Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Several of my uncles did not go to college. One of them (who is actually just a few years older than me) married a woman who did not graduate from college. They are lovely people but they've really struggled financially. They've never had any real intellectual interests or pursuits and did not provide a rich learning environment for their kids. But they did the best they could by their kids and tried to support their interests. Their older son struggled in high school, started community college but dropped out, and now, in his late 20s, appears to support himself as a small-time drug dealer. Not a success story.

But their younger son was good in math. Really good. My uncle and aunt had no way to help him. Once he got to algebra, they couldn't help with homework. He went to a pretty crappy high school with not many opportunities to pursue advanced math. They could not afford tutors and knew nothing of SAT prep. But he had decent grades and solid SAT scores. He went to community college for 2 years and then was accepted to a decent college (ranked in the 50s on the USNWR university list) and got some financial aid. He lived at home all through college, and he and his parents worked their butts off to pay for it.

Last spring he was accepted to a fully funded Ph.D. program. At MIT.

I'm guessing he's pretty happy no one decided he was washed up at 18.

Great story, but literally 1 in a million - an outlier. 9 out of 10 from this background end up more like the oldest.

[Anonymous]

My DH and I have no college fund saved for our kids. We are both highly educated, and we have put our money into real estate. While we can afford most of the in state tuition for both our kids, we also want them to get academic scholarships and start earning during college. We have invested greatly into their other pursuits, sports and tutoring and private schools now. If they insist on going into a school we can't afford fully from our salaries, we'll help as much as we can but the rest is up to them. DS is on the path to get at least a partial sport's scholarship and academic and quite frankly, UMD is a great school, that we can afford, and if they want to go somewhere else, they can find a way. I am more educated than DH and earn 20 times less than he does, so in the end all that education didn't matter due to my choices to mostly spend time with my kids and work part time. Kids who want it will find a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several of my uncles did not go to college. One of them (who is actually just a few years older than me) married a woman who did not graduate from college. They are lovely people but they've really struggled financially. They've never had any real intellectual interests or pursuits and did not provide a rich learning environment for their kids. But they did the best they could by their kids and tried to support their interests. Their older son struggled in high school, started community college but dropped out, and now, in his late 20s, appears to support himself as a small-time drug dealer. Not a success story.

But their younger son was good in math. Really good. My uncle and aunt had no way to help him. Once he got to algebra, they couldn't help with homework. He went to a pretty crappy high school with not many opportunities to pursue advanced math. They could not afford tutors and knew nothing of SAT prep. But he had decent grades and solid SAT scores. He went to community college for 2 years and then was accepted to a decent college (ranked in the 50s on the USNWR university list) and got some financial aid. He lived at home all through college, and he and his parents worked their butts off to pay for it.

Last spring he was accepted to a fully funded Ph.D. program. At MIT.

I'm guessing he's pretty happy no one decided he was washed up at 18.

Great story, but literally 1 in a million - an outlier. 9 out of 10 from this background end up more like the oldest.

So, they probably shouldn't have bothered, that's the lesson you would draw from this story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several of my uncles did not go to college. One of them (who is actually just a few years older than me) married a woman who did not graduate from college. They are lovely people but they've really struggled financially. They've never had any real intellectual interests or pursuits and did not provide a rich learning environment for their kids. But they did the best they could by their kids and tried to support their interests. Their older son struggled in high school, started community college but dropped out, and now, in his late 20s, appears to support himself as a small-time drug dealer. Not a success story.

But their younger son was good in math. Really good. My uncle and aunt had no way to help him. Once he got to algebra, they couldn't help with homework. He went to a pretty crappy high school with not many opportunities to pursue advanced math. They could not afford tutors and knew nothing of SAT prep. But he had decent grades and solid SAT scores. He went to community college for 2 years and then was accepted to a decent college (ranked in the 50s on the USNWR university list) and got some financial aid. He lived at home all through college, and he and his parents worked their butts off to pay for it.

Last spring he was accepted to a fully funded Ph.D. program. At MIT.

I'm guessing he's pretty happy no one decided he was washed up at 18.

Great story, but literally 1 in a million - an outlier. 9 out of 10 from this background end up more like the oldest.

Also, if you really think that 9 out of 10 kids from "this background" end up dealing drugs, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have no college fund saved for our kids. We are both highly educated, and we have put our money into real estate. While we can afford most of the in state tuition for both our kids, we also want them to get academic scholarships and start earning during college. We have invested greatly into their other pursuits, sports and tutoring and private schools now. If they insist on going into a school we can't afford fully from our salaries, we'll help as much as we can but the rest is up to them. DS is on the path to get at least a partial sport's scholarship and academic and quite frankly, UMD is a great school, that we can afford, and if they want to go somewhere else, they can find a way. I am more educated than DH and earn 20 times less than he does, so in the end all that education didn't matter due to my choices to mostly spend time with my kids and work part time. Kids who want it will find a way.

Your kids have had every benefit along the way though - sports, tutoring and private schools. Have OP's nephews? It doesn't sound like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the trailer park

Go fuck yourself.

Is that trailer park enough for you?

Congratulations on being raised by parents who had plenty of money and privilege. Not every one does. Unfortunately, all that privilege results in a terminal lack of empathy for some. Maybe therapy could help you with that, but I am not sure.

It's not a money thing; it's a low culture-stupidity-ego-power thing. I don't judge anyone for having less money - but I do judge ignorant adults jeopardizing their children's futures because they're too stupid to take a step back and realize college prep isn't their wheelhouse and welcome the generous help. It really boils down to "Ain't no uppity aunt and uncle gonna tell me what's best for me (step) kids."

Do you know how much plumbers make? Or welders? Or really talented hair stylists?

OP, you have to be one of the most ignorant snobs ever produced by dcum.

Remember, one does not need to graduate from Harvard or an ivy to have a rich and fulfilling life.

And even more important, you only need to look at the value systems of fields like the finance field, big law and politics to easily see that all that money spent on those prestigious degrees does nothing to create kind, empathetic, moral people with rich and rewarding lives who make the world a better place.

In fact, if you want your nephews to be good people who are kind and happy, you really should lower your snob treshold and get in contact with the rest of the world.

Not OP. I agree going to Harvard or an Ivy is not the secret to a happy successful life but it's hard to argue that a college education doesn't open additional doors for you. At worst you are in the same place. You can still be a plumber or a welder or a hair stylist with a college degree. Can't be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher without one.

[Anonymous]

wow! a ton of nasty people! bad hair day? Give OP a break - she'd like to see these kids get a chance for a higher education. But, she should stay on the sidelines. If the kids decide they do want to go to college then she can provide some support.

[Anonymous]

Your sister sounded willing to accept your help. If she doesn't fight for this with her dh there is nothing you can do.

[Anonymous]

OP cites a lot of stats. I would like to see the stats that if these kids don't get into the college of OP's choice that there's a 95% chance they're going to be 'deadbeats'. While its great that OP wants to help her family, it all seems very alarmist and All-or-Nothing stakes, which isn't very helpful (besides not being statistically accurate). Even if BIL were to agree to the math prep stuff, it's very difficult to shoehorn teenage boys into an exact path of best statistical chances of success....whatever that might be.

Why not help out a bit if you can - even if the kids aren't taking what you think is the ideal path? For example, OP cites a 50% dropout rate at VCU - I'm betting that a good part of that is issues with finances. It's the sort of situation where a little boost can often make a HUGE difference, and then OP wouldn't have to be worried on the return from a $100k investment - it would be more along the lines of maybe $$10-20k or so. ( Hopefully not enough to keep OP up at night worrying about returns. )

FWIW, I went to a rural high school with a LOT of people with backgrounds similar to OP's nephews. Many did some sort of community college/local state school - very few went to schools that were the equivalent of UVA or W&M. 20 years later, most of them seem to be doing ok. Some are doing better than others, but it's certainly not anywhere close to a 95% deadbeat results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP cites a 50% dropout rate at VCU - I'm betting that a good part of that is issues with finances.

That's what you hear, but it's really because we let in far too many that are too far behind, too immature, and have no study skills. They require two years of remedial courses and even then very few ever really catch up. I've witnessed hundreds of low-income kids with full rides fail out before freshman year is over.

In 2013, 77% of adults from families in the top income quartile earned at least bachelor’s degrees by the time they turned 24 ... but 9% of people from the lowest income bracket did the same in 2013.

Less than one in five college students from the lowest income bracket completed a bachelor’s degree by age 24 in 2013. Among students from top-earning families, meanwhile, 99% of students who enrolled completed their degrees.

[Anonymous]

You all act as if OPs nephews live in the projects. As if they are kids from The Wire or some such other show. They are average working class kids. They may grow up to be average working class adults. Nothing wrong with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP cites a 50% dropout rate at VCU - I'm betting that a good part of that is issues with finances.

That's what you hear, but it's really because we let in far too many that are too far behind, too immature, and have no study skills. They require two years of remedial courses and even then very few ever really catch up. I've witnessed hundreds of low-income kids with full rides fail out before freshman year is over.

In 2013, 77% of adults from families in the top income quartile earned at least bachelor’s degrees by the time they turned 24 ... but 9% of people from the lowest income bracket did the same in 2013.

Less than one in five college students from the lowest income bracket completed a bachelor’s degree by age 24 in 2013. Among students from top-earning families, meanwhile, 99% of students who enrolled completed their degrees.

Op estimated the family's hhi at about 130k. Pretty sure that puts them in the top quarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP cites a 50% dropout rate at VCU - I'm betting that a good part of that is issues with finances.

That's what you hear, but it's really because we let in far too many that are too far behind, too immature, and have no study skills. They require two years of remedial courses and even then very few ever really catch up. I've witnessed hundreds of low-income kids with full rides fail out before freshman year is over.

In 2013, 77% of adults from families in the top income quartile earned at least bachelor’s degrees by the time they turned 24 ... but 9% of people from the lowest income bracket did the same in 2013.

Less than one in five college students from the lowest income bracket completed a bachelor’s degree by age 24 in 2013. Among students from top-earning families, meanwhile, 99% of students who enrolled completed their degrees.

Op estimated the family's hhi at about 130k. Pretty sure that puts them in the top quarter.

according to CBO, anything above $88k in 2013 (market income,pre-tax and before gov transfers) would put them in the fourth highest quintile. The lowest quintile has an income of $15,800 before government transfer. It looks like these college completion stats (wherever they come from) seem to lend more support to the thought that OP's nephews should have fairly good odds of completing a four year degree.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/51361-HouseholdIncomeFedTaxes_OneCol.pdf

[Anonymous]

I'm not reading that whole mess. I don't know if OP is still reading. But my brother and his now-ex-wife were similar. I started a 529 plan for my nephew. Still have it, even though the ex-wife is now making tons of money. (Brother refuses to pay for college).

If my nephew needs the money for college, he can use it. If not, I'll transfer it in to my kids' names. It's an option worth considering. They are adults when they go to college. You won't be interfering with your BIL like math tutors and SAT prep classes do.

[Anonymous]

My DH and his colleagues hold PhDs in engineering and robotics from places like MIT and Michigan. They each earn salaries around $130K. Thanks for the gut punch that this salary level is just "decent". We actually feel fortunate. Maybe your BIL had a fit because he has zero tolerance for your elitist attitude toward him..