A very uncomfortable situation- how to handle

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update OP. I’m not surprised at all.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry that act of kindness was punished, OP. I do think you did the right thing to reach out, but she just isn't open right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:hi OP here- a little update

So against a few people's advice, I called her and frankly regretted in 3 minutes in.

To be clear we are not close friends, we are friends through this group and through my sons class. I find her a little hard edged and too serious for my taste but I liked her well enough.

I called just to see if she was OK and she almost immediately went into a tirade. Not a "thanks so much for caring" didn't even bother with that (meanwhile no one from that group has reached out to her) But she got super defensive, starting talking about Israel's history, etc...very loud and strongly, my husband was in the room and told me to just cut if off. I was honestly expecting a softer, more appreciate tone- even hoping for an honest conversation (politely) to express her viewpoints. Instead it felt more like a lesson/reprimand.

So I did excuse myself politely, of course, as I had no interest in hearing the history of a country that I believe has committed a horrific genocide and for the record my husband is Jewish and strongly agrees!

I never once chimed in with said "ringleader" at the lunch, as I tend to keep those types of opinions to myself even though everyone else felt that way. However I did not like the way she came across on the phone at all. I told her I needed to be somewhere but was just calling to check in. I thought i was doing the right thing but soon realized it was a big mistake.

So there's that. Suffice to say, if she does not make it to our next get together, I will be totally fine with it.

I'm so sorry, OP. It sounds like there are some crazies in this friend group. Could you just start hanging out with the people you DO like in a smaller group? Or find a new friend group altogether?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:hi OP here- a little update

So against a few people's advice, I called her and frankly regretted in 3 minutes in.

To be clear we are not close friends, we are friends through this group and through my sons class. I find her a little hard edged and too serious for my taste but I liked her well enough.

I called just to see if she was OK and she almost immediately went into a tirade. Not a "thanks so much for caring" didn't even bother with that (meanwhile no one from that group has reached out to her) But she got super defensive, starting talking about Israel's history, etc...very loud and strongly, my husband was in the room and told me to just cut if off. I was honestly expecting a softer, more appreciate tone- even hoping for an honest conversation (politely) to express her viewpoints. Instead it felt more like a lesson/reprimand.

So I did excuse myself politely, of course, as I had no interest in hearing the history of a country that I believe has committed a horrific genocide and for the record my husband is Jewish and strongly agrees!

I never once chimed in with said "ringleader" at the lunch, as I tend to keep those types of opinions to myself even though everyone else felt that way. However I did not like the way she came across on the phone at all. I told her I needed to be somewhere but was just calling to check in. I thought i was doing the right thing but soon realized it was a big mistake.

So there's that. Suffice to say, if she does not make it to our next get together, I will be totally fine with it.

Shades of some of my best friends are Black type bigotry. Gotta be a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Nope. I am Jewish and Israel has a lot to explain and be accountable for. Existing is one term, wholesale killing is another. As Jews, we should be the most horrified. Not in my name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:hi OP here- a little update

So against a few people's advice, I called her and frankly regretted in 3 minutes in.

To be clear we are not close friends, we are friends through this group and through my sons class. I find her a little hard edged and too serious for my taste but I liked her well enough.

I called just to see if she was OK and she almost immediately went into a tirade. Not a "thanks so much for caring" didn't even bother with that (meanwhile no one from that group has reached out to her) But she got super defensive, starting talking about Israel's history, etc...very loud and strongly, my husband was in the room and told me to just cut if off. I was honestly expecting a softer, more appreciate tone- even hoping for an honest conversation (politely) to express her viewpoints. Instead it felt more like a lesson/reprimand.

So I did excuse myself politely, of course, as I had no interest in hearing the history of a country that I believe has committed a horrific genocide and for the record my husband is Jewish and strongly agrees!

I never once chimed in with said "ringleader" at the lunch, as I tend to keep those types of opinions to myself even though everyone else felt that way. However I did not like the way she came across on the phone at all. I told her I needed to be somewhere but was just calling to check in. I thought i was doing the right thing but soon realized it was a big mistake.

So there's that. Suffice to say, if she does not make it to our next get together, I will be totally fine with it.

I'm so sorry, OP. It sounds like there are some crazies in this friend group. Could you just start hanging out with the people you DO like in a smaller group? Or find a new friend group altogether?

Don't think it was the friend group, lol. Read the OP's post here a little more carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Nope. I am Jewish and Israel has a lot to explain and be accountable for. Existing is one term, wholesale killing is another. As Jews, we should be the most horrified. Not in my name.

And now OP is saying she herself is Jewish. Troll alert!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Nope. I am Jewish and Israel has a lot to explain and be accountable for. Existing is one term, wholesale killing is another. As Jews, we should be the most horrified. Not in my name.

And now OP is saying she herself is Jewish. Troll alert!

No she didnt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

Gaslighting and racism in these comments. We do not need to do the unpaid emotional labor of educating you. That expectation that Jews explain themselves and their suffering to you is deeply rooted in white supremacy which you are free to uphold - but that is called being a poor human. She does not need to add to a conversation with people engaging in racist tropes, e.g., that Jews have to answer for Israel and/or deserve to be held collectively responsible for Israel, or uphold the colorism in hyper-focus on white-presenting Palestinians where you give zero effs for Yemen, or Congo, or Sudan, or Burkina Faso. This nameless and faceless Jewish woman does not owe you a debate, actually. Jews are full people and can have different views and concerns than you. Most Jews in my circle are deeply critical of Netanyahu - but what neo-Nazis on the Right and neo-Nazis on the Left hold in common is the belief that Israel somehow does not have the right to exist, but that Jordan, or Lebanon, or Syria, or India, or Pakistan for that matter do. And that is not "being critical of Israel" - that is racism. And we should call it out - even when by "friends." But sometimes the best thing to do is just leave - to exercise boundaries.

Nope. I am Jewish and Israel has a lot to explain and be accountable for. Existing is one term, wholesale killing is another. As Jews, we should be the most horrified. Not in my name.

And now OP is saying she herself is Jewish. Troll alert!

No, that was not OP in the post above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a jewish (American) person who doesn't want to hear people bash Israel, I would appreciate the call from you. Yes, a lot of what Israel is doing is atrocious but this country has been defending themselves from all sides for their entire "life".

I have never heard ANYONE unleash on the IDF without ALSO talking smack about Jewish people. THAT is the real issue for me. Their antisemitism comes roaring out, and they can't/won't see that.

Yep this but I would still leave it alone.

[Anonymous]

Oh now your dh is Jewish, is he? It’s really gross to make up fake posts like these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am friends with a group from my sons school. We get together once a month for lunch or dinner.

So happens we went out for lunch today for our monthly get together. We are a real mix of personalities. Of the 8 of us, 2 are Jewish the rest are mixed religions. We all never bring up politics or religion as an unspoken rule however today the most outspoken of the bunch came out and blasted Israel for what they are doing. She really unloaded, once she got started, she didn't let up (with encouragement from others). We were all kind of surprised and in shock at first. One of the moms (Jewish) is married to a christian husband and is not religious and was one of the first to agree. Then a few others did too. The other Jewish mom however did not take this well. She started to defend whats going on then abruptly got up and said she had to leave early.

Of all the moms, shes the one I am the least close with but I feel badly for how it went. I want to call her just to see how shes doing because I know it was upsetting to her. Not to say I agree with her at all but shes human and no doubt felt really outnumbered as the "ringleader" came on really strong. Should I call or leave it alone?

OMG - leave it alone!! This is not religion; it's politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

+1

People don't hate Jews; they hate genocide! Right now Israel (the government) is causing genocide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a jewish (American) person who doesn't want to hear people bash Israel, I would appreciate the call from you. Yes, a lot of what Israel is doing is atrocious but this country has been defending themselves from all sides for their entire "life".

I have never heard ANYONE unleash on the IDF without ALSO talking smack about Jewish people. THAT is the real issue for me. Their antisemitism comes roaring out, and they can't/won't see that.

I am genuinely not trying to be inflammatory but I do find your last paragraph hard to believe. Have you not spoken with any of the many Jewish voices against instances of IDF brutality?

Of course. I am also against the IDF brutality. However, my jewish friends and I are able to separate what the IDF is doing from hating all jewish people, even hating all Israelis. And that's not something I can say about non-jews. We (my jewish friends/relatives and I) don't unleash to each other about the IDF. We don't need to because we know we all agree. Our talks are more solution-oriented and about the therapy everyone involved will need, and how all the hard work bridging relationships between Israelis and Palestinians over the last few decades has crumbled. Some of us were involved in those programs.

When I said I've never heard anyone unleash on the IDF without also talking smack about jewish people, I meant "anyone" to mean non-jews. Sorry for not being clear the first time.

Non-jews can also separate government policy and IDF actions ordered by a government from "all Israelis" or "all Jews." You just haven't heard enough people.

This is about how the woman who walked out felt - clearly she felt the discussion was antisemitic.

Probably was. My post responded to a quote from someone who wasn't the woman who walked out.

Criticizing Israel is not antisemitic.

To zionists, anything short of applauding genocide is antisemitic.

That’s right, all claims of antisemitism are fake.

Omg this post really summarizes the craziness.

Person A: I don’t support genocide. I think we shouldn’t support Israel.

Person B (who has no actual merit-based response): you are antisemitic and if you deny being antisemitic then you are denying the entire existence of antisemitism. Also if you keep trying to explain yourself you are offensive and should shut up and listen only to the people who are going to invalidate your opinion with accusations of discrimination.

Like do you even hear yourself anymore??

+1
Yep! There is no rational thought in these conversations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for her knowing her boundaries and leaving. The racism and gaslighting in these comments is not surprising, but awful just the same. If you value the friendship, reach out. If not, don’t. She will make whatever judgments are necessary for her safety and well-being.

+1

Gaslighting? Racism? Where and when? The woman left because she didn't like anyone criticizing Israel. That's called boundaries? That's called a poor debater. Maybe she could have added to the conversation.

+1

People don't hate Jews; they hate genocide! Right now Israel (the government) is causing genocide.

People obviously hate Jews enough to come make up fake problematic Jewish mom posts on the religion forum.