Culture essay question. Feels like a trap

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

Yeah, it is. It's a perfectly valid answer. Especially when those non-minority groups are wildly overrepresented and benefit from systemic biases that ensure their continued overrepresentation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

Why are you so black and white (literally)? Of course there are some high stats minorities. And…of course there are lower stats minorities (AND URMs, athletes, first gen, low income, rural, etc. kids) who are admitted over higher stats kids. You lose all credibility when you claim otherwise.

On the one hand you claim there is no alternate and lower standard for URMs and the other you claim the differing standards are necessary to achieve a diverse school population.

You took the most black and white interpretation of my question then grilled me on a point I didn’t raise.

Mkay - myopic

You literally are the one with tunnel vision.

Go back and read the responses to your posts. Do most agree with you?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

Why are you so black and white (literally)? Of course there are some high stats minorities. And…of course there are lower stats minorities (AND URMs, athletes, first gen, low income, rural, etc. kids) who are admitted over higher stats kids. You lose all credibility when you claim otherwise.

On the one hand you claim there is no alternate and lower standard for URMs and the other you claim the differing standards are necessary to achieve a diverse school population.

You took the most black and white interpretation of my question then grilled me on a point I didn’t raise.

Mkay - myopic

You literally are the one with tunnel vision.

Go back and read the responses to your posts. Do most agree with you?

A single response from a sole poster. Also this isn’t the presidential race. I don’t need allies to make a point.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think these schools want to hear about Asian culture, including Indian.

I don’t think they want to hear about middle eastern/North African.

I don’t think they want to hear about any Caribbean culture.

I think they’re only looking for (American) Black, Hispanic, indigenous, and rural, and first gen (but only if no specified ethnicity or one of the above).

The whole thing feels like a trap w college still stuck with their own implicit bias or not so implicit box checking.

Am I wrong? Wouldn’t you advise a kid with strong ties to, say, Egypt or China to pick a “culture” (club, neighborhood etc) that isn’t so impacted in this process?

yes, who you call American blacks, we have a special place in this country. We have been here since 1619, before the revolution, we have never been immigrants. At the same time we were not treated as fully human till the 1960s after war (where yes, white americans sacrificed many lives and that cannot be forgotten) and battle in the courts. if it were noy for this American struggle to recongize the rights of all man you would not be in this country, the flood of immigration after 1968 would not have happen if not for the civil rights movement. so yes, if colleges want to hear about how people have overcome in a society in which their not to distant ancestors, many who are still alive, were literally treated as second class citizens, take time to understand that. This country has a history, the sum of the United States is not equal to being a place people can come to espace where they came from.

So a bunch of white people did horrible shit to a bunch of black people and the answer is to take opportunities earned by a bunch of asians people to give to the black people? We couldn't naturalize and become citizens. We didn't own slaves. But, OK, lets say that this is somehow fair because the asian immigrants are assuming the moral debt of the country when they immigrate here and it is somehow fair that they bear the lion's share of this moral debty. What moral debt does this country have to hispanics that asians must sacrifice so we can provide a preference to them? I mean chinese on the west coast were lynched, and hispanics were among the ones doing the lynching. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Chinese_massacre_of_1871

Why should asian opportunities be given to hispanics? There are at least as many hispanic beneficiaries of affirmative action as there are descendants of american slaves. And why should the african and caribbean immigrants receive this preference? Until very recently asians didn't show up on these shores with much more than any other immigrant, legal or otherwise. Vietnamese refugees came here with nothing. Most asian countries before 1980 had currency controls that restricted your ability to take money out of the country when you went to america.

Racism is a dirty business and the notion that there is such a thing as "good racism" is perverse.

Also, the immigration naturalization act had little to do with civil rights movement and had everything to do with the cold war and america's image on the world stage. In fact if you believe derrick bell, even the civil rights act was also largely the result of the cold war. See, interest convergence. Has it escaped you that noone was concerned about legacy admissions until affirmative action went away? Affirmative action was providing cover for legacy admissions and other white preferences, see, interest convergence.

When you make appeals like this over injustices you yourself never suffered, what you are seeking is justice and what you are getting is pity. A black man under the age of 40 (never mind an 18 year old applying for college) was not born into circumstances any worse than a poor asian immigrant in chinatown.

For someone promoting a culture that claims to value learning, this statement is so appallingly ignorant as to suggest that the person making is not sincere.

But you agree with the rest of it?
Asians shouldn't be bearing the burden of assuaging white guilt.
Hispanic kids shouldn't be bumping more academically accomplished asians kids.
Affirmative action is racial discrimination and racism is always bad.

Your complaint is that cops don't treat blacks and asians equally.
That's a good point if we are talking about police reform.
A much less relevant point when we are talking about college admissions.

The briefest glance at any real research on this subject (such as that done by the US DOJ and very, very many police departments around the country) reveals that PPs statement is, of course, nonsense. Black people are stopped more by police on the street, in cars, on public transport (literally except at night in circumstances where police can’t see their race), they are searched more (despite white people having a slightly higher probability of carrying drugs or weapons), they are charged more than whites displaying identical behavior with offenses ranging from jay walking to resisting arrest, they are given higher sentences for identical crimes, they are paroled less often, and they are violated back to jail more often for identical things.

And why does that mean a black kid should replace a more academically accomplished asian kid?

In school, the story is the same — white and Asian kids are given a pass on behavior that gets Black kids suspended or expelled or results in police being called.

You think asian kids were always given a pass? Pfft. Asians didn't spring from the head of zeus as fully formed model minorities. They earned that reputation.

Of course, PP likely knows all this, they are just hoping some DCUM readers don’t so that they can engage in obvious racist propaganda. I doubt they are even Asian. The Asians that I personally know, having suffered racism, are aware of all forms of it and support the Black community. Just like I wouldn’t go to Bangladesh as an America and attack the law setting aside a percentage of civil service jobs for families of veterans and talking about what I deserve at the expense of other groups, the real Asians that I know in the US don’t try to undermine the Black community but rather seek to work together to fight all racism.

How is anything I say racist? We are well past the point where just tossing around accusations of racism is going to get everyone to agree with you.
My guess is that you are an overly woke white person that doesn't really know any asians. You know asians that don't want you to lecture at them so they pretend agree with your ridiculous ideas.

Here's what asians think about racial preferences in college admission:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/16/americans-and-affirmative-action-how-the-public-sees-the-consideration-of-race-in-college-admissions-hiring/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

Are you saying that asians would love AA if it helped them? I don't think we would, it's a cultural thing, merit matters.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't see evidence that backs up what you're saying when I look at students on college campuses.

This. You go on the campuses of top schools and they feel overwhelmingly Asian and South Asian. Clearly these kids are getting in.

This is as dumb as people who say that cops kill more white men than black men so cops clearly don't have a problem with black men.

Except one ends with death and the other is college admissions.

The comment is still dumb AF and fails basic reasoning.

Sure, just the stakes you proposed are no where near related, and Michelle Guo having to go to Berkeley instead of Princeton is not that detrimental to any of her prospects.

So asians shouldn't complain about racism because they aren't getting shot by police? You're making silly arguments.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

Yeah, it is. It's a perfectly valid answer. Especially when those non-minority groups are wildly overrepresented and benefit from systemic biases that ensure their continued overrepresentation.

We disagree. I don’t want any discrimination against anyone. Systematic biases aren’t accounting for high SAT scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

Let me give my anecdotal story.
A black classmate complained about how everyone at their ivy was treating them like they were there based on affirmative action.
They put on their stuyvesant sweatshirt and suddenly everyone treated them like they belonged there.
She did this to argue that these were racist places. I pointed out that the fact that if people treated her differently, it was because she came from a school that selected its students purely on merit is what gave her legitimacy in an environment where half the black kids were there based on racial preferences.

And it is unlikely that you were a black kid at CalTech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

Let me give my anecdotal story.
A black classmate complained about how everyone at their ivy was treating them like they were there based on affirmative action.
They put on their stuyvesant sweatshirt and suddenly everyone treated them like they belonged there.
She did this to argue that these were racist places. I pointed out that the fact that if people treated her differently, it was because she came from a school that selected its students purely on merit is what gave her legitimacy in an environment where half the black kids were there based on racial preferences.

And it is unlikely that you were a black kid at CalTech.

It’s unlikely…exactly. That’s why people othered me. Merit admissions will make it rarer for black people in higher education and other others. I think your disbelief is a big signal of this and speaks volumes.

It’s cool that she went to Stuyvesant, people have respect for it. But I don’t think high school students know anything about magnet school admissions like you think they do. They would’ve liked her if she put on a choate sweatshirt, and her father was a major donor and she got in without any merit. One of my best friends went to Stuyvesant in college- no one cared lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

Yeah, it is. It's a perfectly valid answer. Especially when those non-minority groups are wildly overrepresented and benefit from systemic biases that ensure their continued overrepresentation.

We disagree. I don’t want any discrimination against anyone. Systematic biases aren’t accounting for high SAT scores.

If you’re fine with gutting athletic departments, fine arts recruitment, geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, legacy, gender minority recruitment in STEM, veterans and community college recruitment-based admissions such as at Princeton for transfer, and probably 10 more other admissions boosts for the application process then I totally agree. Our universities will be blander, but it follows your no discrimination. Also get rid of those extracurriculars- just a vague playground for rich students. Only GPA and SAT and AP coursework. Imagine how good that system would be

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

Yeah, it is. It's a perfectly valid answer. Especially when those non-minority groups are wildly overrepresented and benefit from systemic biases that ensure their continued overrepresentation.

We disagree. I don’t want any discrimination against anyone. Systematic biases aren’t accounting for high SAT scores.

If you’re fine with gutting athletic departments, fine arts recruitment, geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, legacy, gender minority recruitment in STEM, veterans and community college recruitment-based admissions such as at Princeton for transfer, and probably 10 more other admissions boosts for the application process then I totally agree. Our universities will be blander, but it follows your no discrimination. Also get rid of those extracurriculars- just a vague playground for rich students. Only GPA and SAT and AP coursework. Imagine how good that system would be

FYI: I am a minority and I still think minorities should not have a different review standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

No you can't, and yes it's going to happen anyway, but you don't have to make it even worse.

Hmm how do I frame this for you. It still matters that you are in the room. Sure it may suck to know you were pushed by institutional factors to get in (I really don’t think this matters that much, be happy you got into a top college and move on), but representation isn’t a buzzword- it’s confronting really horrid inequality.

It’s usually easier for people to understand if you think more in terms of sex. Women have historical massive disadvantages for getting into science careers- especially physics. We could approach this by saying “only the best women at the same level as the men can get into the Physics program.” But remember that less than a decade or so ago, most stem activities had near zero women, terribly sexist cultures, and there was a dearth of “women in stem” opportunities like today.

So what you’re really doing is saying “Women you have two choices. Deal with really crappy men and experience relentless harassment and lack of representation for your entire career or…do something else.” I wonder why so many women chose option 2 before we gave admissions boost to women.

If you don't belong in the room, noone cares that you are at the table.
If what got you in the room was pity and not ability, you are a token.

Women aren't getting carried over the finish line, they are the majority of law students. They are the majority of medical students. There isn't a large difference in test scores between the women at ivy+ and the men at ivy+. There is a very large difference in test scores between the asians at ivy+ and the blacks at ivy+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

Yeah, it is. It's a perfectly valid answer. Especially when those non-minority groups are wildly overrepresented and benefit from systemic biases that ensure their continued overrepresentation.

We disagree. I don’t want any discrimination against anyone. Systematic biases aren’t accounting for high SAT scores.

If you’re fine with gutting athletic departments, fine arts recruitment, geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, legacy, gender minority recruitment in STEM, veterans and community college recruitment-based admissions such as at Princeton for transfer, and probably 10 more other admissions boosts for the application process then I totally agree. Our universities will be blander, but it follows your no discrimination. Also get rid of those extracurriculars- just a vague playground for rich students. Only GPA and SAT and AP coursework. Imagine how good that system would be

FYI: I am a minority and I still think minorities should not have a different review standard.

No one asked or cares about your racial status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

No you can't, and yes it's going to happen anyway, but you don't have to make it even worse.

Hmm how do I frame this for you. It still matters that you are in the room. Sure it may suck to know you were pushed by institutional factors to get in (I really don’t think this matters that much, be happy you got into a top college and move on), but representation isn’t a buzzword- it’s confronting really horrid inequality.

It’s usually easier for people to understand if you think more in terms of sex. Women have historical massive disadvantages for getting into science careers- especially physics. We could approach this by saying “only the best women at the same level as the men can get into the Physics program.” But remember that less than a decade or so ago, most stem activities had near zero women, terribly sexist cultures, and there was a dearth of “women in stem” opportunities like today.

So what you’re really doing is saying “Women you have two choices. Deal with really crappy men and experience relentless harassment and lack of representation for your entire career or…do something else.” I wonder why so many women chose option 2 before we gave admissions boost to women.

If you don't belong in the room, noone cares that you are at the table.
If what got you in the room was pity and not ability, you are a token.

Women aren't getting carried over the finish line, they are the majority of law students. They are the majority of medical students. There isn't a large difference in test scores between the women at ivy+ and the men at ivy+. There is a very large difference in test scores between the asians at ivy+ and the blacks at ivy+

Go a few decades back and women were definitely carried to the finish line. You actually have to be joking. They still are in tech and some corners of finance.

Do you have any personal experience with elite colleges to come to the conclusion that black people don’t deserve a seat at the Ivy table. Black Ivy alum do very well and excel in the environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

Yeah, it is. It's a perfectly valid answer. Especially when those non-minority groups are wildly overrepresented and benefit from systemic biases that ensure their continued overrepresentation.

We disagree. I don’t want any discrimination against anyone. Systematic biases aren’t accounting for high SAT scores.

If you’re fine with gutting athletic departments, fine arts recruitment, geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, legacy, gender minority recruitment in STEM, veterans and community college recruitment-based admissions such as at Princeton for transfer, and probably 10 more other admissions boosts for the application process then I totally agree. Our universities will be blander, but it follows your no discrimination. Also get rid of those extracurriculars- just a vague playground for rich students. Only GPA and SAT and AP coursework. Imagine how good that system would be

FYI: I am a minority and I still think minorities should not have a different review standard.

Why did you bring this up? Other poster could be a minority. It doesn’t matter. Argue with facts, not your identity.