Lack of Romamce Among Gen Z teens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t even read the responses but I can guarantee most are not just justifying forcible rape like you’re acting like.

Just casually shifting the blame where it really belongs— these irresponsible girls and their irresponsible moms not teaching them right, getting these good boys in trouble by being drugged and raped.

It’s not about shifting blame, it’s about being proactive rather than reactive. I would rather my daughter NOT be victimized in the first place than worry about reassuring her that it’s not her fault and that she didn’t deserve it after the fact.

I also taught my kids to make sure all cars are stopped before they cross the street, even if they’re in a crosswalk or have the walk signal. Cars are supposed to stop, but in the real world some of them don’t. Hoping that other parents teach their kids not to mow down pedestrians isn’t doing anything for my kids’ safety.

You can’t possibly be this dense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have sons, so I can’t really teach my sons not to be rapists, since I don’t have any. I don’t really trust other parents to do that - and frankly some people are just born rotten anyway.

Teaching your daughter how to protect herself is just like defensive driving.

And when there’s a car accident because
another driver commits a crime, does anyone ask at the scene whether she’s taken defensive driving?

You are projecting. I mentioned nothing about blame. But if defensive driving skills allow you to swerve in time and not die in a fatal accident - yeah i think not dying is a good thing. Just like not experiencing the trauma of rape is kind of the goal here. You won’t ever prevent these things, but you can reduce your chances a little without living in fear. Still go out to that bar, just keep your hand on your drink. Why are you arguing small things like this? Do you just like arguing for fun?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t even read the responses but I can guarantee most are not just justifying forcible rape like you’re acting like.

Just casually shifting the blame where it really belongs— these irresponsible girls and their irresponsible moms not teaching them right, getting these good boys in trouble by being drugged and raped.

It’s not about shifting blame, it’s about being proactive rather than reactive. I would rather my daughter NOT be victimized in the first place than worry about reassuring her that it’s not her fault and that she didn’t deserve it after the fact.

I also taught my kids to make sure all cars are stopped before they cross the street, even if they’re in a crosswalk or have the walk signal. Cars are supposed to stop, but in the real world some of them don’t. Hoping that other parents teach their kids not to mow down pedestrians isn’t doing anything for my kids’ safety.

You can’t possibly be this dense?

My jaw is hitting the floor

#boymom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have sons, so I can’t really teach my sons not to be rapists, since I don’t have any. I don’t really trust other parents to do that - and frankly some people are just born rotten anyway.

Teaching your daughter how to protect herself is just like defensive driving.

And when there’s a car accident because
another driver commits a crime, does anyone ask at the scene whether she’s taken defensive driving?

Of course not, but if she is thrown from the vehicle and dies at the scene, I do think it’s worth asking why she chose not to wear her seatbelt.

Neat way to change the narrative— wearing a seatbelt is the law. Defensive driving isn’t. Interesting you think precautions that only apply to women should be seen as the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boys are terrified of accusations of sexual assault and that’s frankly realistic.

100%

I have two sons who witnessed a close family friend go through a false SA report. They saw the fallout from it. They saw his life fall apart and still see how hard he's worked to rebuild a tiny semblance of normalcy for himself years later. They saw him have to change his name and move across the country to even be able to live because no matter what, once the accusation is out there, you are forever guilty in the public's eyes.

Both date but only do so in group settings. They make sure to not spend too much alone time with girls without others present. It's sad it has come to this, honestly.

How do you know it was false?

Not the PP but in the case that I know about the accuser sent a text message to someone else saying she made it all up because she was mad at the boy. The person receiving the text message screenshotted it and saved it. That didn’t stop the boy’s life from being entirely derailed.

Same at our HS, 3 girls lied about a football player. One girl cracked and confessed. Texts proved it.

Overwhelmingly girls don't lie. They very often walk back accusations out of fear and social pressure.

Exactly. These boy moms are crazy. Like they somehow think the ratio of made-up accusations are anywhere near reported actual SA - let alone all SA (reported and unreported.)

I was SA’d and never reported it out of embarrassment because I was drunk and shouldn’t have been. Looking back I am 99% sure I was drugged because it didn’t make sense. But I didn’t want to go thru it all. And that was without social media.

DP, (and this is something your post made me think of, I am not questioning whether or not you were assaulted) but honestly I think it’s a huge problem that we are basically teaching girls that they have no responsibility over their own safety/sexual decision making when they are drunk. If a man and a woman are BOTH drunk, and they have drunken sex that one or both later regrets, WHY is it that the woman is assumed to be a victim and the man is assumed to be a criminal? (And obviously if someone is drugged this is a different story.).

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that men in their right mind don’t also sometimes take advantage of drunk women; I am merely saying that in a typical situation it’s more nuanced than man = bad, woman = good.

My daughter went to a nerdy small engineering college and even at that school the amount of roofies and reported drugged SA’s was very high.

I am not PP but drugging females is a very popular thing in college. The girls have 1-2 drinks and get blacked out. That is not normal. Not at all. Two fraternities were shut down after a ton of roofies were confiscated. After multiple reports.

But when you wake up middle of the night or next day, and you feel groggy you either have to go get tested and take kit. Or you think I drank too much and made a mistake.

Do moms no longer teach their daughters to watch their drinks being poured and keep them with you and covered with your hand at all times? Do we no longer teacher our daughters to look out for their girlfriends (eg if you go to the party together you leave together)?

I understand roofies are a thing, believe me, but I was taught the above common sense precautions almost 30 years ago…

Moms? Yeah, this is definitely something only women should teach their daughters. Gosh.

A more valid question would be do parents no longer teach their sons not to engage in criminal behavior.

You’re like the police chief in Australia who suggested a curfew for women when a rapist was at large— newsflash everyone, the rapist wasn’t a woman. Start putting these men in prison and stop blaming their victims for…not having a hand over their drink at all times…?

I really hope that you’re being deliberately provocative with this response. There are so many things wrong with this worldview.

I prefer my daughter know simple steps she can take to keep herself safe (as much as she can control, obviously) rather than just sending her out into the world completely blind to reality and hoping that no one will ever want to harm her.

Teaching your daughter that she is the first and most important line of defense in her own safety is not victim blaming. I actually think it’s empowering.

Teaching your daughter to take precautions is wise. But all the precautions in the world cannot necessarily keep your daughter safe from a committed attacker.

You know what will? That attacker having been raised by parents who told him from the same age that drugging people was unacceptable.

The #boymoms (but really, parents) have a lot to answer for.

Haha, you’re too much! I’m picturing George Costanza right now. “Was that wrong? If only someone had TOLD ME that sort of thing was frowned upon!”

Where do you think this kind of college student comes from? Do you think he’s raised in a household of accountability and respect?

Look at the parents of Adam Lanza, Brian Laundrie and Ethan Crumbley and tell me boys are being raised in this country to be accountable. Laundrie is an especially dispicable case because his parents covered for him even when another set of parents didn’t know if their daughter was dead or alive.

Again, that’s the ultimate outcome of this kind of #boymom parenting.

You are ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. I don’t even know where to start with this drivel but I’ll take the easy mess: conflating the parents of three men with the experience of all men being raised in this country is demonstrative an utter lack of education. Did you learn nothing of math in school? Did you ever learn about statistics? Do you know what the word “statistics” even means?

I hope you aren’t teaching your daughter mathematics. 😬

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

The example I know of where a boy was falsely accused (proven by text later) did not involve pressure or alcohol. The girl said as much in the exculpatory text. They’d known each other for a long time.

I’m sure you think it’s still the boy’s fault somehow and that he deserved to have his life derailed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boys are terrified of accusations of sexual assault and that’s frankly realistic.

100%

I have two sons who witnessed a close family friend go through a false SA report. They saw the fallout from it. They saw his life fall apart and still see how hard he's worked to rebuild a tiny semblance of normalcy for himself years later. They saw him have to change his name and move across the country to even be able to live because no matter what, once the accusation is out there, you are forever guilty in the public's eyes.

Both date but only do so in group settings. They make sure to not spend too much alone time with girls without others present. It's sad it has come to this, honestly.

How do you know it was false?

Not the PP but in the case that I know about the accuser sent a text message to someone else saying she made it all up because she was mad at the boy. The person receiving the text message screenshotted it and saved it. That didn’t stop the boy’s life from being entirely derailed.

Same at our HS, 3 girls lied about a football player. One girl cracked and confessed. Texts proved it.

Overwhelmingly girls don't lie. They very often walk back accusations out of fear and social pressure.

Exactly. These boy moms are crazy. Like they somehow think the ratio of made-up accusations are anywhere near reported actual SA - let alone all SA (reported and unreported.)

I was SA’d and never reported it out of embarrassment because I was drunk and shouldn’t have been. Looking back I am 99% sure I was drugged because it didn’t make sense. But I didn’t want to go thru it all. And that was without social media.

DP, (and this is something your post made me think of, I am not questioning whether or not you were assaulted) but honestly I think it’s a huge problem that we are basically teaching girls that they have no responsibility over their own safety/sexual decision making when they are drunk. If a man and a woman are BOTH drunk, and they have drunken sex that one or both later regrets, WHY is it that the woman is assumed to be a victim and the man is assumed to be a criminal? (And obviously if someone is drugged this is a different story.).

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that men in their right mind don’t also sometimes take advantage of drunk women; I am merely saying that in a typical situation it’s more nuanced than man = bad, woman = good.

My daughter went to a nerdy small engineering college and even at that school the amount of roofies and reported drugged SA’s was very high.

I am not PP but drugging females is a very popular thing in college. The girls have 1-2 drinks and get blacked out. That is not normal. Not at all. Two fraternities were shut down after a ton of roofies were confiscated. After multiple reports.

But when you wake up middle of the night or next day, and you feel groggy you either have to go get tested and take kit. Or you think I drank too much and made a mistake.

Do moms no longer teach their daughters to watch their drinks being poured and keep them with you and covered with your hand at all times? Do we no longer teacher our daughters to look out for their girlfriends (eg if you go to the party together you leave together)?

I understand roofies are a thing, believe me, but I was taught the above common sense precautions almost 30 years ago…

Moms? Yeah, this is definitely something only women should teach their daughters. Gosh.

A more valid question would be do parents no longer teach their sons not to engage in criminal behavior.

You’re like the police chief in Australia who suggested a curfew for women when a rapist was at large— newsflash everyone, the rapist wasn’t a woman. Start putting these men in prison and stop blaming their victims for…not having a hand over their drink at all times…?

I really hope that you’re being deliberately provocative with this response. There are so many things wrong with this worldview.

I prefer my daughter know simple steps she can take to keep herself safe (as much as she can control, obviously) rather than just sending her out into the world completely blind to reality and hoping that no one will ever want to harm her.

Teaching your daughter that she is the first and most important line of defense in her own safety is not victim blaming. I actually think it’s empowering.

Teaching your daughter to take precautions is wise. But all the precautions in the world cannot necessarily keep your daughter safe from a committed attacker.

You know what will? That attacker having been raised by parents who told him from the same age that drugging people was unacceptable.

The #boymoms (but really, parents) have a lot to answer for.

Haha, you’re too much! I’m picturing George Costanza right now. “Was that wrong? If only someone had TOLD ME that sort of thing was frowned upon!”

Where do you think this kind of college student comes from? Do you think he’s raised in a household of accountability and respect?

Look at the parents of Adam Lanza, Brian Laundrie and Ethan Crumbley and tell me boys are being raised in this country to be accountable. Laundrie is an especially dispicable case because his parents covered for him even when another set of parents didn’t know if their daughter was dead or alive.

Again, that’s the ultimate outcome of this kind of #boymom parenting.

You are ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. I don’t even know where to start with this drivel but I’ll take the easy mess: conflating the parents of three men with the experience of all men being raised in this country is demonstrative an utter lack of education. Did you learn nothing of math in school? Did you ever learn about statistics? Do you know what the word “statistics” even means?

I hope you aren’t teaching your daughter mathematics. 😬

I sure am. The mathematics is that 1 in 4 college women experience sexual assault or misconduct at University.

Who do you think carries out these assaults? One extremely busy predator the police are just ignoring? Or just boys who have been raised to think rules don’t apply to them and they will never experience consequences because “boys will be boys”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

The example I know of where a boy was falsely accused (proven by text later) did not involve pressure or alcohol. The girl said as much in the exculpatory text. They’d known each other for a long time.

I’m sure you think it’s still the boy’s fault somehow and that he deserved to have his life derailed.

Deserved? No I don’t think an innocent party deserves to have their life derailed. But as people are saying about women— all the precautions in the world can’t always save you from a bad actor. statistically this boy’s situation, if it is as reported, is very rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

The example I know of where a boy was falsely accused (proven by text later) did not involve pressure or alcohol. The girl said as much in the exculpatory text. They’d known each other for a long time.

I’m sure you think it’s still the boy’s fault somehow and that he deserved to have his life derailed.

1. Some girls will text this when they get scared.
2. Even if she did make it up and it’s a terrible situation for the boy doesn’t negate that 1 in 4 girls are assaulted or raped between ages 18-22. And that is just reported. Do you think 1 in 4 boys are wrongly accused and have their lives “derailed”
3. Many girls are too ashamed/ embarrassed to report because of parents like the ones in this thread that victim blame for not being defensive enough. So instead their lives get derailed as they start to think wrong of themselves, cut themselves, have immense PTSD, depression, anxiety and even suicidal thoughts.

But yes, let’s keep talking about the rare story of a boy being falsely accused. Just another reason a girl wouldn’t come forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

The example I know of where a boy was falsely accused (proven by text later) did not involve pressure or alcohol. The girl said as much in the exculpatory text. They’d known each other for a long time.

I’m sure you think it’s still the boy’s fault somehow and that he deserved to have his life derailed.

1. Some girls will text this when they get scared.
2. Even if she did make it up and it’s a terrible situation for the boy doesn’t negate that 1 in 4 girls are assaulted or raped between ages 18-22. And that is just reported. Do you think 1 in 4 boys are wrongly accused and have their lives “derailed”
3. Many girls are too ashamed/ embarrassed to report because of parents like the ones in this thread that victim blame for not being defensive enough. So instead their lives get derailed as they start to think wrong of themselves, cut themselves, have immense PTSD, depression, anxiety and even suicidal thoughts.

But yes, let’s keep talking about the rare story of a boy being falsely accused. Just another reason a girl wouldn’t come forward.

THIS!!!

No one is saying there aren’t random false accusations or that they aren’t a big deal, but the reason it is so crazy to hear when they come out is because of how rare that situation is compared to like 30% of woman getting SA’d before age 21. Which I guess is so common that it is just glossed over as “don’t girls know how to cover their drinks, geez!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

Ding ding ding! The thread has come full circle with this post! This is exactly what the boys are doing (some taking it further to don’t date or even compliment girls at all) - they are taking precautions to protect themselves. Hence the “lack of romance”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

So teach your boys to take precautions so they won’t be victimized. Start with “don’t have sex with someone while you are they are drunk” and move on to “don’t pressure anyone into having sex” and then “don’t have sex with anyone who you haven’t known for long”.

I think a poster elsewhere called it “defensive driving”

The example I know of where a boy was falsely accused (proven by text later) did not involve pressure or alcohol. The girl said as much in the exculpatory text. They’d known each other for a long time.

I’m sure you think it’s still the boy’s fault somehow and that he deserved to have his life derailed.

1. Some girls will text this when they get scared.
2. Even if she did make it up and it’s a terrible situation for the boy doesn’t negate that 1 in 4 girls are assaulted or raped between ages 18-22. And that is just reported. Do you think 1 in 4 boys are wrongly accused and have their lives “derailed”
3. Many girls are too ashamed/ embarrassed to report because of parents like the ones in this thread that victim blame for not being defensive enough. So instead their lives get derailed as they start to think wrong of themselves, cut themselves, have immense PTSD, depression, anxiety and even suicidal thoughts.

But yes, let’s keep talking about the rare story of a boy being falsely accused. Just another reason a girl wouldn’t come forward.

THIS!!!

No one is saying there aren’t random false accusations or that they aren’t a big deal, but the reason it is so crazy to hear when they come out is because of how rare that situation is compared to like 30% of woman getting SA’d before age 21. Which I guess is so common that it is just glossed over as “don’t girls know how to cover their drinks, geez!”

I mean… if over 25% of the female population is actually being sexually assaulted during the brief age range (NB I do not believe this statistic for a second) then YES cover your drinks, dummies!! It’s not safe out there!

I suspect the main disconnect here is the changing definition of sexual assault. Nowadays “assault” covers anything from forcible rape to drunken hook-ups the girl regrets the next day. Or simply this nebulous concept of “pressure”, not of the physical or livelihood variety, but of the girl not wanting to he seen as difficult or a prude and sadly her mother (or father) never taught her to take some GD agency in her life and actually SAY no when she means no, and then maybe leave if the boy keeps trying to “pressure” her after she says no.

So I think that there are probably MANY “false” allegations (from the boy’s perspective) but which the girl fervently believes because this is what girls are being taught these days. They’re always victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a not a “me too going too far” — I guarantee you there is still more unpunished sexual assault in HS than false accusations.

It’s not a balancing test. And a criminal going unpunished is far less of a concern than an innocent person being imprisoned. That’s pretty much the driving theory behind our criminal justice system.

Wut?

You're right it's not a balancing test since false accusations are so incredibly rare and it's extraordinarily rare for an innocent person to be imprisoned. In contrast, people get away with crimes all the time. So for you to suggest the exception is a bigger concern than the norm? Wild.