SFFA doesn't like the Asian American %

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this is what people thought would happen…that it would benefit whites the most…yet how many Asians were on this forum celebrating the end of AA.

The Black folks tried to warn them...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Now Ed Blum's group doesn't like the decrease in admitted Asian American students at Yale, Princeton, and Duke.

This is getting ridiculous.

Excerpt from a New York Times article from today:

"The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules."

It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.

You mean how Red states continue to gerrymander/not draw new maps after SCOTUS decisions? Yeah....

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

Kind of right. You need absolute understanding of your subject, which is very different from the US. So if your high school isn’t good and doesn’t offer that subject, it’s not just that you are a “poor student,” you could be extremely intelligent but get glossed over Oxbridge for your lack of academic offerings in those subjects. Class rules the day in England.

Those 16% Asian Brits aren't part of the ton in the UK, I guarantee it. Look at where most of them live. It's not in the tony parts of England.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The idea that college is equal to your healthcare is absurd. The stakes are not that high. There are plenty of great universities that are not Ivy League. The person that keeps equating Ivy League colleges to a life or death situation like the U.S. healthcare industry is mentally ill or a troll. Like no one is that serious about Ivy admittance. I call fake! I have been around some self-identified tiger moms and even they would not take this extreme of a stance.

So much this. You or your parents may have grown up in a country where only one or two colleges dominate and they largely dictate your life trajectory, but that's nowhere near the case here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

The UK looks at grades and test scores, that's it. Asian Brits do better in the UK academically than any other groups, just like here.

pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (66.1), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (61.3)

people from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate in every year from 2006 to 2022

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

As an example:



https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity

Chinese make up 1% of the UK population but take up 16% of the seats in Oxford.

They don't need to whine about it because the system there is transparent.

My DC got super high stats on their GPA (from a magnet) and SAT scores (1580). My IL is here from the UK and was gobsmacked that a kid with those stats didn't even get an interview or on the waitlist for a T10. In the UK, they said such a student would at least get an interview at the top schools.

DC is a dual citizen and said that they would consider moving to the UK if they have kids because the college admissions process here is crazy.

You are dense and of course missing the point.

Is there a group of American expats/immigrants (not Chinese immigrants) sitting on London Urban Moms or Paris Urban Moms or wherever, complaining about the college system in those countries? Yes or no?

I think the answer is no...but maybe they are. My point is, they adapt to the system. You can do the same.

Even your references make no sense. Oxford has 26,555 students...Cambridge has 21,656. Just those two schools combined are nearly larger than the top 10 US universities combined.

Why are the Chinese even leaving China if they just want to compete in a Chinese system of college admissions?

You're super dense yourself.

People leave their home country for all sorts of reasons. Did your ancestors leave their home country because of college admissions? Hm.. somehow I doubt that.

The PP asked whether immigrants in other countries complain about the college system in the UK and other countries I answered, no, they don't in the UK because the UK doesn't have "holistic" admissions (and neither do most other countries), and their top colleges (like Oxford) admit Asian Brits at a higher rate than the general population because.. get this.. they score higher on exams than other groups, even native white Brits.

They do not believe that the university's demographic should look like the general population. Only simple minded people think that way.

and our top colleges admit Asian Americans at a higher rate than the general population too. Lots of groups are over represented relative to the general population at top US schools including Asian Americans

That's correct, but pro AA people bash Asian Americans for whining even as they are "over represented" at T10s.

Immigrants in other countries don't whine about the college admissions process because the process is fairly transparent. Unis in the UK will admit you if you have x score on your exams and grades. They don't care that much about whether you are a D1 athlete, or your parents are alumni, or you started a charity (with your parents' money).

College admissions process in the US is mind boggling, to the point sometimes it feels like a lottery.

DP. Only the top schools (Ivys etc) feel that way. University of AZ, SUNY Albany, and other schools do not feel this way. The point that everyone misses is Harvard is small even if they went by strict gpa and test scores, there will still be students with great scores that won’t get in.

Certainly, but the US system for top tier colleges is much more opaque and much more like a lottery compared to other countries.

But some of your high scoring kids will still get shut out. There is limited space always.

Certainly. That even happens in the UK. But, the system here is still much more opaque because of athletics, extra curriculars, legacies and donors.. etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This isn’t about acceptance, just enrollment. Maybe fewer Asians want to attend those schools.

Just 3 of the top 15 colleges and 2 Ivies.

Yeah.....right.

Based on all the statistical models and the self confessed amicus briefs by many of these colleges, we expected to see a 50% drop in URM and a significant increase in asian admissions.
Yale specifically signed onto a brief saying that the end of racial preferences would be devastating to their URM population and there was no possible way to maintain their diversity without race conscious admissions.
So were they lying then or are they lying now?

There are enough academically brilliant URMs to get accepted to Yale an other elite colleges.

This. It’s sad how many dcumers don’t seem to understand this.

Anyone who say discovery from the underlying cases knows how much the schools had to overlook test scores and massage personality ratings to get the class they wanted. They wouldn't have had to do that if this enormous pool of qualified applicants existed

Discovery was from a period when everyone had to submit test scores. This year’s class was admitted test optional. In a test optional world it’s entirely possible that they managed this by adjusting for school and neighborhood context. The next class will be test-mandatory at some of these schools, we will see what happens then.

The threat of lawsuit is pretty effective check on racist behavior.

We saw the asian population at places like harvard hover at 18% for decades despite having the highest growth rate of any minority.
Then the lawsuit came along and it inched up every year until it got to where it is now at 37%. Literally every year as a headline touting "record numbers of asians enrolling at harvard for class of xxxx"
Merely the threat of lawsuit tamped down some of the racist behavior.

We will see what next year brings.
Meanwhile the lawsuits should keep rolling in.
Why would you defend racists and give them the benefit of the doubt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The top schools know that they can’t remove diversity aspect from admissions.

I’m as a parent will not send my kid to a predominantly Asian school and the school knows it.

People used to say the same thing about going to restaurants that served blacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

Performance in university is not the measuring stick that a school uses for it's students. These schools exist to create leaders. When yet another Prime Minister comes out of Oxbridge or a President from the ivies, do you think the schools lament that they're a failure because they didn't do better while in school?

And those leaders from Oxbridge are often just wealthy and complete dolts. Admission from Eton is a lot less equitable than anything in America- not even Philips Exeter is as bad.

One needs high test scores to get into Oxbridge. I have a friend whose kid went to Cambridge. They are not the elite. Their families are immigrants, one from India. They are brilliant. They graduated and got a job offer from the likes of FAANG and interesting startups. I'd question whether such a student would've been admitted to HYP given their "holistic" admissions.

Eton is not a university. Those are two separate systems.

[Anonymous]

Why do they think AOs are breaking the law? They're getting education pay and it's not like they get bonuses for hitting certain metrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

Performance in university is not the measuring stick that a school uses for it's students. These schools exist to create leaders. When yet another Prime Minister comes out of Oxbridge or a President from the ivies, do you think the schools lament that they're a failure because they didn't do better while in school?

And those leaders from Oxbridge are often just wealthy and complete dolts. Admission from Eton is a lot less equitable than anything in America- not even Philips Exeter is as bad.

One needs high test scores to get into Oxbridge. I have a friend whose kid went to Cambridge. They are not the elite. Their families are immigrants, one from India. They are brilliant. They graduated and got a job offer from the likes of FAANG and interesting startups. I'd question whether such a student would've been admitted to HYP given their "holistic" admissions.

Eton is not a university. Those are two separate systems.

Oxbridge has 43,000 students combined to 20,000 combined for HYP. England has 56 million people to 350 million people in the US.

Maybe everyone should be advocating that the top schools double their size...because it's not really fair to compare smaller populations and much larger schools to a much larger population and much smaller schools.

University of Toronto which is considered one of the tops in Canada (if not the top) has 78,000 students for a country with 39 million people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

Performance in university is not the measuring stick that a school uses for it's students. These schools exist to create leaders. When yet another Prime Minister comes out of Oxbridge or a President from the ivies, do you think the schools lament that they're a failure because they didn't do better while in school?

And those leaders from Oxbridge are often just wealthy and complete dolts.

Not quite. The Brits have the same problem we have here - too many "leaders" who are "intellectual but idiot" - usually because they are prisoners of the insane ideology that Oxbridge, like the Ivies, selects for.

No one who still has their grey matter locked into their skull casket looks at Boris Johnson and thinks “that’s a public (or private) intellectual.” Going to eton allows you to walk into Oxbridge.

Yet when Oxford lists all of the prime ministers who have attended, he'll be included

And I bet if any of these pro-AA people's kid gets into Oxbridge, they'd be over the moon.

And performance in schools and exams is what UK Unis use to admit students. They don't look at legacies, race, your personality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

Performance in university is not the measuring stick that a school uses for it's students. These schools exist to create leaders. When yet another Prime Minister comes out of Oxbridge or a President from the ivies, do you think the schools lament that they're a failure because they didn't do better while in school?

And those leaders from Oxbridge are often just wealthy and complete dolts. Admission from Eton is a lot less equitable than anything in America- not even Philips Exeter is as bad.

One needs high test scores to get into Oxbridge. I have a friend whose kid went to Cambridge. They are not the elite. Their families are immigrants, one from India. They are brilliant. They graduated and got a job offer from the likes of FAANG and interesting startups. I'd question whether such a student would've been admitted to HYP given their "holistic" admissions.

Eton is not a university. Those are two separate systems.

Oxbridge has 43,000 students combined to 20,000 combined for HYP. England has 56 million people to 350 million people in the US.

Maybe everyone should be advocating that the top schools double their size...because it's not really fair to compare smaller populations and much larger schools to a much larger population and much smaller schools.

University of Toronto which is considered one of the tops in Canada (if not the top) has 78,000 students for a country with 39 million people.

Just to add...Oxbridge are public universities, not private universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are enough academically brilliant URMs to get accepted to Yale an other elite colleges.

But there are not enough academically brilliant URMs to have "enough" of them (whatever that is - 6%? 10%? 13%?) at all the elite schools. In effect all the elite schools are fighting for a very small number of qualified URMs. Thus you see stories about "amazing" URMs who get into every single Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do they think AOs are breaking the law? They're getting education pay and it's not like they get bonuses for hitting certain metrics.

It is purely ideological. You just have to look at the pictures of the people on any admissions committee to know what's happening. They don't have to be ordered to make sure there is "enough" diversity in the incoming class, they will do it automatically, and you know full well that at various stages of the process they are making sure their diversity numbers are "right".

[Anonymous]

Kind of funny how it backfired lolol