Culture essay question. Feels like a trap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

If we do not have physicians of color and wait out improving education for k-12 (which would take maybe 5-6 decades minimum to get on equal footing), we will have a health crisis for our communities of color. Not every thing can just be stalled out for the broaches of Meritocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

[Anonymous]

so people are saying if you're in an overly represented minority, they'd be wise to write about that culture.

this is given most kids are in a variety of cultures from home to school to afterschool and can write about anything.

[Anonymous]

Asian students write about their culture all the time in college essays and get in. It’s one of the easiest ways to garner empathy points and relation to anyone in general, so duh it works. Write about what you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is answering an essay question about identity by discussing being raised by a single parent. That's the starting point that the essay is really about grit. I have no idea if that's the right sort of topic....guess we'll find out

I think it's fine and it's finding a way to build some awareness about the limited hands available within the household. Smart

In the same way, I think it's perfectly reasonable to find showcase a demographic that helps you and to pick another topic if your demographic doesnt help you.

Thank you! DC is also of mixed heritage, but that seems very common- not that they can't talk about it, but I think that they would have to bring a fresh perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

Privilege still trumps race. So this essay is the last remaining lever.

And racism is alive and well. I’m a little bitter that asian kids can’t be fully themselves in this process. Racism is shitty

So you're sorry that your racial preferences are at the expense of asians but you support it nonetheless

DP, but why is it wrong for campus’s to not be 50%+ Asian. White students are artificially limited, because we recognize a diverse environment and yeah…it makes college awesome, more interesting, and frankly less echo chamber-y. My first real discussion on Policing happened in a seminar with a black student who was low income advocating for MORE police, while a white liberal student harped on institutional racism, and an Asian American student had ambivalence between no police at all and the effects of crime. Those great discussions can only really spur with diverse living experiences, and if any of us are being honest, top colleges’ Asian populations are 70+% Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.

+1. HBCUs could rival Harvard academically and they would still turn off a large swath of students looking for diversity. The most competitive schools will want to have at least enough of any particular demographic to avoid top diverse candidates choosing other schools for a better sense of community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question was added after John Roberts said specifically this is how race could be brought up in an application.

But yes, colleges still are only looking for URM. Not Asian etc.

So if you’re white or Asian, etc, write about the pool or the gym or the neighborhood skate park.

But if you’re in a racial group they want, this is where you add it

If they don't want white and Asian students why do they accept so many?

They don't want white or Asian students.. because there are already so many of them!
Meaning it is just more competitive amongst your peers if you are white or Asian, and less if you're not. Not that schools don't want white or Asian students at all.

Really unpopular opinion but colleges love Asian students and they’re highly overrepresented and nag as if they’re martyrs because they have to go to ucla or brown instead of Harvard- their parents’ dream

Asians are over-represented and that is the problem. They have too many and need to be more selective with asians in order to avoid almost half the students being asian.

Then ask Asian students if they’d be okay with low performing Asian groups receiving a big boost and see how quickly the tides change on their opinions. Same with including them in AA.

I belong to an underrepresented, disadvantaged Asian subgroup. I still very much disagree with using race or ethnicity in admissions even if it were to boost my kid's chances of admission. The problem is that when a group is favored like this, they get to college and are discriminated against because other people assume they are not smart enough to be there. I do not want this happening to my kid.

They’re going to be discriminated anyway. I went to Caltech as a minority, and it had 0% different effect on how people perceived as dumber and less successful than them. This was when Caltech had one of the most “meritocratic” admissions processes: read useless measures of academic performance which mean nothing on a national scale when we have a district-dependent education system.

People are going to discriminate against the black kids no matter if they got in on merit, got in with AA, or hell if they don’t get in, there’ll still be complaints. You can’t goody tissues yourself out of racism.

If admissions were completely race-blind then any complaints about minorities getting in would have a different basis. It would of course still feel very very ugly, and I would feel justified at being angry at people who are racist. However, I would rather not pile on top of this the belief that all members of my minority group did not have to pass the same intellectual standard to get in. That feels worse to me. I get that you feel differently, but this is my stance.

Do you think there’s a societal impact if we stop admitting diverse classes of people to be in our medical schools, congressional halls, leaders of our non profits, etc.

Yes, diversity is important but achieving it by discriminating against other non minority groups is not the answer.

The only way to get institutional diversity is to select for it. Doesn't matter if it's for income distribution, athletics, the music program, ethnicity, or gender (in some cases). An institution is not going to field their varsity athletic teams if they dont select students that participate in those sports. They may not get a talented oboist to replace the graduating one, if they dont select for it. Nobody cries 'discrimination' for the trumpeter that allegedly lost 'their' spot to the oboist.

IMHO, absolutely nothing wrong with an institution seeking a population that reflects the societal diversity in the US. Also nothing wrong with seeking enough representation of groups such that they can feel included and not the 'only one' on campus. This isn't 'discrimination' of another group if another group is represented and sometimes even over-represented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

Why are you so black and white (literally)? Of course there are some high stats minorities. And…of course there are lower stats minorities (AND URMs, athletes, first gen, low income, rural, etc. kids) who are admitted over higher stats kids. You lose all credibility when you claim otherwise.

On the one hand you claim there is no alternate and lower standard for URMs and the other you claim the differing standards are necessary to achieve a diverse school population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

Why are you so black and white (literally)? Of course there are some high stats minorities. And…of course there are lower stats minorities (AND URMs, athletes, first gen, low income, rural, etc. kids) who are admitted over higher stats kids. You lose all credibility when you claim otherwise.

On the one hand you claim there is no alternate and lower standard for URMs and the other you claim the differing standards are necessary to achieve a diverse school population.

You took the most black and white interpretation of my question then grilled me on a point I didn’t raise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

Why are you so black and white (literally)? Of course there are some high stats minorities. And…of course there are lower stats minorities (AND URMs, athletes, first gen, low income, rural, etc. kids) who are admitted over higher stats kids. You lose all credibility when you claim otherwise.

On the one hand you claim there is no alternate and lower standard for URMs and the other you claim the differing standards are necessary to achieve a diverse school population.

You took the most black and white interpretation of my question then grilled me on a point I didn’t raise.

Mkay - myopic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound paranoid.

My daughter’s common app essay drew heavily from her Asian heritage. It was authentic to her, and she got into 7 of the ten schools she applied to, all with offers of merit aid.

Please don’t pass your thinking onto your child. Let them be who they are. A school who wants someone like them will welcome them with open arms (and you don’t want to send them somewhere where they are not welcome).

There is empirical evidence that selective schools discriminated against asians.
Don't be naive.

I am familiar with those data and interpret them differently than you.

Grades and SAT scores are not the preeminent criteria you perceive them to be, in the eyes of many, so your “data” pool is too narrow.

New poster: it is the criteria that admissions deems them to be…for non-minorities. It is what it is.

Do you think that the minority applicant pool doesn’t have any academic talent or?

Why are you so black and white (literally)? Of course there are some high stats minorities. And…of course there are lower stats minorities (AND URMs, athletes, first gen, low income, rural, etc. kids) who are admitted over higher stats kids. You lose all credibility when you claim otherwise.

On the one hand you claim there is no alternate and lower standard for URMs and the other you claim the differing standards are necessary to achieve a diverse school population.

You took the most black and white interpretation of my question then grilled me on a point I didn’t raise.

Mkay - myopic

You literally are the one with tunnel vision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

Privilege still trumps race. So this essay is the last remaining lever.

And racism is alive and well. I’m a little bitter that asian kids can’t be fully themselves in this process. Racism is shitty

So you're sorry that your racial preferences are at the expense of asians but you support it nonetheless

DP, but why is it wrong for campus’s to not be 50%+ Asian. White students are artificially limited, because we recognize a diverse environment and yeah…it makes college awesome, more interesting, and frankly less echo chamber-y. My first real discussion on Policing happened in a seminar with a black student who was low income advocating for MORE police, while a white liberal student harped on institutional racism, and an Asian American student had ambivalence between no police at all and the effects of crime. Those great discussions can only really spur with diverse living experiences, and if any of us are being honest, top colleges’ Asian populations are 70+% Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.

+1. HBCUs could rival Harvard academically and they would still turn off a large swath of students looking for diversity. The most competitive schools will want to have at least enough of any particular demographic to avoid top diverse candidates choosing other schools for a better sense of community.

That seems to be what the better universities are doing. Asians are overrepresented because they are generally better students. But most schools will make sure that at least 12-13 percent of their students are black - roughly matching US population - so that talented black students always find community. It's 2024. Racially exclusive colleges are weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

Privilege still trumps race. So this essay is the last remaining lever.

And racism is alive and well. I’m a little bitter that asian kids can’t be fully themselves in this process. Racism is shitty

So you're sorry that your racial preferences are at the expense of asians but you support it nonetheless

DP, but why is it wrong for campus’s to not be 50%+ Asian. White students are artificially limited, because we recognize a diverse environment and yeah…it makes college awesome, more interesting, and frankly less echo chamber-y. My first real discussion on Policing happened in a seminar with a black student who was low income advocating for MORE police, while a white liberal student harped on institutional racism, and an Asian American student had ambivalence between no police at all and the effects of crime. Those great discussions can only really spur with diverse living experiences, and if any of us are being honest, top colleges’ Asian populations are 70+% Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.

Discriminating on the basis of race has a long and sordid history in this country.
You seem to be saying that saying that you have identified a benefit to racial discrimination.
You imply that you can sort out the difference between good racial discrimination and bad racial discrimination.
I'm saying that it's all racism and there is no such thing as good racism.

Affirmative action is not responsible for every black student at harvard. URM means UNDER-represented, it does not mean NOT represented.
When Harvard digs deeper to get more black students, they take the students that would have gone to places like Penn and Cornell. This means that places like Cornell must dig even deeper to get their desired diversity. By the time you get to Georgetown, the gap between the URM students and their peer groups gets really big.
Everything you talk about is available in data and studies. Studies already show that black residents would rather have more cops than fewer cops. Do you really need a poor black kid to cosign that study?