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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses.  Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.  The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach.  Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole.  What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well!  They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive. [/quote]

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took. :roll:

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up. 
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Wow.  I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude.  I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle.  One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it.  They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change.  It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP.  You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth.  Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

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Did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

I’d suggest that the one who is full of hubris and uninformed is you.

You have a questionable level of intelligence if you accept sweeping generalizations so unquestioningly: “Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves.” Really? That’s “VERY thoughtful” and is confirmed by two AOs?  I highly doubt that any AO would speak of students in such terms.

You have limited ability to check logic or facts if you really think a college professor who deals with freshmen ( large classes with hundreds of students with homework and tests graded by teaching assistants ) would know any of them well enough to know their AP credit profile and whether they can think. [/quote]

I wonder if there's an AP course for Anger Management? Or Trolling?  Move on.[/quote]

Or maybe there’s one to cure idiocy?  Paid someone disagrees with your flawed and ludicrous logic, they must be angry or trolling? [/quote]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/admissions/traditional-age/2023/04/24/brutal-critique-ap-courses[/quote]

Again, you underscore my point. Did you read the article? Did you read the rebuttal from the College Board?

“The great strength of the AP Program is the community of talented, dedicated teachers who care about their students and feel passionate about their subjects. We hear from thousands of those teachers every year, and their insights help make AP more effective and more inspiring for students. Annie Abrams’s Shortchanged offers one, limited view … We find her examination of the AP Program not reflective of the experiences of the broader community of AP teachers and the students they serve. If she had consulted with any of the thousands of AP teachers educating across a variety of subjects, she would have found that students from all backgrounds can excel when they have the right preparation, a welcoming invitation, and a genuine sense of belonging.”

Did you actually read my original objection which was to the sweeping insult to kids who take APs and do well on them by a self-professed, 30-year-old Gen Z with limited teaching experience?

No one disputes that APs have sometimes been taught badly. However, making the assumption that kids who have taken them and done well can’t think is supported by absolutely no data.

The broader debate around APs centers on equity, content matter, and quality of teaching. These are issues that should be discussed and debated.

Insulting and dismissing students who do well on APs reeks of the very lack of critical thinking our hypothetical professor purportedly bemoans.
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