Georgetown or ND?

[Anonymous]

BC went for trump is more numbers than ND did.

[Anonymous]

ND is more of a community. GU is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

You’re just plain wrong. ND is about as national a school as any out there and the constant refrain that it’s “midwestern” is total bullshit. It has more students from the coasts than the Midwest because the coasts are where the majority of Catholics in this country live. It’s very obvious that you have no first hand connection to the university.

I am a Notre Dame graduate. It IS more conservative than Georgetown or Boston College. This isn’t because it’s “midwestern” - it’s because it attracts more practicing Catholics and has more students from Catholic high schools. There are plenty of liberals on campus though. It’s not BYU or Baylor.

It attracts more practicing Catholics specifically because it's in a more conservative, Midwestern enclave though.

Arguing that ND's location has no impact on its conservatism, especially compared to Catholic colleges located in coastal cities, is absurd.

Loyola University of Chicago is Catholic and no more conservative than Boston College. In fact, it’s probably more liberal.

Grinnell College is in the middle of the cornfields in Iowa and is super liberal.

UW-Madison and Michigan are two of the most liberal public flagships in the country.

I notice you’re not denying that you have no personal connection to Notre Dame. You just have a midwestern mother-in-law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

Jesuits are more liberal. Period. BC and GU are Jesuit. The Big East Jesuit schools are much more liberal than ND which is not Jesuit. Our church is Jesuit. The one near us our house is not and much more conservative, traditional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

Jesuits are more liberal. Period. BC and GU are Jesuit. The Big East Jesuit schools are much more liberal than ND which is not Jesuit. Our church is Jesuit. The one near us our house is not and much more conservative, traditional.

Right. And to me, the Jesuit tradition of Georgetown alone makes it better than ND. And to the strange who poster who said ND has a community and GU does not, I would have to ask, did you attend both, or know people who did? I have had family at both. Georgetown is just a more intellectual place, with the Jesuit tradition underpinning almost everything. It turns the snottiest students who wind up there into real thinkers who want to do good. ND only exacerbates the snottiness.

[Anonymous]

Seeing ESPN's College Gameday on the Notre Dame campus was awesome today. I bet the Ohio State game tonight would be great to attend. I think of ND and GU as peers and maybe Georgetown as slightly better but I'd probably rather go to ND for the next few years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

Jesuits are more liberal. Period. BC and GU are Jesuit. The Big East Jesuit schools are much more liberal than ND which is not Jesuit. Our church is Jesuit. The one near us our house is not and much more conservative, traditional.

Right. And to me, the Jesuit tradition of Georgetown alone makes it better than ND. And to the strange who poster who said ND has a community and GU does not, I would have to ask, did you attend both, or know people who did? I have had family at both. Georgetown is just a more intellectual place, with the Jesuit tradition underpinning almost everything. It turns the snottiest students who wind up there into real thinkers who want to do good. ND only exacerbates the snottiness.

What are your precise connections to both?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seeing ESPN's College Gameday on the Notre Dame campus was awesome today. I bet the Ohio State game tonight would be great to attend. I think of ND and GU as peers and maybe Georgetown as slightly better but I'd probably rather go to ND for the next few years!

Check out Notre Dame campus in January.

[Anonymous]

I agree on Georgetown having a slight advantage as an overall university but I see them as basically the same for undergrad. I also agree about the bigger number of kids who dream of going to ND. Georgetown is also the top choice of a lot of kids but they get more kids who might have preferred other great city schools like Columbia, Harvard, and Brown. It is definitely not a safety school but might be option 1b for some top students.
Georgetown's admissions office has never modernized, which I think has hurt them comparatively, at least from an optics perspective without artificially low acceptance rates and ED, versus other top schools like NW, Vandy, Chicago, and Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seeing ESPN's College Gameday on the Notre Dame campus was awesome today. I bet the Ohio State game tonight would be great to attend. I think of ND and GU as peers and maybe Georgetown as slightly better but I'd probably rather go to ND for the next few years!

Check out Notre Dame campus in January.

Yep. It’s beautiful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree on Georgetown having a slight advantage as an overall university but I see them as basically the same for undergrad. I also agree about the bigger number of kids who dream of going to ND. Georgetown is also the top choice of a lot of kids but they get more kids who might have preferred other great city schools like Columbia, Harvard, and Brown. It is definitely not a safety school but might be option 1b for some top students.
Georgetown's admissions office has never modernized, which I think has hurt them comparatively, at least from an optics perspective without artificially low acceptance rates and ED, versus other top schools like NW, Vandy, Chicago, and Cornell.

According to parchment, applicants accepted to both choose Notre Dame 73% of the time

[Anonymous]

Georgetown could be more exciting socially if the new basketball coach gets things turned around.
I am a big fan of their Jordan stuff versus Notre Dame's bland Under Armour looks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree on Georgetown having a slight advantage as an overall university but I see them as basically the same for undergrad. I also agree about the bigger number of kids who dream of going to ND. Georgetown is also the top choice of a lot of kids but they get more kids who might have preferred other great city schools like Columbia, Harvard, and Brown. It is definitely not a safety school but might be option 1b for some top students.
Georgetown's admissions office has never modernized, which I think has hurt them comparatively, at least from an optics perspective without artificially low acceptance rates and ED, versus other top schools like NW, Vandy, Chicago, and Cornell.

According to parchment, applicants accepted to both choose Notre Dame 73% of the time

I wouldn't doubt that though Parchment is iffy. People interested in Georgetown beyond just the Catholic school connection wouldn't be interested in applying to ND. Pretty much everything other than the religious affiliation are totally different.
The other non-shared "similar schools" listed below the two schools are instructive and include Michigan, Purdue, and Indiana for ND and Penn, Columbia, NYU, and Brown for Georgetown.
https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Georgetown+University&with=University+of+Notre+Dame

[Anonymous]

Which has the better dating scene? My sense is Georgetown has a less healthy dating culture and ND more real relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seeing ESPN's College Gameday on the Notre Dame campus was awesome today. I bet the Ohio State game tonight would be great to attend. I think of ND and GU as peers and maybe Georgetown as slightly better but I'd probably rather go to ND for the next few years!

This was one of my favorite parts of the broadcast. https://x.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1705614738204352920?s=20

Here's what the crowd looked like.