single income family/ SAHM major disadvantage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always laugh at all the sahms who think having high salary good jobs consumes so much of life that you have no time for your kids or ability to attend to the home life.

This is either a delusion you tell yourself to justify not working, or if you're basing this on your husband working crazy hours, then your husband is either terrible at his job or he hates his family since he's choosing to spend all his time at work. All the men and women i know in the best, highest paying careers have pretty flexible lives. It's the people in low and middle class jobs that have the crappy life and no flexibility. But most men and women with high paying successful careers who want to carve out time for their families absolutely can. If your husband "needed" you to stay home to succeed at his job, sounds like he's not very good at his job.

Interestingly, the exception to the above is... doctors, who often are required to work very long hours, depending on specialty. And for that reason, make absolutely lousy uninvolved husbands and fathers. My friends married to doctors are all miserable, or alternatively, have little to do with their husbands in order to stay happy. Yuck. Good luck to the OP's daughter.

This is DC. The majority of high paying jobs come from law, where you dedicate your every waking hour to hit 2k+ billable hours a year.

The majority of high earners here work long hours

Most people making $500K+ work long hours. There is no magical job where you get that much for 40 hour weeks and tons of flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is possible to have a single family income and SAHM but that requires a lot of lowered expectations.
No private school, almost no eating out, almost no vacations, hand me down clothing, etc...
The above is possible during the early years because who wants to take toddlers out to dinner or on vacation?

The sweet spot is to take advantage of full-time school to secure a part-time job. That would allow additional income to buttress the additional expenses of children's extracurriculars and the increasingly expensive family life.

SAHM-hood is great but gets awfully boring when the kids are late teens getting ready for college.
Having a mom who works is inspirational for kids too and gives them a model for "can-do".
I have been both and, well, each family is different with different needs.

Or you can have a single income and have all of that. It depends upon the salary of the single income.

And also, a PT job "while the kids are in school" is difficult. Do you know how many days the kids have off? It would have to be a very flexible job to allow that. When my kids were little, we used to joke that there is never a month with every day in school (Sept even has holidays in HoCo), then Teacher in service days start in October, PT conferences in Nov, and Snow and other stuff starts in Dec. Rarely do kids go to school 5 days a week for the full month.

And what do you do with a sick kid? Until MS+, you cannot just leave them at home all day, you have to be there with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always laugh at all the sahms who think having high salary good jobs consumes so much of life that you have no time for your kids or ability to attend to the home life.

This is either a delusion you tell yourself to justify not working, or if you're basing this on your husband working crazy hours, then your husband is either terrible at his job or he hates his family since he's choosing to spend all his time at work. All the men and women i know in the best, highest paying careers have pretty flexible lives. It's the people in low and middle class jobs that have the crappy life and no flexibility. But most men and women with high paying successful careers who want to carve out time for their families absolutely can. If your husband "needed" you to stay home to succeed at his job, sounds like he's not very good at his job.

Interestingly, the exception to the above is... doctors, who often are required to work very long hours, depending on specialty. And for that reason, make absolutely lousy uninvolved husbands and fathers. My friends married to doctors are all miserable, or alternatively, have little to do with their husbands in order to stay happy. Yuck. Good luck to the OP's daughter.

This is DC. The majority of high paying jobs come from law, where you dedicate your every waking hour to hit 2k+ billable hours a year.

The majority of high earners here work long hours

They work long hours but all find time to attend kids’ events that personally interest them…usually sporting events.

That may mean they leave the office at 3, go watch a game for 2 hours and then work from home after dinner.

I coached my kid’s LL with two law partners (one from Hogan and the other at Steptoe)…they rarely missed a practice or any midweek games.

But then are likely back to the office (or home office) working until 10pm+.

Some have flexibility, but that comes at a higher level. While getting to that level, you don't have as much flexibility (not to attend 2-3 practices and games each week during the "workday").

[Anonymous]

If you have multiple kids back to back it is a luxury to be a working Mom. My old neighbor for instance had a 2, 5, 7 and 9 year old. We lived a few hundred feet elementary school. We both could see school from our front steps. It would be a fortune for daycare. Plus we both had smaller starter homes with low taxes, no HOA fees and I mowed our lawn myself and wife cooked meals. We had two used cars. Was a simple happy life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in well paying jobs, I’ve noticed that the men with SAHMs notice the men with the same jobs but who have wives who work have less pressure and more income and are envious especially if the spouse has good enough hours they do a lot of the SAHM duties.

Yeah but what woman wants to work FT (or even nearly FT) and “do a lot of the SAHM duties”? Who would sign up for that?

As a SAHM to a high earner husband I do NOT think mine is the ideal. I think the ideal is TWO flexible family friends jobs with TWO fully engaged parents. But I didn’t know this when I got married at 24 to someone attending law school. My mom worked AND did everything at home and I saw how miserable she was. My dad worked but did nothing else.

Genuine question: if that’s what you saw in your parents’ marriage, why did you sign up for a similar arrangement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in well paying jobs, I’ve noticed that the men with SAHMs notice the men with the same jobs but who have wives who work have less pressure and more income and are envious especially if the spouse has good enough hours they do a lot of the SAHM duties.

Yeah but what woman wants to work FT (or even nearly FT) and “do a lot of the SAHM duties”? Who would sign up for that?

As a SAHM to a high earner husband I do NOT think mine is the ideal. I think the ideal is TWO flexible family friends jobs with TWO fully engaged parents. But I didn’t know this when I got married at 24 to someone attending law school. My mom worked AND did everything at home and I saw how miserable she was. My dad worked but did nothing else.

Genuine question: if that’s what you saw in your parents’ marriage, why did you sign up for a similar arrangement?

Sorry I misread. You said your mom worked too. Disregard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a gen z son, recent college grad who landed a great job, but lives at home while he invests al his income he would otherwise spend on housing/commute/ utilities (we live 2 miles from his job). He is adamant that he only marries someone who put their education to work and earns an income. I think this generation (z) is acutely aware that it’s unrealistic in today’s economy to not have all hands on deck when raising a family.

I understand this attitude and largely agree with it, but I also think a lot of ambitious young people do not (and literally cannot) understand how significantly an infant/toddler will upend one’s working life and how differential these impacts are for women vs. men. Most modern workplace are still extremely hostile to breastfeeding and recovering new mothers.

I have a friend who was in a dual income household until they had their second kid - she was working in a rundown hospital, shuttling kids to and from daycares, lugging and rinsing out pumping equipment to use in a dark office room with a door that didn’t adequately lock, etc. After many open discussions she and her husband mutually agreed to her staying home for the next few years and then reevaluating later. She is much happier now. I wouldn’t want to be with a partner who rigidly demanded that I stay at an untenable job - I think it just has to be an ongoing open conversation and both parties have to be transparent and respectful of each other’s contributions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in awe of my classmates from college and medical school. Many of them are now partners at law firms married to a physician or another high level professional. I guess jobs now are more flexible as some have over 3 kids. I’m estimating their joint incomes to be 500-800k across the board. Growing up, it seemed that being a SAHM with high earner dad was high status/ privileged but now it’s having now having a mom as a law partner / dad surgeon with tons of money in your 529k. I bet this means that young men now are looking to marry someone who can put them into that next tax bracket vs sometime we can care for the kids.

Money makes life comfortable but more money after a certain level doesn't make relationships better. If that was the case my physician group wouldn't have relationship issues and shark lawyers as most discussed topic. Obviously SAHM partners are only good if they actually are willing and capable of happily managing family as a 75/25 partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is possible to have a single family income and SAHM but that requires a lot of lowered expectations.
No private school, almost no eating out, almost no vacations, hand me down clothing, etc...
The above is possible during the early years because who wants to take toddlers out to dinner or on vacation?

The sweet spot is to take advantage of full-time school to secure a part-time job. That would allow additional income to buttress the additional expenses of children's extracurriculars and the increasingly expensive family life.

SAHM-hood is great but gets awfully boring when the kids are late teens getting ready for college.
Having a mom who works is inspirational for kids too and gives them a model for "can-do".
I have been both and, well, each family is different with different needs.

You are correct. Every family is different with different needs. I have not yet found being SAHM/SAHW boring. When I am SAH-grandma, I will not find that boring too. How unevolved are you that you do not know what to do with your free time? If you can find fulfillment only in doing routine 9-5 work...well, that's on you. You are certainly serving someone's interest.

As a SAHM (DH makes decent amount) -
- we were able to afford a brand new SFH,
- we ate out very frequently,
- we had international vacations every year,
- my kids had all the gear and clothes that they needed,
- my kids went to magnet programs in public schools,
- they got full merit scholarships in state college, paying peanuts to major in dual majors,
- we always had a twice-weekly cleaner, lawn company, part time chef
- we entertained a lot and had help to do that.
- we had tutors and coaches for my kids, they had expensive ECs, and we travelled for the ECs, we could afford all the camps etc
- we have been able to save for all our needs - college, retirement, travel, kids weddings, kids cars, down payments for kids first condo etc.

Your kids need you even more in MS-HS years. And once my kids went to college, we continued to provide support and input to them. When you are a SAH grandmother, your kids may need you even more.

BTW - my DH is a very dedicated dad and as a SAHM, I made sure that all his free time was spent in spending time with the family, his hobbies, family travel, socializing, and family obligation. I could buy back time for him because I took care of everything else.

I have been in both situations - SAHM and WOHM. And no amount of outsourcing as a WOHM could make up for not having endless time with my children. However, I absolutely find it valuable to outsource all chores (except child rearing) that you can so that you have more time to be valuable to your kids well-being and growth, even as a SAHM - if you can afford it.

Being a SAHM (rich enough to outsource some routine work and tap into resources to create opportunities for your family and yourself) gives you and your family precious time.

Time is the only non-renewable resource in your life.

[Anonymous]

I mean I'll also be honest, I work because I like it. I went to college and law school and pushed really hard because I like it. I think for me I'm a better mom for working, I don't think I'd do well mentally as a SAHM. I do a more flexible lawyer job so I'm home more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is possible to have a single family income and SAHM but that requires a lot of lowered expectations.
No private school, almost no eating out, almost no vacations, hand me down clothing, etc...
The above is possible during the early years because who wants to take toddlers out to dinner or on vacation?

The sweet spot is to take advantage of full-time school to secure a part-time job. That would allow additional income to buttress the additional expenses of children's extracurriculars and the increasingly expensive family life.

SAHM-hood is great but gets awfully boring when the kids are late teens getting ready for college.
Having a mom who works is inspirational for kids too and gives them a model for "can-do".
I have been both and, well, each family is different with different needs.

You are correct. Every family is different with different needs. I have not yet found being SAHM/SAHW boring. When I am SAH-grandma, I will not find that boring too. How unevolved are you that you do not know what to do with your free time? If you can find fulfillment only in doing routine 9-5 work...well, that's on you. You are certainly serving someone's interest.

As a SAHM (DH makes decent amount) -
- we were able to afford a brand new SFH,
- we ate out very frequently,
- we had international vacations every year,
- my kids had all the gear and clothes that they needed,
- my kids went to magnet programs in public schools,
- they got full merit scholarships in state college, paying peanuts to major in dual majors,
- we always had a twice-weekly cleaner, lawn company, part time chef
- we entertained a lot and had help to do that.
- we had tutors and coaches for my kids, they had expensive ECs, and we travelled for the ECs, we could afford all the camps etc
- we have been able to save for all our needs - college, retirement, travel, kids weddings, kids cars, down payments for kids first condo etc.

Your kids need you even more in MS-HS years. And once my kids went to college, we continued to provide support and input to them. When you are a SAH grandmother, your kids may need you even more.

BTW - my DH is a very dedicated dad and as a SAHM, I made sure that all his free time was spent in spending time with the family, his hobbies, family travel, socializing, and family obligation. I could buy back time for him because I took care of everything else.

I have been in both situations - SAHM and WOHM. And no amount of outsourcing as a WOHM could make up for not having endless time with my children. However, I absolutely find it valuable to outsource all chores (except child rearing) that you can so that you have more time to be valuable to your kids well-being and growth, even as a SAHM - if you can afford it.

Being a SAHM (rich enough to outsource some routine work and tap into resources to create opportunities for your family and yourself) gives you and your family precious time.

Time is the only non-renewable resource in your life.

All of your we statements are actually he statements - they are money driven and the only person contributing money in your family is your spouse. Someone had to work to pay for the lifestyle you enjoy. It doesn't sound like you have ever contributed financially to the family and maybe that is why you come across clueless about working and expenses. And you outsourced many of the domestic contributions. Are you a younger trophy wife?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is possible to have a single family income and SAHM but that requires a lot of lowered expectations.
No private school, almost no eating out, almost no vacations, hand me down clothing, etc...
The above is possible during the early years because who wants to take toddlers out to dinner or on vacation?

The sweet spot is to take advantage of full-time school to secure a part-time job. That would allow additional income to buttress the additional expenses of children's extracurriculars and the increasingly expensive family life.

SAHM-hood is great but gets awfully boring when the kids are late teens getting ready for college.
Having a mom who works is inspirational for kids too and gives them a model for "can-do".
I have been both and, well, each family is different with different needs.

You are correct. Every family is different with different needs. I have not yet found being SAHM/SAHW boring. When I am SAH-grandma, I will not find that boring too. How unevolved are you that you do not know what to do with your free time? If you can find fulfillment only in doing routine 9-5 work...well, that's on you. You are certainly serving someone's interest.

As a SAHM (DH makes decent amount) -
- we were able to afford a brand new SFH,
- we ate out very frequently,
- we had international vacations every year,
- my kids had all the gear and clothes that they needed,
- my kids went to magnet programs in public schools,
- they got full merit scholarships in state college, paying peanuts to major in dual majors,
- we always had a twice-weekly cleaner, lawn company, part time chef
- we entertained a lot and had help to do that.
- we had tutors and coaches for my kids, they had expensive ECs, and we travelled for the ECs, we could afford all the camps etc
- we have been able to save for all our needs - college, retirement, travel, kids weddings, kids cars, down payments for kids first condo etc.

Your kids need you even more in MS-HS years. And once my kids went to college, we continued to provide support and input to them. When you are a SAH grandmother, your kids may need you even more.

BTW - my DH is a very dedicated dad and as a SAHM, I made sure that all his free time was spent in spending time with the family, his hobbies, family travel, socializing, and family obligation. I could buy back time for him because I took care of everything else.

I have been in both situations - SAHM and WOHM. And no amount of outsourcing as a WOHM could make up for not having endless time with my children. However, I absolutely find it valuable to outsource all chores (except child rearing) that you can so that you have more time to be valuable to your kids well-being and growth, even as a SAHM - if you can afford it.

Being a SAHM (rich enough to outsource some routine work and tap into resources to create opportunities for your family and yourself) gives you and your family precious time.

Time is the only non-renewable resource in your life.

This 1000%

Having a SAHP means when everyone is together, they can be a family, and don't have to focus on "getting the basic chores and life done". When your spouse is HHI, sure you could be adding to the family $$$ but often it's at a level that is not noticed because it's not needed. We saved for retirement/college, went on very nice vacations (2-3 a year as a family, 2-3 as just the 2 of us), had cleaners/lawncare/etc and basically hired out everything except "taking care of the kids". Sure my spouse worked long hours, but they were going to do that as an executive (and moving up towards that as head of sales, etc) anyhow...you don't get to those positions or keep those positions with working 9-5 and leaving at 3pm 3 days a week for a kid's activity. Me being at home just allowed for more flexibility and much less stress (sick kid---no worries).

But me adding $200K that is taxed at almost 50% (when you include EVERYTHING) didn't seem worth it, because at some point, you don't "need more money". What you need is a peaceful life that reduces stress

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean I'll also be honest, I work because I like it. I went to college and law school and pushed really hard because I like it. I think for me I'm a better mom for working, I don't think I'd do well mentally as a SAHM. I do a more flexible lawyer job so I'm home more.

I think it's better for kids to have a working mom. It gives them another opportunity to see how you can make it in the world and another trusted adult to talk to about life's difficulties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is possible to have a single family income and SAHM but that requires a lot of lowered expectations.
No private school, almost no eating out, almost no vacations, hand me down clothing, etc...
The above is possible during the early years because who wants to take toddlers out to dinner or on vacation?

The sweet spot is to take advantage of full-time school to secure a part-time job. That would allow additional income to buttress the additional expenses of children's extracurriculars and the increasingly expensive family life.

SAHM-hood is great but gets awfully boring when the kids are late teens getting ready for college.
Having a mom who works is inspirational for kids too and gives them a model for "can-do".
I have been both and, well, each family is different with different needs.

Or you can have a single income and have all of that. It depends upon the salary of the single income.

And also, a PT job "while the kids are in school" is difficult. Do you know how many days the kids have off? It would have to be a very flexible job to allow that. When my kids were little, we used to joke that there is never a month with every day in school (Sept even has holidays in HoCo), then Teacher in service days start in October, PT conferences in Nov, and Snow and other stuff starts in Dec. Rarely do kids go to school 5 days a week for the full month.

And what do you do with a sick kid? Until MS+, you cannot just leave them at home all day, you have to be there with them.

That's kind of the point of it being part time. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always laugh at all the sahms who think having high salary good jobs consumes so much of life that you have no time for your kids or ability to attend to the home life.

This is either a delusion you tell yourself to justify not working, or if you're basing this on your husband working crazy hours, then your husband is either terrible at his job or he hates his family since he's choosing to spend all his time at work. All the men and women i know in the best, highest paying careers have pretty flexible lives. It's the people in low and middle class jobs that have the crappy life and no flexibility. But most men and women with high paying successful careers who want to carve out time for their families absolutely can. If your husband "needed" you to stay home to succeed at his job, sounds like he's not very good at his job.

Interestingly, the exception to the above is... doctors, who often are required to work very long hours, depending on specialty. And for that reason, make absolutely lousy uninvolved husbands and fathers. My friends married to doctors are all miserable, or alternatively, have little to do with their husbands in order to stay happy. Yuck. Good luck to the OP's daughter.

This is DC. The majority of high paying jobs come from law, where you dedicate your every waking hour to hit 2k+ billable hours a year.

The majority of high earners here work long hours

Most people making $500K+ work long hours. There is no magical job where you get that much for 40 hour weeks and tons of flexibility.

Finance and commercial real estate don't work long hours after the first few years.

Also PP is talking about a specific type of lawyer. Not all lawyers work those hours.

Alos 2K hours... a normal job is 2080 hours. So 2k ... that's not a lot.