PG County: Two Children Killed While Walking to Riverdale Elementary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

But they don’t have the right to step into the street any time they want.

Drivers can’t read your mind.

Yes, pedestrian do have a right to step into a crosswalk at any time they want.

That's why drivers are supposed to obey the law, and stop at the crosswalk.

You are wrong on this. Drivers don’t have to anticipate negligence of pedestrians. And cars, trucks and buses can’t stop on a dime. Pedestrians do not have an unfettered right to step off a curb.

Just stop. This is not the place. As a PP pointed out, you are arguing about pedestrian negligence when two children walking WITH AN ADULT in a crosswalk at a 4-way intersection with a flashing light stop sign next to an elementary school during drop off were killed by someone turning left. Start a new thread for your pedestrian complaints.

This entire thread is nothing but baseless speculation and gossip. No one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault.

This thread is about a ten-year-old and a five-year-old who were killed next to their elementary school, during school arrival time, in a painted crosswalk, at an intersection with a four-way stop, by a driver who was turning left. Get out of here with your "no one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault" trash.

If it's as clear cut as you say, that begs the question why the police aren't willing to say that.

No it doesn't. Those are the facts, stated by police. A ten-year-old and a five-year-old, killed at an intersection with a four-way stop, with painted crosswalks, next to an elementary school, around 8 am on a school day, and a driver turning left. And here's you, saying "Well we don't know it wasn't the children's own fault they were run over and killed." You should be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

But they don’t have the right to step into the street any time they want.

Drivers can’t read your mind.

Yes, pedestrian do have a right to step into a crosswalk at any time they want.

That's why drivers are supposed to obey the law, and stop at the crosswalk.

You are wrong on this. Drivers don’t have to anticipate negligence of pedestrians. And cars, trucks and buses can’t stop on a dime. Pedestrians do not have an unfettered right to step off a curb.

Just stop. This is not the place. As a PP pointed out, you are arguing about pedestrian negligence when two children walking WITH AN ADULT in a crosswalk at a 4-way intersection with a flashing light stop sign next to an elementary school during drop off were killed by someone turning left. Start a new thread for your pedestrian complaints.

This entire thread is nothing but baseless speculation and gossip. No one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault.

This thread is about a ten-year-old and a five-year-old who were killed next to their elementary school, during school arrival time, in a painted crosswalk, at an intersection with a four-way stop, by a driver who was turning left. Get out of here with your "no one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault" trash.

The PG police chief told the Washington Post that:

1. They have video of the accident
2. The driver stayed on the scene, but the police did not take the driver into custody
3. The presence of a crossing guard would *not* have prevented the accident

Weird, right? Maybe we don't know all the answers yet.

No, that's not weird at all, actually. It's quite typical.

[Anonymous]

They were with an adult. That adult could have been a crossing guard. It wouldn’t have made a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

But they don’t have the right to step into the street any time they want.

Drivers can’t read your mind.

Yes, pedestrian do have a right to step into a crosswalk at any time they want.

That's why drivers are supposed to obey the law, and stop at the crosswalk.

You are wrong on this. Drivers don’t have to anticipate negligence of pedestrians. And cars, trucks and buses can’t stop on a dime. Pedestrians do not have an unfettered right to step off a curb.

Just stop. This is not the place. As a PP pointed out, you are arguing about pedestrian negligence when two children walking WITH AN ADULT in a crosswalk at a 4-way intersection with a flashing light stop sign next to an elementary school during drop off were killed by someone turning left. Start a new thread for your pedestrian complaints.

This entire thread is nothing but baseless speculation and gossip. No one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault.

This thread is about a ten-year-old and a five-year-old who were killed next to their elementary school, during school arrival time, in a painted crosswalk, at an intersection with a four-way stop, by a driver who was turning left. Get out of here with your "no one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault" trash.

If it's as clear cut as you say, that begs the question why the police aren't willing to say that.

No it doesn't. Those are the facts, stated by police. A ten-year-old and a five-year-old, killed at an intersection with a four-way stop, with painted crosswalks, next to an elementary school, around 8 am on a school day, and a driver turning left. And here's you, saying "Well we don't know it wasn't the children's own fault they were run over and killed." You should be ashamed.

And you should stop being such judgmental idiot? I'm sorry, bored mommy in Kalorama, but you weren't there and you don't know what happened. Just wait for the police figure shit out. Jeebus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why the kids would have been killed and the adult not.

America needs to regulate the size of cars. Hoods are unnecessarily large because of the American obsession of "bigger is better". Military grade tanks actually have better visibility of a child than US SUVs.



https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visibility-than-a-ford-super-duty

Related:

My two children and I were very nearly hit in just this scenario and yes, a primary contributor was that the driver had a stupid, massively oversized pick up truck. That and rampant imcompetent/reckless driving is not a good combo.

We were in DC, in a residential neighborhood that has a small commercial strip. It was broad daylight. A four way stop. We were crossing in a well marked cross walk, northbound, and had waited until no cars were in motion before we started off the curb. I either had my 4 year old on my hip or by the hand, I don't remember exactly. My 8 y/o was immediately in front of me, and we were as close together as was possible without me stepping on the back of his shoes.

When we were about half away across, I realized the vehicle that had been stopped at the southbound lane stop sign, was now inching out into the intersection. It ultimately doesn't matter, but I don't think he had his blinker on. I assumed he was probably just being impatient and getting a start on turning left as soon as he could squeeze behind us but I tried to make eye contact just in case. Then, all of the sudden he accelerated into the turn, right at my 8 y/o. Instinctively, I stepped up to get between the truck and where my son was, while waving my free hand and SCREAMING stop at him before thank god he hit the brakes at the last second. Luckily it was nice weather so his window was down, otherwise who knows if he would have noticed.

He looked in shock and said "Oh god, I didn't see him!" Yeah, no $h!t. Maybe don't drive a monster truck for no reason other than vanity, especially through dense residential neighborhoods, dummy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

But they don’t have the right to step into the street any time they want.

Drivers can’t read your mind.

Yes, pedestrian do have a right to step into a crosswalk at any time they want.

That's why drivers are supposed to obey the law, and stop at the crosswalk.

You are wrong on this. Drivers don’t have to anticipate negligence of pedestrians. And cars, trucks and buses can’t stop on a dime. Pedestrians do not have an unfettered right to step off a curb.

Just stop. This is not the place. As a PP pointed out, you are arguing about pedestrian negligence when two children walking WITH AN ADULT in a crosswalk at a 4-way intersection with a flashing light stop sign next to an elementary school during drop off were killed by someone turning left. Start a new thread for your pedestrian complaints.

This entire thread is nothing but baseless speculation and gossip. No one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault.

This thread is about a ten-year-old and a five-year-old who were killed next to their elementary school, during school arrival time, in a painted crosswalk, at an intersection with a four-way stop, by a driver who was turning left. Get out of here with your "no one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault" trash.

If it's as clear cut as you say, that begs the question why the police aren't willing to say that.

No it doesn't. Those are the facts, stated by police. A ten-year-old and a five-year-old, killed at an intersection with a four-way stop, with painted crosswalks, next to an elementary school, around 8 am on a school day, and a driver turning left. And here's you, saying "Well we don't know it wasn't the children's own fault they were run over and killed." You should be ashamed.

And you should stop being such judgmental idiot? I'm sorry, bored mommy in Kalorama, but you weren't there and you don't know what happened. Just wait for the police figure shit out. Jeebus.

Are you related to the driver, or something? Is there a reason you keep trying to take the focus away from the children who were killed by a driver next to their school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why the kids would have been killed and the adult not.

America needs to regulate the size of cars. Hoods are unnecessarily large because of the American obsession of "bigger is better". Military grade tanks actually have better visibility of a child than US SUVs.



https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visibility-than-a-ford-super-duty

Related:

My two children and I were very nearly hit in just this scenario and yes, a primary contributor was that the driver had a stupid, massively oversized pick up truck. That and rampant imcompetent/reckless driving is not a good combo.

We were in DC, in a residential neighborhood that has a small commercial strip. It was broad daylight. A four way stop. We were crossing in a well marked cross walk, northbound, and had waited until no cars were in motion before we started off the curb. I either had my 4 year old on my hip or by the hand, I don't remember exactly. My 8 y/o was immediately in front of me, and we were as close together as was possible without me stepping on the back of his shoes.

When we were about half away across, I realized the vehicle that had been stopped at the southbound lane stop sign, was now inching out into the intersection. It ultimately doesn't matter, but I don't think he had his blinker on. I assumed he was probably just being impatient and getting a start on turning left as soon as he could squeeze behind us but I tried to make eye contact just in case. Then, all of the sudden he accelerated into the turn, right at my 8 y/o. Instinctively, I stepped up to get between the truck and where my son was, while waving my free hand and SCREAMING stop at him before thank god he hit the brakes at the last second. Luckily it was nice weather so his window was down, otherwise who knows if he would have noticed.

He looked in shock and said "Oh god, I didn't see him!" Yeah, no $h!t. Maybe don't drive a monster truck for no reason other than vanity, especially through dense residential neighborhoods, dummy.

I honestly don’t understand why these behemoth vehicles are legal. It’s like all the regulations are made with cars in mind and we keep allowing trucks to become unnecessarily large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only is there a stop sign there, the stop signs in that area have lit borders that flash. I don’t think some of you understand that this is a small intersection in a residential area right in front of the school. I cannot fathom how someone would be going fast enough and not see three people in the crosswalk.

Sounds like the driver was making a left hand turn, and didn't look. Looking at oncoming traffic, but not at the crosswalk to the left.

What makes sense to me is this scenario:

Van driver started to make a left turn (from a stopped position at the start sign) and saw the kids and adult crossing, so attempt to brake. But experienced pedal reversal and accelerated instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of way at intersections without a light?

Yes, they do. Also, there are crosswalks at every intersection, even where there isn't any paint. The law treats crosswalks with paint and crosswalks without paint exactly the same, in terms of right of way.

But they don’t have the right to step into the street any time they want.

Drivers can’t read your mind.

Yes, pedestrian do have a right to step into a crosswalk at any time they want.

That's why drivers are supposed to obey the law, and stop at the crosswalk.

You are wrong on this. Drivers don’t have to anticipate negligence of pedestrians. And cars, trucks and buses can’t stop on a dime. Pedestrians do not have an unfettered right to step off a curb.

Just stop. This is not the place. As a PP pointed out, you are arguing about pedestrian negligence when two children walking WITH AN ADULT in a crosswalk at a 4-way intersection with a flashing light stop sign next to an elementary school during drop off were killed by someone turning left. Start a new thread for your pedestrian complaints.

This entire thread is nothing but baseless speculation and gossip. No one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault.

This thread is about a ten-year-old and a five-year-old who were killed next to their elementary school, during school arrival time, in a painted crosswalk, at an intersection with a four-way stop, by a driver who was turning left. Get out of here with your "no one knows if the pedestrians or the driver was at fault" trash.

The PG police chief told the Washington Post that:

1. They have video of the accident
2. The driver stayed on the scene, but the police did not take the driver into custody
3. The presence of a crossing guard would *not* have prevented the accident

Weird, right? Maybe we don't know all the answers yet.

No, that's not weird at all, actually. It's quite typical.

If the driver accidentally accellerated instead of braking, it makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anything larger than a car shouldn't be allowed on the roads during the day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anything larger than a car shouldn't be allowed on the roads during the day

You mean like tractor trailers that deliver the food you eat to the grocery stores?
Or gas tankers?
Or trash trucks?
Or school buses.
Or Metro buses?
Or Fedex, Amazon, UPS trucks?
Etc., etc.
Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is why the kids would have been killed and the adult not.

America needs to regulate the size of cars. Hoods are unnecessarily large because of the American obsession of "bigger is better". Military grade tanks actually have better visibility of a child than US SUVs.



https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visibility-than-a-ford-super-duty

We need to ban military grade urban assault vehicles. Think of the children!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything larger than a car shouldn't be allowed on the roads during the day

You mean like tractor trailers that deliver the food you eat to the grocery stores?
Or gas tankers?
Or trash trucks?
Or school buses.
Or Metro buses?
Or Fedex, Amazon, UPS trucks?
Etc., etc.
Ridiculous.

Can you please not post The War On The War On Cars content on a thread about elementary school students killed by a driver next to their elementary school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything larger than a car shouldn't be allowed on the roads during the day

You mean like tractor trailers that deliver the food you eat to the grocery stores?
Or gas tankers?
Or trash trucks?
Or school buses.
Or Metro buses?
Or Fedex, Amazon, UPS trucks?
Etc., etc.
Ridiculous.

It is possible to design all of these to allow better view of pedestrians, and in fact, some countries regulate the size of the front, but the US does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything larger than a car shouldn't be allowed on the roads during the day

You mean like tractor trailers that deliver the food you eat to the grocery stores?
Or gas tankers?
Or trash trucks?
Or school buses.
Or Metro buses?
Or Fedex, Amazon, UPS trucks?
Etc., etc.
Ridiculous.

Most of the those vehicles require a special license or training to drive. Which might be a decent solution to the large commuting vehicle problem.