Regretting private high school investment because of colleges want more public school graduates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Our private doesn’t offer AP. They offer honors level classes on the same subjects. The focus is on mastering the subjects and not test prep which is consistent with the professor’s view. My child can take the AP tests if she chooses to but the primary focus is not toe get a 5 on the test.

So the rude and angry post is off-mark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs? I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs? I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think.

I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Our private doesn’t offer AP. They offer honors level classes on the same subjects. The focus is on mastering the subjects and not test prep which is consistent with the professor’s view. My child can take the AP tests if she chooses to but the primary focus is not toe get a 5 on the test.

So the rude and angry post is off-mark.

No one is saying there aren’t flaws with the way AP classes are taught. However, if your private no longer offers APs it’s to reduce the pressure on the teacher.

A well-taught advanced class in any AP subject should go beyond what’s on the AP. The students should get 5s without having “toe” focus on it.

So many parents accepting this drivel from their privates because they lack the judgment or knowledge to challenge it.

Of course you would accept the same flawed logic from some anonymous idiot claiming to be a professor who makes the ridiculous claim that kids who take APs can’t think for themselves.

Take a breath and think. Ask whether kids can’t think for themselves because they took APs or because they were offered a poor education overall that did focus on critical thinking? Are APs intrinsically the cause of poor thinking or could there be a broader and more pervasive issue with the quality of education?

The most brilliant kid I know had 12 APs to his credit. He could certainly think circles around most of the people on this thread. Apparently taking so many APs did not diminish his intelligence or creativity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs? I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think.

I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

Or maybe there’s one to cure idiocy? Paid someone disagrees with your flawed and ludicrous logic, they must be angry or trolling?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

I’m guessing this person suffers from a bit of both — with a side of being miserable in life. I agree though not worth giving the troll any air.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs? I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think.

I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

Or maybe there’s one to cure idiocy? Paid someone disagrees with your flawed and ludicrous logic, they must be angry or trolling?

No, but you are clearly angry and trolling. Bye, Felicia!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

I’m guessing this person suffers from a bit of both — with a side of being miserable in life. I agree though not worth giving the troll any air.

As you can only respond to reasoned arguments with ad hominem attacks, you’re just confirming the basic asininity of your assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs? I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think.

I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

Or maybe there’s one to cure idiocy? Paid someone disagrees with your flawed and ludicrous logic, they must be angry or trolling?

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/admissions/traditional-age/2023/04/24/brutal-critique-ap-courses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

Not 30 years old. A professor for 30 years. Not speaking for an entire profession or universities in general. Speaking of my experience and that of my colleagues at one university. Like I said, it obviously suits you to disregard my opinion. No problem. You should move on now.

[Anonymous]

I tend to agree with the rude poster. There was nothing inherently wrong with AP courses when I went to school. The STEM courses were comprehensive and rigorous. For the English and History courses, there is obviously no way to be comprehensive of all US/Euro history or English literature. The way our teachers made it work was to cover their areas of interest in great depth and then take a survey approach to the rest of the topics that would be on the exam. I learned a ton and came to my HYP fully prepared.

If college professors are seeing that students with AP credits lack critical thinking, I would attribute that more to modern teaching methods and screen addiction more than the AP courses themselves.

Question for the experts - what is the difference between AP courses vs. A-levels in UK?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Our private doesn’t offer AP. They offer honors level classes on the same subjects. The focus is on mastering the subjects and not test prep which is consistent with the professor’s view. My child can take the AP tests if she chooses to but the primary focus is not toe get a 5 on the test.

So the rude and angry post is off-mark.

No one is saying there aren’t flaws with the way AP classes are taught. However, if your private no longer offers APs it’s to reduce the pressure on the teacher.

A well-taught advanced class in any AP subject should go beyond what’s on the AP. The students should get 5s without having “toe” focus on it.

So many parents accepting this drivel from their privates because they lack the judgment or knowledge to challenge it.

Of course you would accept the same flawed logic from some anonymous idiot claiming to be a professor who makes the ridiculous claim that kids who take APs can’t think for themselves.

Take a breath and think. Ask whether kids can’t think for themselves because they took APs or because they were offered a poor education overall that did focus on critical thinking? Are APs intrinsically the cause of poor thinking or could there be a broader and more pervasive issue with the quality of education?

The most brilliant kid I know had 12 APs to his credit. He could certainly think circles around most of the people on this thread. Apparently taking so many APs did not diminish his intelligence or creativity.

I suppose you want us to accept your angry and rude opinions unquestionably despite your anonymity. Most of us welcome differing points of views, not suppress them, to make informed decisions.

Our school does a great job placing students into great colleges and ensuring they succeed without having to offer AP courses. If that means they are working smarter and not harder, I’m happy with that.

Imagine how more brilliant that kid who took 12 AP courses could have been had he been unencumbered by the AP process and instructions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs? I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think.

I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling? Move on.

Or maybe there’s one to cure idiocy? Paid someone disagrees with your flawed and ludicrous logic, they must be angry or trolling?

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/admissions/traditional-age/2023/04/24/brutal-critique-ap-courses

Again, you underscore my point. Did you read the article? Did you read the rebuttal from the College Board?

“The great strength of the AP Program is the community of talented, dedicated teachers who care about their students and feel passionate about their subjects. We hear from thousands of those teachers every year, and their insights help make AP more effective and more inspiring for students. Annie Abrams’s Shortchanged offers one, limited view … We find her examination of the AP Program not reflective of the experiences of the broader community of AP teachers and the students they serve. If she had consulted with any of the thousands of AP teachers educating across a variety of subjects, she would have found that students from all backgrounds can excel when they have the right preparation, a welcoming invitation, and a genuine sense of belonging.”

Did you actually read my original objection which was to the sweeping insult to kids who take APs and do well on them by a self-professed, 30-year-old Gen Z with limited teaching experience?

No one disputes that APs have sometimes been taught badly. However, making the assumption that kids who have taken them and done well can’t think is supported by absolutely no data.

The broader debate around APs centers on equity, content matter, and quality of teaching. These are issues that should be discussed and debated.

Insulting and dismissing students who do well on APs reeks of the very lack of critical thinking our hypothetical professor purportedly bemoans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tend to agree with the rude poster. There was nothing inherently wrong with AP courses when I went to school. The STEM courses were comprehensive and rigorous. For the English and History courses, there is obviously no way to be comprehensive of all US/Euro history or English literature. The way our teachers made it work was to cover their areas of interest in great depth and then take a survey approach to the rest of the topics that would be on the exam. I learned a ton and came to my HYP fully prepared.

If college professors are seeing that students with AP credits lack critical thinking, I would attribute that more to modern teaching methods and screen addiction more than the AP courses themselves.

Question for the experts - what is the difference between AP courses vs. A-levels in UK?

ETA There might also be an element of lower barrier to entry. In my day all AP courses except US history were for senior year. STEM AP courses were taken by only 7% of the cohort, about 15% for liberal arts AP courses. I have no idea if it was self-selection or teacher-selection. Nowadays maybe every one is taking APs?