets, and received only the regular MCPS curriculum in their middle schools. But now that it's their own high-ability kids who would get the regular MCPS curriculum in their middle schools, they care! Which is perfectly understandable and natural, but not necessarily the moral high ground.

[Anonymous]

Our older child went HGC elementary school but did not get into MS magnet. Local school was a breeze and not challenging, but he was determined and worked to get into HS magnet, where he is enjoying the challenge and doing very well. Thus we have first hand experience. My personal view has been that there have always been hundreds/thousands of MCPS students who were well qualified and would have benefited from a more challenging level of instruction who could not be invited get into magnet due to the numbers constraints. In the current trend, I see an opportunity for MCPS to begin to better meet the needs of all those high ability students beyond just the few slots available via magnets. I think more students can truly be better served this way if MCPS can implement this pilot approach well across the county. It will take time, but it could be a good solution to more appropriate instruction for more students across the higher achieving spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our older child went HGC elementary school but did not get into MS magnet. Local school was a breeze and not challenging, but he was determined and worked to get into HS magnet, where he is enjoying the challenge and doing very well. Thus we have first hand experience. My personal view has been that there have always been hundreds/thousands of MCPS students who were well qualified and would have benefited from a more challenging level of instruction who could not be invited get into magnet due to the numbers constraints. In the current trend, I see an opportunity for MCPS to begin to better meet the needs of all those high ability students beyond just the few slots available via magnets. I think more students can truly be better served this way if MCPS can implement this pilot approach well across the county. It will take time, but it could be a good solution to more appropriate instruction for more students across the higher achieving spectrum.

Well said, and I completely agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone want to join me in focusing on the positive.

We can't realistically have a full magnet at every school.

While no kid is getting the full magnet program outside of the actual magnets , the home school kids have the potential to get magnet curriculum for both Social Studies and Math. It is a good fit to not have to specialize in 6th Grade for many students. They get the local social atmosphere of the home school. They don't have to ride the bus for an hour each way.

I want to celebrate, not throw stones.

RIGHT?!?! I can't believe the discussion isn't at least a little more balanced. Of course it's not exactly the same. But they are listening to you. And they are responding. And this year it might be rocky. But then they'll know how to make it better next year. As another poster noted, the magnet curriculum is 3 courses - this is 2. I mean, it's not equivalent, but what a big change from where it started. Also, a child in the magnet only gets enriched curriculum in humanities OR math/science. Sounds like these kids will get one of each, a more balanced approach.

They weren't going to listen to you and open 30 new magnets by September (or ever). So they're doing what they can with their resources. I am with you - they made big mistakes in how the magnet process has been handled (now and in the past), and I was pissed. But I appreciate that they're trying. If I were MCPS, I'd sometimes feel like throwing in the towel because nothing I did would ever be appreciated.

It's funny because like you, I was doing my happy dance when I heard this announcement. Then I started thinking about the logistic and felt a bit foolish and realized I might be getting the real short end of the stick. I would especially feel so if I was a parent of a 5th grader who was part of the HGC, had really great scores/grades/voice all across the board, and got rejected base on cohorts. There is a teacher input upthread. I think it was a nice summary of at least her view of how this program might pan out and it's really not a pretty picture as much as I wish it was. I am hopeful, but I don't want to be played for a fool either.

Happy DANCE! that is funny, your only happy dance is rabble-rousing on an anonymous forum. You don't have a qualified child who was rejected? Why are you stirring this pot?

Because I do have children, and overall education should be addressed wholly as a community.

Oh, I've gotten this same reaction from some DCUM posters -- how dare you care about what's happening in the school system generally?? Why wouldn't you *only* care about what's happening to your kid *right now*?

Look, I totally support everyone taking an interest and getting involved in the conversation. I just don't like this poster's approach: feigning camaraderie with the PP and sympathy for a logical fallacy, all as an in to grind the same axe--MCPS bad, CS parents need to stay screaming mad. There's no content in that post, it's rabble rousing. Give this poster an inch, you'll find out what's under that surface.

[Anonymous]

open up two more magnet programs then. not in east county.