Lack of Romamce Among Gen Z teens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the boy moms worried about how scared their kid is of being accused of sexual assault…good! They should all (whatever the relationship) understand consent and that anything other than a clear yes is a no, and everyone should know and be responsible for giving clear yes.

This isn’t something to be afraid of or make excuses to hold back happening.

In the board room, exam room, classroom…society should learn how to give and receive consent. Period.

The fact you refer to all of those posters as “boy moms” negates everything you’ve written.

I’m not a boy mom and I think the fear the boys have is real and justified. What you don’t understand is the end game of what you want: only sexual harassers and assaulters will make any sort of move towards relationships. Your world where boys who are the good ones are terrified of girls and refuse to interact with them is not going to end well. It’s already a mess.

What does this even mean? NP, and it seems you're trying to be clever but failing.

The rest of your post is too absurd to even respond to. Lots of HS kids are dating so your "boys are afraid to date" line is ringing very hollow.

Far fewer are dating. This is well-documented in studies and statistics and has been the subject of medical and sociological research.

Since you don’t understand the basic factual framework, there’s no point in explaining the rest to you. Go do some learning and catch up, then engage.

The data shows that from 1990's to 2016 dating went from seniors saying they dated from 87% to 63%, sex went from 68% to 62%.

This is largely because women (and men) have found out they don't have to get married to become an adult and move out of their parent's house. 20% of women will never marry by choice.

Also, some people are asexual, and that is okay now. Before it was considered abnormal but now we know that some people don't want to have sex and that is fine.

It's not that teens that did date in the 90's are now not dating in 2016, it's that teen that didn't want to date in the 90's but felt pressure to do so, now have enough agency to not date now and that is okay.

And it also means that girls and guys are more empowered to know that they don't have to relationships they may not want, if they want to have sex. Because that stat barely dropped. They sure are smarter than us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the boy moms worried about how scared their kid is of being accused of sexual assault…good! They should all (whatever the relationship) understand consent and that anything other than a clear yes is a no, and everyone should know and be responsible for giving clear yes.

This isn’t something to be afraid of or make excuses to hold back happening.

In the board room, exam room, classroom…society should learn how to give and receive consent. Period.

The fact you refer to all of those posters as “boy moms” negates everything you’ve written.

I’m not a boy mom and I think the fear the boys have is real and justified. What you don’t understand is the end game of what you want: only sexual harassers and assaulters will make any sort of move towards relationships. Your world where boys who are the good ones are terrified of girls and refuse to interact with them is not going to end well. It’s already a mess.

What does this even mean? NP, and it seems you're trying to be clever but failing.

The rest of your post is too absurd to even respond to. Lots of HS kids are dating so your "boys are afraid to date" line is ringing very hollow.

Far fewer are dating. This is well-documented in studies and statistics and has been the subject of medical and sociological research.

Since you don’t understand the basic factual framework, there’s no point in explaining the rest to you. Go do some learning and catch up, then engage.

The data shows that from 1990's to 2016 dating went from seniors saying they dated from 87% to 63%, sex went from 68% to 62%.

This is largely because women (and men) have found out they don't have to get married to become an adult and move out of their parent's house. 20% of women will never marry by choice.

Also, some people are asexual, and that is okay now. Before it was considered abnormal but now we know that some people don't want to have sex and that is fine.

It's not that teens that did date in the 90's are now not dating in 2016, it's that teen that didn't want to date in the 90's but felt pressure to do so, now have enough agency to not date now and that is okay.

Nothing to see here, move along, move along.

Upset the data doesn't match your preconceived notions. ^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the boy moms worried about how scared their kid is of being accused of sexual assault…good! They should all (whatever the relationship) understand consent and that anything other than a clear yes is a no, and everyone should know and be responsible for giving clear yes.

This isn’t something to be afraid of or make excuses to hold back happening.

In the board room, exam room, classroom…society should learn how to give and receive consent. Period.

The fact you refer to all of those posters as “boy moms” negates everything you’ve written.

I’m not a boy mom and I think the fear the boys have is real and justified. What you don’t understand is the end game of what you want: only sexual harassers and assaulters will make any sort of move towards relationships. Your world where boys who are the good ones are terrified of girls and refuse to interact with them is not going to end well. It’s already a mess.

What does this even mean? NP, and it seems you're trying to be clever but failing.

The rest of your post is too absurd to even respond to. Lots of HS kids are dating so your "boys are afraid to date" line is ringing very hollow.

Far fewer are dating. This is well-documented in studies and statistics and has been the subject of medical and sociological research.

Since you don’t understand the basic factual framework, there’s no point in explaining the rest to you. Go do some learning and catch up, then engage.

The data shows that from 1990's to 2016 dating went from seniors saying they dated from 87% to 63%, sex went from 68% to 62%.

This is largely because women (and men) have found out they don't have to get married to become an adult and move out of their parent's house. 20% of women will never marry by choice.

Also, some people are asexual, and that is okay now. Before it was considered abnormal but now we know that some people don't want to have sex and that is fine.

It's not that teens that did date in the 90's are now not dating in 2016, it's that teen that didn't want to date in the 90's but felt pressure to do so, now have enough agency to not date now and that is okay.

And it also means that girls and guys are more empowered to know that they don't have to relationships they may not want, if they want to have sex. Because that stat barely dropped. They sure are smarter than us.

IDK. I kind of thought that vocabulary changed.

87% said they dated but only 63% had sex in the 90"s
63% said they dated and 62% said they had sex in 2016

I feel like the cohort in 2016 would not call it "dating" unless they had sex, they call it seeing each other, or "talking"

[Anonymous]

So all these boys that claim they are afraid to date so they are not accused, how is that going to work out in college where the majority of SA and rapes occur and you aren't around to even observe what type of guy he is being to these girls.

If my son told me this, it would be a huge red flag that he can't control himself, only wants to move fast, is only looking for sex and not love, or doesn't understand how females behave at all. Or maybe not know that only a yes is consent. Even silence is not a consent.

The opposite sex learn a lot about each other in relationships, even short lived ones. Not just romantically but how they think, their self esteem, how they are perceived, how they want to be respected, and more. And the more little relationships, talking stages, situations hips, that they have is a learning process of finding out your values, boundaries, and needs.

My son is not in a relationship yet as a freshman but I will definitely encourage it and welcome anyone he introduces me too and watch from afar and give advice as needed. Why are you all making it so negative when the majority of teen relationships are sweet and yes can end sadly, but they are good life lessons.

Do you all not teach your sons to be gentlemen? I just don't understand this thought because plenty of teens are dating and plenty of teens are hooking up/having sex with random people on weekend nights too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So all these boys that claim they are afraid to date so they are not accused, how is that going to work out in college where the majority of SA and rapes occur and you aren't around to even observe what type of guy he is being to these girls.

If my son told me this, it would be a huge red flag that he can't control himself, only wants to move fast, is only looking for sex and not love, or doesn't understand how females behave at all. Or maybe not know that only a yes is consent. Even silence is not a consent.

The opposite sex learn a lot about each other in relationships, even short lived ones. Not just romantically but how they think, their self esteem, how they are perceived, how they want to be respected, and more. And the more little relationships, talking stages, situations hips, that they have is a learning process of finding out your values, boundaries, and needs.

My son is not in a relationship yet as a freshman but I will definitely encourage it and welcome anyone he introduces me too and watch from afar and give advice as needed. Why are you all making it so negative when the majority of teen relationships are sweet and yes can end sadly, but they are good life lessons.

Do you all not teach your sons to be gentlemen? I just don't understand this thought because plenty of teens are dating and plenty of teens are hooking up/having sex with random people on weekend nights too.

The bolded is extremely obvious from the rest of what you wrote.

Come back in five or six years and then let’s talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The boys are terrified of accusations of sexual assault and that’s frankly realistic.

100%

I have two sons who witnessed a close family friend go through a false SA report. They saw the fallout from it. They saw his life fall apart and still see how hard he's worked to rebuild a tiny semblance of normalcy for himself years later. They saw him have to change his name and move across the country to even be able to live because no matter what, once the accusation is out there, you are forever guilty in the public's eyes.

Both date but only do so in group settings. They make sure to not spend too much alone time with girls without others present. It's sad it has come to this, honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boys are terrified of accusations of sexual assault and that’s frankly realistic.

100%

I have two sons who witnessed a close family friend go through a false SA report. They saw the fallout from it. They saw his life fall apart and still see how hard he's worked to rebuild a tiny semblance of normalcy for himself years later. They saw him have to change his name and move across the country to even be able to live because no matter what, once the accusation is out there, you are forever guilty in the public's eyes.

Both date but only do so in group settings. They make sure to not spend too much alone time with girls without others present. It's sad it has come to this, honestly.

How do you know it was false?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 16 year old DS told me that one thing he is afraid of regarding relationships is that he'll get sent a revealing pic and then be in possession of CP. Also doesn't want to make any first moves to avoid being accused of anything. He said he feels more comfortable about having a relationship after he turns 18.

He can delete an unwanted incoming message.

Rape isn't legal after 18, so he'll need to learn how to make safe moves at some point. Also, "she made the first move" is not a defense against assault. Consent can be implicitly or explicitly withdrawn at any moment.

Do you have children? Daughters? Sons?

Not the poster you're responding to, but I have three sons and I have talked to them a lot about consent. I'm not worried that they are going to be accused of rape.

My priority is to teach them how to be good partners to people who they recognize as their equals. I'm sure that's baffling to the incels on this thread, and to the parents who nurture their sense of grievance.

How old are they?

You sound profoundly naive to me. I probably would have thought (never written, though, I wasn’t that obnoxious) several years ago. Now I laugh hollowly at you.

DP. Which part is naive or funny?

The part where she apparently believes that a lot of overly earnest talks will protect a son from a false accusation of assault and harassment. It’s just naive. I think a lot of the people in this thread who are derisively using the term “boy mom” don’t have kids in college or in their young twenties. The situation is grim.

For those of you who are derisively using the term “boy mom,” answer me this question: Let’s say a boy asks a girl out to the movies. It is clearly a date. In the middle of the movies, he stretches and places his arm around her shoulders — no other physical contact made — but does not, in the middle of the movie, stop and ask clearly and loudly “May I put my arm over your shoulder?” Prior to the movie, he did not ask ahead of time “I might put my arm around your shoulder in the movie. Do I have your permission to do so?” The girl has decided she does not want to date this boy and does not want his arm on his shoulders but makes no effort to shake the arm away.

Is this assault? Harassment? What consequences should the boy face for making unwanted physical contact?

You worry about this stuff? Why?

And I'm the mother who you think is naive and has "overly earnest" conversations with my kids (late teens to mid-20s, and amazingly no accusations of sexual assault even though sometimes they went out with someone a few times and then stopped).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you all are forgetting the very real cost of Covid isolation. Kids in high school now were middle schoolers stuck inside, wearing masks and six feet away from the opposite sex. Middle school is when first crushes usually start to develop. These kids (especially boys who are more immature to begin with) are about two years or more behind in maturity when it comes to dating.

My cute oldest teen boy who lost more than half his middle school experience to virtual learning is having a hard time figuring out how to even ask a girl out. Same with his entire group of about 15 guy friends which consist of a mix of athletes, brainy kids and charismatic boys from public and private schools. They go to parties, have no idea how to get a date. Zero.

OTOH My young teen daughter is totally different, she has an adorable boyfriend who writes her love notes, brings her flowers every week and buys her jewelry on big occasions. She’s at all all girls school (busy, travel athlete) but started dating him (busy, travel athlete) in middle school. She was in elementary when the pandemic hit and her peers have weathered the social aspect of it much much better than my older teen boy.

I’ve even thought about encouraging my son to take a gap year and see the world before going to college to get back some of that stolen time. He isn’t fully ready yet.

These kids need a little empathy. They were isolated during their most key developmental social years.

I agree. Identical to my Senior son and his friends. Mix of public and private school kids.

They are social, play sports, not inside on devices all day…but still…

They seem so innocent still.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about romance, but the teens I know from my kids? They just bang. There's no relationships or dating. They just hook up. They all know how to use condoms and oral sex is like a handshake. FWBs are a thing. They've been conditioned to this by social media and Hollywood -- but mostly by social media. And it's the girls who are usually the aggressors.

But fretting about how they're not slow dancing or whatever in seventh grade is just silly. By high school, many of them are banging different people every weekend -- it's the Twitter effect.

I wish I was trolling. I'm not. Done seen it with mine own eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you all are forgetting the very real cost of Covid isolation. Kids in high school now were middle schoolers stuck inside, wearing masks and six feet away from the opposite sex. Middle school is when first crushes usually start to develop. These kids (especially boys who are more immature to begin with) are about two years or more behind in maturity when it comes to dating.

My cute oldest teen boy who lost more than half his middle school experience to virtual learning is having a hard time figuring out how to even ask a girl out. Same with his entire group of about 15 guy friends which consist of a mix of athletes, brainy kids and charismatic boys from public and private schools. They go to parties, have no idea how to get a date. Zero.

OTOH My young teen daughter is totally different, she has an adorable boyfriend who writes her love notes, brings her flowers every week and buys her jewelry on big occasions. She’s at all all girls school (busy, travel athlete) but started dating him (busy, travel athlete) in middle school. She was in elementary when the pandemic hit and her peers have weathered the social aspect of it much much better than my older teen boy.

I’ve even thought about encouraging my son to take a gap year and see the world before going to college to get back some of that stolen time. He isn’t fully ready yet.

These kids need a little empathy. They were isolated during their most key developmental social years.

I'm not invalidating your experience, but HS boys ask my MS daughter for her number alllll the time. Fortunately, they apologize once they find out that she's too young for them. So there is definitely a significant cohort of boys who don't have any issues going up and talking to girls they don't know.

[Anonymous]

It’s okay. Less competition for the boys who still have the courage to ask girls out in person. The rest can enjoy their bleak existence on their phones and social media.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 16 year old DS told me that one thing he is afraid of regarding relationships is that he'll get sent a revealing pic and then be in possession of CP. Also doesn't want to make any first moves to avoid being accused of anything. He said he feels more comfortable about having a relationship after he turns 18.

He can delete an unwanted incoming message.

Rape isn't legal after 18, so he'll need to learn how to make safe moves at some point. Also, "she made the first move" is not a defense against assault. Consent can be implicitly or explicitly withdrawn at any moment.

Do you have children? Daughters? Sons?

Not the poster you're responding to, but I have three sons and I have talked to them a lot about consent. I'm not worried that they are going to be accused of rape.

My priority is to teach them how to be good partners to people who they recognize as their equals. I'm sure that's baffling to the incels on this thread, and to the parents who nurture their sense of grievance.

How old are they?

You sound profoundly naive to me. I probably would have thought (never written, though, I wasn’t that obnoxious) several years ago. Now I laugh hollowly at you.

DP. Which part is naive or funny?

The part where she apparently believes that a lot of overly earnest talks will protect a son from a false accusation of assault and harassment. It’s just naive. I think a lot of the people in this thread who are derisively using the term “boy mom” don’t have kids in college or in their young twenties. The situation is grim.

For those of you who are derisively using the term “boy mom,” answer me this question: Let’s say a boy asks a girl out to the movies. It is clearly a date. In the middle of the movies, he stretches and places his arm around her shoulders — no other physical contact made — but does not, in the middle of the movie, stop and ask clearly and loudly “May I put my arm over your shoulder?” Prior to the movie, he did not ask ahead of time “I might put my arm around your shoulder in the movie. Do I have your permission to do so?” The girl has decided she does not want to date this boy and does not want his arm on his shoulders but makes no effort to shake the arm away.

Is this assault? Harassment? What consequences should the boy face for making unwanted physical contact?

You worry about this stuff? Why?

And I'm the mother who you think is naive and has "overly earnest" conversations with my kids (late teens to mid-20s, and amazingly no accusations of sexual assault even though sometimes they went out with someone a few times and then stopped).

You are avoiding the questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boys are terrified of accusations of sexual assault and that’s frankly realistic.

100%

I have two sons who witnessed a close family friend go through a false SA report. They saw the fallout from it. They saw his life fall apart and still see how hard he's worked to rebuild a tiny semblance of normalcy for himself years later. They saw him have to change his name and move across the country to even be able to live because no matter what, once the accusation is out there, you are forever guilty in the public's eyes.

Both date but only do so in group settings. They make sure to not spend too much alone time with girls without others present. It's sad it has come to this, honestly.

How do you know it was false?

Not the PP but in the case that I know about the accuser sent a text message to someone else saying she made it all up because she was mad at the boy. The person receiving the text message screenshotted it and saved it. That didn’t stop the boy’s life from being entirely derailed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boys are terrified of accusations of sexual assault and that’s frankly realistic.

100%

I have two sons who witnessed a close family friend go through a false SA report. They saw the fallout from it. They saw his life fall apart and still see how hard he's worked to rebuild a tiny semblance of normalcy for himself years later. They saw him have to change his name and move across the country to even be able to live because no matter what, once the accusation is out there, you are forever guilty in the public's eyes.

Both date but only do so in group settings. They make sure to not spend too much alone time with girls without others present. It's sad it has come to this, honestly.

How do you know it was false?

Boymom