Accreditors are considering dropping diversity requirements

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

That is sheer BS. The only thing at issue is RACE-based discrimination (or favoritism). First-gen / low-income students are given aid based on their financial status, not race.

Sorry, but the color of your skin should not dictate the amount of aid or preference you get.

Thank you for not addressing my comment. There are currently many issues related to financial aid hurting the poor right now as we speak, particularly for professional school. But yeah, advocate for the poor while doing nothing but sitting on your ass and complaining about black people.

Wow, the chip on your shoulder must be visible from space - your victim complex certainly is.

I said nothing at all about black people - OTC, it’s YOU who is absolutely fixated on the color of people’s skin. You know what that’s called? Racism.

That is sheer BS. The only thing at issue is RACE-based discrimination (or favoritism).

Favoritism of who? Who's receiving all this favoritism? What group could you possibly be talking about? Myanmar-Americans? White-Descendants-of-Italians? The Iroquois? You totally didn't skirt around saying what you really meant by just saying race, right

You are utterly unhinged. I truly have no idea what you’re ranting about, and it’s pretty clear you don’t either.

Classic dcum. Suddenly nothing makes sense when it’s most convenient

No, you are flat-out making no sense. Ranting about “Myanmar-Americans,” etc?

Tell us: why do you think anyone should get race-based preferences? We’ll wait.

What race were you talking about getting preferences? This is why I don’t believe you’re confused. You know exactly what you said and now want to act like I’ve said something completely out of left field.

I asked you a question first. Why do you think ANYONE should get race-based preferences - black, white, Latino, Asian, whatever? But of course, you won't answer that and instead, try and obfuscate. It's ok, we all see you.

Because no students (including white students) want to study in an environment that is overwhelmingly white or monoracial. Students (the consumers of the college product) WANT more racial/ethnic diversity. A college that can attract diverse student body is able to attract more students to matriculate there. They are in the sales business.

This is actually a pretty powerful argument FOR diversity in college. It's what most students want! Most students don't want to attend a monoracial or single gender college experience. Some do and go to all-women or HBCUs and that's great, but most want a college exp that is co-ed (and not 80-20 women-men) and racially diverse.

[Anonymous]

It hasn’t been that many generations since the Governor Wallace of Alabama stood in front of the doors at the University of Alabama so that black students could not enter.

When running for governor he said …

“ In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever”

Those greatest people he was referring to were the white people of Alabama. He ran on states rights and claimed that allowing black students into white universities was hurting the white students of Alabama. The feet of tyranny was the federal government.

Wallace would have loved Trump. We have come a long way since the 60s but aren’t there yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

It has always been nearly impossible for poor students to compete with wealthy students and compete at the highest level. It is a rare talent that can overcome large wealth differences.

It is NOT a rare talent that can overcome racial disparity. Harvard is about 15%black. Without preferences it would be 6-8% black. This is not nothing but by pushing the rope to 15% you get a situation where Harvard is cannibalizing the Columbias of the world to achieve that 15% and the least qualified black students struggle a little bit because Harvard really isn't significantly more difficult than Columbia. But then Columbia has to cannibalize the Cornells of the world and by the time Cornell tries to achieve its diversity goals it is getting URM students that would have otherwise gone to USC and Northeastern and now the differences are large enough that almost none of the URM students are among the top students and are grossly over-represented among the worst performing students. If each of these schools accepted based on merit, they would all have somewhere between 6-8% black and 8-10% hispanic with the difference going pretty evenly to asians and whites.

This isn't RWNJs saying that this is how the numbers would shake out based on race blaind admissions standards. This is Harvard and the amicus briefs saying this is how the numbers would shake out without explicit racial preferences like affimative action.

Wrong. These schools would be much more asian than White. Asian Americans are the superiors in the academic space, and white students are only kept in stable numbers because of unmeritocratic bs like extracurricular activities. Across the board, the best students are asian, rarely white european, and even more rarely white american.

The Asians that come to America are the most ambitious and dedicated families, academically successful, and they all seem to take the same route - math, science, medicine. They are laser focused on it. Out of the billions of Asians the best and brightest come here and other western countries for the opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

It has always been nearly impossible for poor students to compete with wealthy students and compete at the highest level. It is a rare talent that can overcome large wealth differences.

It is NOT a rare talent that can overcome racial disparity. Harvard is about 15%black. Without preferences it would be 6-8% black. This is not nothing but by pushing the rope to 15% you get a situation where Harvard is cannibalizing the Columbias of the world to achieve that 15% and the least qualified black students struggle a little bit because Harvard really isn't significantly more difficult than Columbia. But then Columbia has to cannibalize the Cornells of the world and by the time Cornell tries to achieve its diversity goals it is getting URM students that would have otherwise gone to USC and Northeastern and now the differences are large enough that almost none of the URM students are among the top students and are grossly over-represented among the worst performing students. If each of these schools accepted based on merit, they would all have somewhere between 6-8% black and 8-10% hispanic with the difference going pretty evenly to asians and whites.

This isn't RWNJs saying that this is how the numbers would shake out based on race blaind admissions standards. This is Harvard and the amicus briefs saying this is how the numbers would shake out without explicit racial preferences like affimative action.

Wrong. These schools would be much more asian than White. Asian Americans are the superiors in the academic space, and white students are only kept in stable numbers because of unmeritocratic bs like extracurricular activities. Across the board, the best students are asian, rarely white european, and even more rarely white american.

A kid who can juggle good grades PLUS time consuming ECs is smarter, more driven than a kid that just spends all their time on school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

It has always been nearly impossible for poor students to compete with wealthy students and compete at the highest level. It is a rare talent that can overcome large wealth differences.

It is NOT a rare talent that can overcome racial disparity. Harvard is about 15%black. Without preferences it would be 6-8% black. This is not nothing but by pushing the rope to 15% you get a situation where Harvard is cannibalizing the Columbias of the world to achieve that 15% and the least qualified black students struggle a little bit because Harvard really isn't significantly more difficult than Columbia. But then Columbia has to cannibalize the Cornells of the world and by the time Cornell tries to achieve its diversity goals it is getting URM students that would have otherwise gone to USC and Northeastern and now the differences are large enough that almost none of the URM students are among the top students and are grossly over-represented among the worst performing students. If each of these schools accepted based on merit, they would all have somewhere between 6-8% black and 8-10% hispanic with the difference going pretty evenly to asians and whites.

This isn't RWNJs saying that this is how the numbers would shake out based on race blaind admissions standards. This is Harvard and the amicus briefs saying this is how the numbers would shake out without explicit racial preferences like affimative action.

Wrong. These schools would be much more asian than White. Asian Americans are the superiors in the academic space, and white students are only kept in stable numbers because of unmeritocratic bs like extracurricular activities. Across the board, the best students are asian, rarely white european, and even more rarely white american.

The Asians that come to America are the most ambitious and dedicated families, academically successful, and they all seem to take the same route - math, science, medicine. They are laser focused on it. Out of the billions of Asians the best and brightest come here and other western countries for the opportunities.

Copium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

It has always been nearly impossible for poor students to compete with wealthy students and compete at the highest level. It is a rare talent that can overcome large wealth differences.

It is NOT a rare talent that can overcome racial disparity. Harvard is about 15%black. Without preferences it would be 6-8% black. This is not nothing but by pushing the rope to 15% you get a situation where Harvard is cannibalizing the Columbias of the world to achieve that 15% and the least qualified black students struggle a little bit because Harvard really isn't significantly more difficult than Columbia. But then Columbia has to cannibalize the Cornells of the world and by the time Cornell tries to achieve its diversity goals it is getting URM students that would have otherwise gone to USC and Northeastern and now the differences are large enough that almost none of the URM students are among the top students and are grossly over-represented among the worst performing students. If each of these schools accepted based on merit, they would all have somewhere between 6-8% black and 8-10% hispanic with the difference going pretty evenly to asians and whites.

This isn't RWNJs saying that this is how the numbers would shake out based on race blaind admissions standards. This is Harvard and the amicus briefs saying this is how the numbers would shake out without explicit racial preferences like affimative action.

Wrong. These schools would be much more asian than White. Asian Americans are the superiors in the academic space, and white students are only kept in stable numbers because of unmeritocratic bs like extracurricular activities. Across the board, the best students are asian, rarely white european, and even more rarely white american.

The Asians that come to America are the most ambitious and dedicated families, academically successful, and they all seem to take the same route - math, science, medicine. They are laser focused on it. Out of the billions of Asians the best and brightest come here and other western countries for the opportunities.

Copium.

Nope

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

It has always been nearly impossible for poor students to compete with wealthy students and compete at the highest level. It is a rare talent that can overcome large wealth differences.

It is NOT a rare talent that can overcome racial disparity. Harvard is about 15%black. Without preferences it would be 6-8% black. This is not nothing but by pushing the rope to 15% you get a situation where Harvard is cannibalizing the Columbias of the world to achieve that 15% and the least qualified black students struggle a little bit because Harvard really isn't significantly more difficult than Columbia. But then Columbia has to cannibalize the Cornells of the world and by the time Cornell tries to achieve its diversity goals it is getting URM students that would have otherwise gone to USC and Northeastern and now the differences are large enough that almost none of the URM students are among the top students and are grossly over-represented among the worst performing students. If each of these schools accepted based on merit, they would all have somewhere between 6-8% black and 8-10% hispanic with the difference going pretty evenly to asians and whites.

This isn't RWNJs saying that this is how the numbers would shake out based on race blaind admissions standards. This is Harvard and the amicus briefs saying this is how the numbers would shake out without explicit racial preferences like affimative action.

Wrong. These schools would be much more asian than White. Asian Americans are the superiors in the academic space, and white students are only kept in stable numbers because of unmeritocratic bs like extracurricular activities. Across the board, the best students are asian, rarely white european, and even more rarely white american.

The Asians that come to America are the most ambitious and dedicated families, academically successful, and they all seem to take the same route - math, science, medicine. They are laser focused on it. Out of the billions of Asians the best and brightest come here and other western countries for the opportunities.

Copium.

Nope

Yes because what you said isn’t true. There’re more Asians coming in this country to do restaurant blue collar jobs than tech science jobs.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know how much I really care either way but personally, I’d rather DEI requirements not exist. Not because diversity in general isn’t a good thing but because I’m Latina. The idea or mere appearance that I may have been selected, hired, picked because of some sort of diversity initiative really ticks me off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

That is sheer BS. The only thing at issue is RACE-based discrimination (or favoritism). First-gen / low-income students are given aid based on their financial status, not race.

Sorry, but the color of your skin should not dictate the amount of aid or preference you get.

Thank you for not addressing my comment. There are currently many issues related to financial aid hurting the poor right now as we speak, particularly for professional school. But yeah, advocate for the poor while doing nothing but sitting on your ass and complaining about black people.

Wow, the chip on your shoulder must be visible from space - your victim complex certainly is.

I said nothing at all about black people - OTC, it’s YOU who is absolutely fixated on the color of people’s skin. You know what that’s called? Racism.

That is sheer BS. The only thing at issue is RACE-based discrimination (or favoritism).

Favoritism of who? Who's receiving all this favoritism? What group could you possibly be talking about? Myanmar-Americans? White-Descendants-of-Italians? The Iroquois? You totally didn't skirt around saying what you really meant by just saying race, right

You are utterly unhinged. I truly have no idea what you’re ranting about, and it’s pretty clear you don’t either.

Classic dcum. Suddenly nothing makes sense when it’s most convenient

No, you are flat-out making no sense. Ranting about “Myanmar-Americans,” etc?

Tell us: why do you think anyone should get race-based preferences? We’ll wait.

What race were you talking about getting preferences? This is why I don’t believe you’re confused. You know exactly what you said and now want to act like I’ve said something completely out of left field.

ANY race, dumbass! Stop being deliberately obtuse and answer the question.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choosing someone for their race constitutes discriminating against someone else for their race in college applications. And of course that should be illegal.

How would people like it if some college said, “We require at least 95% white people! Oh we aren’t discriminating against black people really! We just want at least 95% white people.” Everyone would be outraged.

We should also avoid scenario 2. What’s clear amongst republicans is they want an outright reduction and make it near impossible for poor students and students of color to enter higher ed, at least the highest rungs of higher ed. They continue to sue schools who don’t have the type of diversity they want and continue to perpetuate the idea that black students are inherently worse applicants.

That is sheer BS. The only thing at issue is RACE-based discrimination (or favoritism). First-gen / low-income students are given aid based on their financial status, not race.

Sorry, but the color of your skin should not dictate the amount of aid or preference you get.

Thank you for not addressing my comment. There are currently many issues related to financial aid hurting the poor right now as we speak, particularly for professional school. But yeah, advocate for the poor while doing nothing but sitting on your ass and complaining about black people.

Wow, the chip on your shoulder must be visible from space - your victim complex certainly is.

I said nothing at all about black people - OTC, it’s YOU who is absolutely fixated on the color of people’s skin. You know what that’s called? Racism.

That is sheer BS. The only thing at issue is RACE-based discrimination (or favoritism).

Favoritism of who? Who's receiving all this favoritism? What group could you possibly be talking about? Myanmar-Americans? White-Descendants-of-Italians? The Iroquois? You totally didn't skirt around saying what you really meant by just saying race, right

You are utterly unhinged. I truly have no idea what you’re ranting about, and it’s pretty clear you don’t either.

Classic dcum. Suddenly nothing makes sense when it’s most convenient

No, you are flat-out making no sense. Ranting about “Myanmar-Americans,” etc?

Tell us: why do you think anyone should get race-based preferences? We’ll wait.

What race were you talking about getting preferences? This is why I don’t believe you’re confused. You know exactly what you said and now want to act like I’ve said something completely out of left field.

I asked you a question first. Why do you think ANYONE should get race-based preferences - black, white, Latino, Asian, whatever? But of course, you won't answer that and instead, try and obfuscate. It's ok, we all see you.

Because no students (including white students) want to study in an environment that is overwhelmingly white or monoracial. Students (the consumers of the college product) WANT more racial/ethnic diversity. A college that can attract diverse student body is able to attract more students to matriculate there. They are in the sales business.

What a totally ridiculous answer. You’re implying that diverse students couldn’t possibly be accepted on their own merit and instead have to be chosen due to their race. This is exactly why DEI needs to be a thing of the past.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would hope that we aren’t supporting the idea of being fine with schools discriminating just because the far right mod of to blame everything on DEI. It’s concerning how quickly everyone is forcing the pendulum in the exact opposite direction. People need to accept a bit of balance.

Agreed. There's research to support the better outcomes for all students who learn in diverse peer groups (and for businesses that hire diverse teams to do problem solving) so this is not really a result that should be cheered on without nuance.

I do appreciate that some policies were executed with a too heavy hand but opponents of any diversity goals or programs should realize their non-diverse students also do benefit from going to school with non-homogeneous students. My DS has said he would not want to attend a college or school that's mostly was all white or all male (which is what he himself is). He wants diversity for himself and supports all reasonable diversity programs aimed at increasing it.

When you say heavy hand, you are talking about racial discrimination and the silencing of anyone that challenged that racial discrimination. That is the only form of diversity that is prohibited.

Your son's desire to virtue signal does not justify racial discrimination. All diversity programs start out as pretty reasonable sounding and they are all slippery slopes. They all want to achieve higher diversity than the facts will allow so they end up racially discriminating a little bit, then a little bit more and eventually you get 200 point differences in SAT scores between asians and URM in order to achieve that diversity.

Perhaps it is not a dial we can adjustment. Perhaps it is an on/off switch. We either tolerate racial preferences which eventually becomes the primary driver or we abandon racial preferences.
Every racial preference should be accompanied by an argument strong enough to circumvent the 14th amendment of the constitution and the civil rights act.

In the history of racial discrimination, nobody has ever gotten it right.

The overwhelming majoirity of universities in the world have very little diversity. Are those universities providing inferior educations? What is the benefit of racial diversity they are missing out on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.chronicle.com/article/under-pressure-from-trump-the-accreditor-overseeing-harvard-proposes-nixing-dei-standards

This is a pretty big dinner of a lot of the push for diversity over merit. You think these schools are woke? This is where a lot of it comes from

The meritocracy crowd wants us to turn into china.

So it’s okay to turn into Europe but not China?

I don’t want either. I don’t want a Gaokao or an a levels system in the US. If you do, that’s…interesting, but I don’t think there’s a massive push to make high school much much harder than it currently is.

Having merit based process and taking away racist considerations is not adopting the Chinese system. And nobody cares what you want or don’t want. You can’t stop it.

? give me a step by step as to how this leads us to a "merit based process." What does merit even look like for you? No top school is choosing solely by top SAT and gpa.

Do exactly what you are doing now but identify applicants by social security number rather than name, race, sex, etc.

Back test the results to see if there are statistically significant preferences in the admissions process that are showing up along racial lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It hasn’t been that many generations since the Governor Wallace of Alabama stood in front of the doors at the University of Alabama so that black students could not enter.

When running for governor he said …

“ In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever”

Those greatest people he was referring to were the white people of Alabama. He ran on states rights and claimed that allowing black students into white universities was hurting the white students of Alabama. The feet of tyranny was the federal government.

Wallace would have loved Trump. We have come a long way since the 60s but aren’t there yet.

How completely idiotic to try and draw some kind of analogy between merit-based admissions and… Wallace?? You people need help.

The point is that ALL qualified students should be welcomed, regardless of the color of their skin. But some of you seem to think minorities will only get in based on their race and not their merit. You are the worst of the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.chronicle.com/article/under-pressure-from-trump-the-accreditor-overseeing-harvard-proposes-nixing-dei-standards

This is a pretty big dinner of a lot of the push for diversity over merit. You think these schools are woke? This is where a lot of it comes from

The meritocracy crowd wants us to turn into china.

So it’s okay to turn into Europe but not China?

I don’t want either. I don’t want a Gaokao or an a levels system in the US. If you do, that’s…interesting, but I don’t think there’s a massive push to make high school much much harder than it currently is.

There's only one segment who wants this and they actually come from those systems.... so the question is why.

They don’t like having to actually think.

So the people who want admissions based on cognitive ability and academic achievement rather than race are the ones that don't like to "actually think?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how much I really care either way but personally, I’d rather DEI requirements not exist. Not because diversity in general isn’t a good thing but because I’m Latina. The idea or mere appearance that I may have been selected, hired, picked because of some sort of diversity initiative really ticks me off.

EXACTLY.