How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Umm, No. MCPS has been planning this since Fall, when representatives alluded to it during the Magnet MS presentations. They did not communicate well about their plans, however, and everyone Freaked-the-heck-out. So now, MCPS is planning to spread their original plan to more schools.

Yeah, I'm not sure why everybody thinks that this is happening in response to pressure from parents who are upset that their children didn't get into the magnets. If you'd paid attention to the CES process in the field test areas last year, you'd know that what's happening now is very, very similar (I have a child in the 4th grade at one of the field test CES schools):

1) They expanded testing and identified more kids who would do well in the CES centers.

2) There were not enough spaces for all of them, so many children who had similar test scores (and would have probably done equally well) were not offered places at the centers.

3) The "peer group at the home school" was mentioned as a reason, although some children from those same home schools were selected to go to the CES (e.g., my child was selected, and another child with the same score on the magnet test was not selected and told there was a peer group as a reason -- I don't know what distinctions there were between the two children on other measures such as MAP tests, grades, etc., but both are the same race).

4) Some parents who were told there was a "peer group" were upset that their qualified children weren't offered spaces, but it didn't turn into a massive thread on DCUM. I knew that although my child was selected, it didn't mean she was more qualified than others who weren't selected; it meant she was qualified and lucky, since there were not enough spaces for everybody who was qualified and for some reason she was chosen.

5) In the meantime, MCPS was working on opening additional local centers and increasing enrichment offerings at home schools in an attempt to bring some benefit to larger groups of students, although information about these options was slow to reach parents.

This sounds exactly like what is happening this year; there's just more outrage because it's hitting a larger number of students and there are even fewer magnet MS spots compared to CES spots.

I am hopeful that MCPS is moving in the right direction to identify larger numbers of highly capable students and to provide additional opportunities beyond the limited magnet spaces that currently exist. I look forward to seeing what options my child has once she hits middle school.

The test your kid took was just the COGAT screener, It is 30 minutes long and cannot meaningfully assess very much. The test these kids took was the full COGAT, 6x the length. The outage is that these kids have higher percentiles on the full COGAT, than many of the kids accepted (especially Eastern). These kids were penalized for being in the centers. It is actually a very small amount of parents upset, with a common theme -- HGC kid and 99%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Umm, No. MCPS has been planning this since Fall, when representatives alluded to it during the Magnet MS presentations. They did not communicate well about their plans, however, and everyone Freaked-the-heck-out. So now, MCPS is planning to spread their original plan to more schools.

Yeah, I'm not sure why everybody thinks that this is happening in response to pressure from parents who are upset that their children didn't get into the magnets. If you'd paid attention to the CES process in the field test areas last year, you'd know that what's happening now is very, very similar (I have a child in the 4th grade at one of the field test CES schools):

1) They expanded testing and identified more kids who would do well in the CES centers.

2) There were not enough spaces for all of them, so many children who had similar test scores (and would have probably done equally well) were not offered places at the centers.

3) The "peer group at the home school" was mentioned as a reason, although some children from those same home schools were selected to go to the CES (e.g., my child was selected, and another child with the same score on the magnet test was not selected and told there was a peer group as a reason -- I don't know what distinctions there were between the two children on other measures such as MAP tests, grades, etc., but both are the same race).

4) Some parents who were told there was a "peer group" were upset that their qualified children weren't offered spaces, but it didn't turn into a massive thread on DCUM. I knew that although my child was selected, it didn't mean she was more qualified than others who weren't selected; it meant she was qualified and lucky, since there were not enough spaces for everybody who was qualified and for some reason she was chosen.

5) In the meantime, MCPS was working on opening additional local centers and increasing enrichment offerings at home schools in an attempt to bring some benefit to larger groups of students, although information about these options was slow to reach parents.

This sounds exactly like what is happening this year; there's just more outrage because it's hitting a larger number of students and there are even fewer magnet MS spots compared to CES spots.

I am hopeful that MCPS is moving in the right direction to identify larger numbers of highly capable students and to provide additional opportunities beyond the limited magnet spaces that currently exist. I look forward to seeing what options my child has once she hits middle school.

The test your kid took was just the COGAT screener, It is 30 minutes long and cannot meaningfully assess very much. The test these kids took was the full COGAT, 6x the length. The outage is that these kids have higher percentiles on the full COGAT, than many of the kids accepted (especially Eastern). These kids were penalized for being in the centers. It is actually a very small amount of parents upset, with a common theme -- HGC kid and 99%.

3. 3 times the length. The screener has one section per battery, 3 batteries total, the full test is 3 sections per 3 batteries, 9 total.

Just thought you might want to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am rooting for the poor kids from Rockville and Gaithersburg who now have a chance they never dreamed they would. Maybe MCPS just created 20 more doctors and engineers than we would have had before. The just special snowflakes in Bethesda will do just fine no matter what middle school they go to.

Funny you should say that, because one kid I know from our ES - in Rockville, mind you - who got into TPMS is a son of Chinese immigrants, a PhD and a doctor turned RN here. They were prepping him for the HGC first (he was waitlisted) and then for the magnet test at a Dr-Li-type Saturday school. He scored the coveted 99%, and got in, probably because he didn't attend a CES.

And the funniest thing is, with that much parental pressure, that child, while no 'Bethesda special snowflake", would have done just fine no matter what middle school he would have gone to.

Flame away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am rooting for the poor kids from Rockville and Gaithersburg who now have a chance they never dreamed they would. Maybe MCPS just created 20 more doctors and engineers than we would have had before. The just special snowflakes in Bethesda will do just fine no matter what middle school they go to.

Funny you should say that, because one kid I know from our ES - in Rockville, mind you - who got into TPMS is a son of Chinese immigrants, a PhD and a doctor turned RN here. They were prepping him for the HGC first (he was waitlisted) and then for the magnet test at a Dr-Li-type Saturday school. He scored the coveted 99%, and got in, probably because he didn't attend a CES.

And the funniest thing is, with that much parental pressure, that child, while no 'Bethesda special snowflake", would have done just fine no matter what middle school he would have gone to.

Flame away.

yup. and our HHI is $400K and we’re in gaithersburg, but you know — poor kids from gaithersburg and rockville, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am rooting for the poor kids from Rockville and Gaithersburg who now have a chance they never dreamed they would. Maybe MCPS just created 20 more doctors and engineers than we would have had before. The just special snowflakes in Bethesda will do just fine no matter what middle school they go to.

Funny you should say that, because one kid I know from our ES - in Rockville, mind you - who got into TPMS is a son of Chinese immigrants, a PhD and a doctor turned RN here. They were prepping him for the HGC first (he was waitlisted) and then for the magnet test at a Dr-Li-type Saturday school. He scored the coveted 99%, and got in, probably because he didn't attend a CES.

And the funniest thing is, with that much parental pressure, that child, while no 'Bethesda special snowflake", would have done just fine no matter what middle school he would have gone to.

Flame away.

yup. and our HHI is $400K and we’re in gaithersburg, but you know — poor kids from gaithersburg and rockville, right?

Right!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:open up two more magnet programs then. not in east county.

Yes. Open as many magnets as it takes for my kid to get in one, and make sure that it's convenient to my home.

^^^to clarify -- I am not being sincere.

200+ schools 160,000+ students and what teeny weeny portion is actual magnet seats in MS and in HS?

run the numbers for the NYC schools, bet its 5x as many seats for outstanding students than MCPS. That's a real shame. Underserved.

12,000 5th graders in 2016-17, 375 (125 + 100 + 75 + 75) MS application magnet seats per grade, so just over 3%. What do you consider to be the appropriate percentage?

I am sure the test cost MCPS a lot of money. If they want to select top 3%, why did they recommend 4000, or 50% students of the down county students, to take the test? MCPS leadership seems incompetent to identify talent and wasted a lot of money in the process of selecting students for the magnets.

Because this year the purpose of the test was not simply to find your kid and put them in a magnet, or just to find 200 kids for the magnets. In fact, it was to assess the feasibility of the pilot program, and to identify students for that. Between the pilot and the magnets they probably need 600 or more students. It wouldn't do to just use the 600 who typically self-select to take the magnet test. They needed a much larger pool. Everyone was so focused on the changes to the magnet process, they didn't realize MCPS was working on this other rollout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:open up two more magnet programs then. not in east county.

Yes. Open as many magnets as it takes for my kid to get in one, and make sure that it's convenient to my home.

^^^to clarify -- I am not being sincere.

200+ schools 160,000+ students and what teeny weeny portion is actual magnet seats in MS and in HS?

run the numbers for the NYC schools, bet its 5x as many seats for outstanding students than MCPS. That's a real shame. Underserved.

12,000 5th graders in 2016-17, 375 (125 + 100 + 75 + 75) MS application magnet seats per grade, so just over 3%. What do you consider to be the appropriate percentage?

I am sure the test cost MCPS a lot of money. If they want to select top 3%, why did they recommend 4000, or 50% students of the down county students, to take the test? MCPS leadership seems incompetent to identify talent and wasted a lot of money in the process of selecting students for the magnets.

Because this year the purpose of the test was not simply to find your kid and put them in a magnet, or just to find 200 kids for the magnets. In fact, it was to assess the feasibility of the pilot program, and to identify students for that. Between the pilot and the magnets they probably need 600 or more students. It wouldn't do to just use the 600 who typically self-select to take the magnet test. They needed a much larger pool. Everyone was so focused on the changes to the magnet process, they didn't realize MCPS was working on this other rollout.

+1 And this is how MCPS plans to address the diversity/achievement gap identified in the Metis report. MCPS knew that it couldn't legally use race as a factor for Eastern/TPMS magnets. I have three friends whose kids got into the magnets (BTW all white) and like others who reported on the board, based on the make-up of the room for accepted parents, all three independently reported that there were 10-15 identifiable URM kids in the room. I believe that when the final enrollment numbers are released next year you will see that yes, the number of Asian students has decreased, but the number of white students will have increased and the number of URMs will have slightly (e.g., 8 to 12) increased. Because MCPS used peer group/geographic area as criteria in the selection process, most Asian students are at a disadvantage because they are highly clustered in a few high performing schools.

I think MCPS planned the rollout of the field test sites at 20 MS all along to accomplish three goals: 1) address pressure from parents with highly able students that are not served in their middle schools; 2) avoid opening new magnets, which would significantly increase costs (e.g., busing, staff, facilities, etc.); and 3) address the diversity issue discussed in the Metis report. By piloting magnet-like courses in local middle schools they can increase the number of ESOL/URM/FARM students receiving enrichment. MCPS doesn't have to worry about universal test score cutoffs because they have identified peer groups in each MS cluster with similar high scores and invited the outliers to the 2 magnet schools. In other words, Cold Spring kids that are invited to take the courses in their middle schools may all be 98%+, but kids at a lower performing MS may be 90%+ to fill a class with 25 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am rooting for the poor kids from Rockville and Gaithersburg who now have a chance they never dreamed they would. Maybe MCPS just created 20 more doctors and engineers than we would have had before. The just special snowflakes in Bethesda will do just fine no matter what middle school they go to.

Funny you should say that, because one kid I know from our ES - in Rockville, mind you - who got into TPMS is a son of Chinese immigrants, a PhD and a doctor turned RN here. They were prepping him for the HGC first (he was waitlisted) and then for the magnet test at a Dr-Li-type Saturday school. He scored the coveted 99%, and got in, probably because he didn't attend a CES.

And the funniest thing is, with that much parental pressure, that child, while no 'Bethesda special snowflake", would have done just fine no matter what middle school he would have gone to.

Flame away.

yup. and our HHI is $400K and we’re in gaithersburg, but you know — poor kids from gaithersburg and rockville, right?

Relatedly, we're in Silver Spring and our home school did great in this cycle for middle school magnet admissions. Some of our HGC kids also got in, but home school did fine by its own rights. So, maybe the answer is for all the CS folks to move to the East Side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:open up two more magnet programs then. not in east county.

Yes. Open as many magnets as it takes for my kid to get in one, and make sure that it's convenient to my home.

^^^to clarify -- I am not being sincere.

200+ schools 160,000+ students and what teeny weeny portion is actual magnet seats in MS and in HS?

run the numbers for the NYC schools, bet its 5x as many seats for outstanding students than MCPS. That's a real shame. Underserved.

12,000 5th graders in 2016-17, 375 (125 + 100 + 75 + 75) MS application magnet seats per grade, so just over 3%. What do you consider to be the appropriate percentage?

I am sure the test cost MCPS a lot of money. If they want to select top 3%, why did they recommend 4000, or 50% students of the down county students, to take the test? MCPS leadership seems incompetent to identify talent and wasted a lot of money in the process of selecting students for the magnets.

Because this year the purpose of the test was not simply to find your kid and put them in a magnet, or just to find 200 kids for the magnets. In fact, it was to assess the feasibility of the pilot program, and to identify students for that. Between the pilot and the magnets they probably need 600 or more students. It wouldn't do to just use the 600 who typically self-select to take the magnet test. They needed a much larger pool. Everyone was so focused on the changes to the magnet process, they didn't realize MCPS was working on this other rollout.

+1 And this is how MCPS plans to address the diversity/achievement gap identified in the Metis report. MCPS knew that it couldn't legally use race as a factor for Eastern/TPMS magnets. I have three friends whose kids got into the magnets (BTW all white) and like others who reported on the board, based on the make-up of the room for accepted parents, all three independently reported that there were 10-15 identifiable URM kids in the room. I believe that when the final enrollment numbers are released next year you will see that yes, the number of Asian students has decreased, but the number of white students will have increased and the number of URMs will have slightly (e.g., 8 to 12) increased. Because MCPS used peer group/geographic area as criteria in the selection process, most Asian students are at a disadvantage because they are highly clustered in a few high performing schools.

I think MCPS planned the rollout of the field test sites at 20 MS all along to accomplish three goals: 1) address pressure from parents with highly able students that are not served in their middle schools; 2) avoid opening new magnets, which would significantly increase costs (e.g., busing, staff, facilities, etc.); and 3) address the diversity issue discussed in the Metis report. By piloting magnet-like courses in local middle schools they can increase the number of ESOL/URM/FARM students receiving enrichment. MCPS doesn't have to worry about universal test score cutoffs because they have identified peer groups in each MS cluster with similar high scores and invited the outliers to the 2 magnet schools. In other words, Cold Spring kids that are invited to take the courses in their middle schools may all be 98%+, but kids at a lower performing MS may be 90%+ to fill a class with 25 kids.

Make sense of how they identify highly capable kids, but seriously still unfair to those kids who happen to be in the cluster to receive academic programming that is not up to the level of the actual magnets'.

[Anonymous]

Truly bizarre if MCPS has decided that clusters that have the largest number of high performing students will get the least ito accelerated and enriched curriculum. That is so backwards.

[Anonymous]

According to the GT PTA heads as reported on the GT list serve, there are 25 middle schools that feed into the Takoma/ Eastern magnets. MCPS was initially going to roll out the pilot classes at 10 schools in the field study cachement area, which is all 25 of those schools,, but in response to advocacy decided to roll out at least one class in all 20 schools that don’t already have some kind of magnet in them (Takoma/Eastern and Parkland/Loiderman/Argyle)- in other words, the 20 schools listed in that MCPS notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Truly bizarre if MCPS has decided that clusters that have the largest number of high performing students will get the least ito accelerated and enriched curriculum. That is so backwards.

Not if you consider the goals of the Metis report, whether you agree or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Highly Gifted students are different from advance students. They are in many ways special needs students who will do well with being with a cohort of like-ability students.

Now, Metis and MCPS can continue to do what they want to do, but the achievement gap can never be bridged in this country. The reason is that MCPS cannot change the parents that the low achieving group students have, nor can they change the educational level and cultural habits of these parents.

The only way AA achievement gap can be filled is by importing Black families from Africa and other countries. They are the only group of Black students who are doing well.

Actually, the achievement gap can be narrowed if the schools are allowed to do more. Instead of just giving bad grade when students don't do their homework, teachers can force the students stay at school until all homeworks are done. Instead of just offering remedial classes in summer, make it a requirement for those who had a gpa 2.5 or lower. You can't make everything voluntary and let the parents to decide if the whole point is to make up what is lacking from the parents.

[Anonymous]

9:41, I like your analysis of the question. Don’t you wonder which 10 schools were identified for the original 10-school field test prior to the data coming in from the CogAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9:41, I like your analysis of the question. Don’t you wonder which 10 schools were identified for the original 10-school field test prior to the data coming in from the CogAT?

Yes I do and I think many of W school feeders (e.g., Cold Spring) were not included in the original 10 schools. As another poster posted from the GT listserv, parent advocacy/complaints from those areas extended the list to 20.