Regretting private high school investment because of colleges want more public school graduates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Wow. I’m not the PP, but you are clueless…and very rude. I thought the PP’s response was VERY thoughtful and confirms what we were told by two AO’a at top schools in my area during the admissions cycle. One of the two schools still had AP by the way, but they acknowledged that they were exploring discontinuing it. They also said the publics mostly still use AP, but they too are starting to second guess.

Lastly, they also said that AP is viewed as not being innovative and it forces a specific curriculum that can sometimes be slow to change. It is mostly a money grab by the test board, and schools are figuring out that it doesn’t make you a better student because you took a bunch of AP. You should Google it though rather than making mean-spirited posts that lack substance or truth. Enlighten your self and tone down the uninformed hubris.

Our private doesn’t offer AP. They offer honors level classes on the same subjects. The focus is on mastering the subjects and not test prep which is consistent with the professor’s view. My child can take the AP tests if she chooses to but the primary focus is not toe get a 5 on the test.

So the rude and angry post is off-mark.

No one is saying there aren’t flaws with the way AP classes are taught. However, if your private no longer offers APs it’s to reduce the pressure on the teacher.

A well-taught advanced class in any AP subject should go beyond what’s on the AP. The students should get 5s without having “toe” focus on it.

So many parents accepting this drivel from their privates because they lack the judgment or knowledge to challenge it.

Of course you would accept the same flawed logic from some anonymous idiot claiming to be a professor who makes the ridiculous claim that kids who take APs can’t think for themselves.

Take a breath and think. Ask whether kids can’t think for themselves because they took APs or because they were offered a poor education overall that did focus on critical thinking? Are APs intrinsically the cause of poor thinking or could there be a broader and more pervasive issue with the quality of education?

The most brilliant kid I know had 12 APs to his credit. He could certainly think circles around most of the people on this thread. Apparently taking so many APs did not diminish his intelligence or creativity.

I suppose you want us to accept your angry and rude opinions unquestionably despite your anonymity. Most of us welcome differing points of views, not suppress them, to make informed decisions.

Our school does a great job placing students into great colleges and ensuring they succeed without having to offer AP courses. If that means they are working smarter and not harder, I’m happy with that.

Imagine how more brilliant that kid who took 12 AP courses could have been had he been unencumbered by the AP process and instructions.

Your response is comical. I was disagreeing with your and others’ ill-informed opinions. Your response was to label me angry and a troll.

You have yet to respond to any of my statements with a rational argument.

What does college placement have to do with whether taking APs diminish the ability to think critically?

I’ve been in education longer than Gen Z professor has been alive. Standardized subject tests are one of the few ways teachers can be held accountable across school districts and states with varying educational standards.

The problem is a lack of consensus on what should be taught and how across different disciplines. Another problem is major variability in teacher training and credentialing.

As with the movement away from test optional, elite colleges and universities are unlikely to reject APs permanently. The need for comparators when they are receiving 40 to 60,000 applications a year is too great.

[Anonymous]

It's been the same thing for years, maybe even decades. You sent your kid to private for the wrong reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

Not 30 years old. A professor for 30 years. Not speaking for an entire profession or universities in general. Speaking of my experience and that of my colleagues at one university. Like I said, it obviously suits you to disregard my opinion. No problem. You should move on now.

Perhaps you should have similarly caveated your earlier statements but you instead implied that your statements were indicative of macro trends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are bunch of drama queens on this thread.

Public schools are not unilaterally in shambles people, come on. Ask any parent or kid at a higher achieving school in MCPS or FCPS or at Walls or similar and you will see: high achieving kids anywhere have similar outcomes. Account for wealth and SES, even more so.

The PP touting a 30% ivy admit rate would find that a similar demographic of kids at NCS and Churchill, or Bullis and Whitman, are going to have very similar outcomes.

Public schools are great for some kids, and the more people who send their kids to public school the stronger our schools are for it as a public good. That said, opting out for private schools is better for some kids and I don't wholly begrudge that, but you are being dishonest if you think that private schools aren't part of a larger societal problem, or that school shootings can only happen in public schools.

Do what is best for your family. But you're ignorant and short-sighted if you think private school alone is going to get your kid into Yale, or if you think dumb kids from public school took your kid's spot, or if you think all public schools are bad and all private schools are better. Be a little more honest and rigorous in your analysis.

Genuine question - how are privates a part of a larger societal problem?

Using Fairfax County as example, there are nearly 100 private schools with over 20,000 students enrolled. The average cost to educate a student in FCPS is $19,750. If we got rid of privates, these +20K students would cost FCPS another $400M and that doesn’t include cost of building additional classrooms. These private school families are already paying property and state income taxes that fund the public schools so, you can’t expect them to pay more. If anything, they are freeing up resources for public schools students.

I think you know but if you genuinely don't, I can explain.

The majority of parents who choose private school are weathier, and relatedly, value education. Basically all of the high-risk, low-SES, underperforming kids in the country attend public schools. Opting out of public school makes public schools lose resources, affects the demographics of a school or system, and perpetuates a growing divide. It's a classic example of valuing individuals over communities, which we would probably ALL do, but it's not good for society. To. be fair, moving to a "good school district" which almost always has higher priced housing is the same concept. We made this choice, so I am not attacking anyone. But all of us are smart enough to recognize that these things create problems, specifically for disadvantaged black and brown kids at scale.

Have you listened to Nice White Parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been told by our college counselor that this year colleges are turning away from selecting most private high school kids because of their privileged education. That you now have a better chance coming from a public high school with good grades and top scores and activities. There’s no advantage anymore paying more money for private. None at all.

So for those of you looking to go private, don’t waste your money. Your private school kid, despite top gpa and test scores, will probably will be bumped in favor of someone from a good public school.

Regrets, regrets, regrets…

You sound like an idiot. Private school is not and has never been the path to prestigious college. It's the path to a great, well-rounded, comprehensive education. You got what you paid for. If you wanted colleges, then you send your kid to the most impoverished gang ridden school in the city, but have all the test prep and extras money could buy.

That advice usually comes for $400/hr. You're welcome.

That or a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

Not 30 years old. A professor for 30 years. Not speaking for an entire profession or universities in general. Speaking of my experience and that of my colleagues at one university. Like I said, it obviously suits you to disregard my opinion. No problem. You should move on now.

This is actually comical at this point. The angry, self loathing troll doesn’t even have basic reading comprehension skills. 🤷‍♂️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Been told by our college counselor that this year colleges are turning away from selecting most private high school kids because of their privileged education. That you now have a better chance coming from a public high school with good grades and top scores and activities. There’s no advantage anymore paying more money for private. None at all.

So for those of you looking to go private, don’t waste your money. Your private school kid, despite top gpa and test scores, will probably will be bumped in favor of someone from a good public school.

Regrets, regrets, regrets…

Then what’s Jackson-Reed’s excuse? Only one (1) student has posted that she’s heading to an Ivy so far. ONE student out of a class of 500+ students. And you know J-R isn’t used to big numbers heading to Ivies because when she was posted, they she was there first Ivy this year—yikes!

Your college counselor lied to you. Or you’re lying to us. 🤔

[Anonymous]

Their first Ivy ^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The outcomes at the DC area private schools have been pretty stellar — I don’t think anyone at our school is unhappy with their outcomes.

Same for outside of DC. Its been an insanely amazing year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

Not 30 years old. A professor for 30 years. Not speaking for an entire profession or universities in general. Speaking of my experience and that of my colleagues at one university. Like I said, it obviously suits you to disregard my opinion. No problem. You should move on now.

Perhaps you should have similarly caveated your earlier statements but you instead implied that your statements were indicative of macro trends.

DP. It was pretty obvious that the “we” referred to the professors at that university. And that a “30 year professor” is one that has been doing the job for 30 years, not one that is 30 years old.

I always find it amusing how poor the reading skills are on the education-related forums.

[Anonymous]

Our kids, private school graduates, did superbly. No regrets whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

Not 30 years old. A professor for 30 years. Not speaking for an entire profession or universities in general. Speaking of my experience and that of my colleagues at one university. Like I said, it obviously suits you to disregard my opinion. No problem. You should move on now.

Perhaps you should have similarly caveated your earlier statements but you instead implied that your statements were indicative of macro trends.

DP. It was pretty obvious that the “we” referred to the professors at that university. And that a “30 year professor” is one that has been doing the job for 30 years, not one that is 30 years old.

I always find it amusing how poor the reading skills are on the education-related forums.

I always find it amusing how poorly posters claiming to be educated write. 30 year professor is grotesque syntax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 30 year professor at a major university. I can say two things with confidence:
1) We are not fond of AP courses. Freshman admits coming in with AP courses can't think for themselves. The HS AP courses teach to the test rather than actual teach. Bad news.
2) See no difference or even trending difference between Public School or Private School admits on the whole. What we do see is that students who hold a job during high school (not just summer jobs) do very well! They are self starters, great at managing their time, organized, pro-active, and respectfully assertive.

I call BS. Your over generalizations suggest more than a little mendacity.

Major universities have freshman classes in the thousands. There’s no way you’d know enough of them sufficiently well to conclude that they can’t think for themselves because of the AP courses they took.

Independent thinking does not go downhill because of an AP course or even a slew of AP courses but because of bad teaching overall.

APs are taught differently at different schools. The mindless teach-to-the-test approach is typical of public high schools. From experience, I can tell you that’s not the way it’s taught at the elite privates.

No professor worth the name would make such asinine generalizations with no data to back them up.

Obviously it suits you to disregard my opinion and that of my immediate colleagues and that's more than fine. I know who I am and where I work and how worthy I am to have earned a Ph.D. and the title of Associate Professor. Take Care.

Let’s see. A 30-year old associate professor with extensive teaching experience opining and speaking for multiple disciplines, an entire profession, and universities in general. Yes, you have tons of credibility.

Not 30 years old. A professor for 30 years. Not speaking for an entire profession or universities in general. Speaking of my experience and that of my colleagues at one university. Like I said, it obviously suits you to disregard my opinion. No problem. You should move on now.

Perhaps you should have similarly caveated your earlier statements but you instead implied that your statements were indicative of macro trends.

DP. It was pretty obvious that the “we” referred to the professors at that university. And that a “30 year professor” is one that has been doing the job for 30 years, not one that is 30 years old.

I always find it amusing how poor the reading skills are on the education-related forums.

I always find it amusing how poorly posters claiming to be educated write. 30 year professor is grotesque syntax.

Don’t be mad because you couldn’t figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Been told by our college counselor that this year colleges are turning away from selecting most private high school kids because of their privileged education. That you now have a better chance coming from a public high school with good grades and top scores and activities. There’s no advantage anymore paying more money for private. None at all.

So for those of you looking to go private, don’t waste your money. Your private school kid, despite top gpa and test scores, will probably will be bumped in favor of someone from a good public school.

Regrets, regrets, regrets…

This is a cope OP.

[Anonymous]

Been in privates since before the founding of this country. Public is just not for us.