Georgetown or ND?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if other people dislike ND as much as I do. I'm very influenced by my classmates who went there in the last century. Are kids as bro-ish now as in the 90s? Not where I live.

bro-ish would be more like Greek heavy schools such as Dartmouth?

ND doesn't even have Greek, and that was pro for my kid.

I also dislike Dartmouth so same vibe, frat or not

[Anonymous]

in my day, ND wasn't so very far away from their all-male days. I had older cousins who went in the late 70s and early 80s who really disliked their time there. Even the teachers were toxic. So many years of being an all boys club w girlfriends waiting at the gate. Just weird.

But now we're 50 years on and I like to think things have evolved, student body and faculty is more diverse. But ever image that trickles out is still very white.

Also, Catholics have gotten more conservative (I'm a catholic) which doesn't help. Trump really unmasked a lot of racism in the christian world.

[Anonymous]

If you are a guy, Georgetown has a LOT better looking women than ND.

ND is wealthy and there is a link between ses and looks generally but that correlation seems to break down at ND

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The long-running REA debate is fascinating. Almost as riveting as the “Barnard isn’t Part of Columbia!!!” thread. Please keep it going until somebody invents some sort of device an interested party could use to remotely communicate with the ND & GU admissions offices & get the issue clarified in about 30 seconds.

Yes, reading the websites might take all of two minutes. Call instead.

If the answers to the never-ending question about EA/REA were clearly stated on the web sites, we wouldn’t have to endure Beavis & Butthead arguing about it forever. Unlike a web site, a phone call allows for nuanced questions & answers.

The Georgetown website is linked above and painstakingly and clearly explains their version of EA — complete with FQAs. Apparently, you haven’t deigned to read it. It is not Georgetown’s fault if you have basic reading comprehension problems.

[Anonymous]

Once again, the link, Beavis…

https://uadmissions.georgetown.edu/applying/early-action/

Or should there be a music video for you to comment on? Perhaps the GU “chicks” poster above wants to join in on the fun?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

You’re just plain wrong. ND is about as national a school as any out there and the constant refrain that it’s “midwestern” is total bullshit. It has more students from the coasts than the Midwest because the coasts are where the majority of Catholics in this country live. It’s very obvious that you have no first hand connection to the university.

I am a Notre Dame graduate. It IS more conservative than Georgetown or Boston College. This isn’t because it’s “midwestern” - it’s because it attracts more practicing Catholics and has more students from Catholic high schools. There are plenty of liberals on campus though. It’s not BYU or Baylor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

You’re just plain wrong. ND is about as national a school as any out there and the constant refrain that it’s “midwestern” is total bullshit. It has more students from the coasts than the Midwest because the coasts are where the majority of Catholics in this country live. It’s very obvious that you have no first hand connection to the university.

I am a Notre Dame graduate. It IS more conservative than Georgetown or Boston College. This isn’t because it’s “midwestern” - it’s because it attracts more practicing Catholics and has more students from Catholic high schools. There are plenty of liberals on campus though. It’s not BYU or Baylor.

It attracts more practicing Catholics specifically because it's in a more conservative, Midwestern enclave though.

Arguing that ND's location has no impact on its conservatism, especially compared to Catholic colleges located in coastal cities, is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Cultures are different. I would pick Georgetown, but that's me. It's in a cosmopolitan city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

It's not a change. ND is more midwestern, and Midwestern liberals are different from coastal liberals. There is a cultural conservatism to midwesterners that you don't find so much on the coasts or in a city like Chicago, but is more common in midwesterners from smaller cities and rural areas, even if they are liberal or vote Democratic.

You are more likely to find Democratic students at ND who are still conflicted on the issue of abortion rights, for instance. Whereas the Catholic kids who attend Georgetown or BC generally are not conflicted -- they support abortion rights and will, at most, say they personally wouldn't have an abortion. To a lesser extent, you see similar differences in attitudes about gay rights, where a Catholic liberal from Cincinnati might say they support gay marriage but remain somewhat uncomfortable with the idea, whereas a Catholic liberal from the DMV will be vocally in favor of gay rights. And that's just the Catholic liberals. You are much more likely to encounter Catholic conservatives in the midwest who vocally oppose abortion or gay rights, than in a coastal city where it is incredibly hard to hold those views and not become a pariah. I know Catholic conservatives in the DMV who are politically conservative but support abortion rights and gay marriage as political positions, even if they may personally have conflicted views, especially on abortion.

I mean, look, my MIL is a devout Catholic and also a committed Democrat. But she gets very uncomfortable on the issues of abortion and homosexuality. She lives in a small Midwestern town with a huge Catholic population and lots of Democrats (union town) but also lots of Trump voters. It's a really different environment and produces different kinds of people than living anywhere off the I-95 corridor.

The median midwestern gen x, millenial and gen z def is less conservative than in New England when it comes to promiscuity, personal style/hair colors, weight, tattoos, and whole host of other cultural markers.

Not sure what you mean by cultural conservatism besides lgbtq/abortion acceptance.

there are way more boeberts in the Midwest than New England

[Anonymous]

BC is pretty conservative too.

And I think people have posted enough stats now - ND is not “Midwestern”. California, NY, NJ and ILL top 4 states.

[Anonymous]

Nikole Hannah Jones is a ND alum, for example

[Anonymous]

ND is the most geographically diverse campus in America some years. Always top 3.

More Midwesterners at northwestern and u Chicago and wash U. My a lot.

Is this a DMV thing? The weird ignorance (yet confidence!) on other schools vibes? When when presented with numbers earlier in the thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd generally consider Georgetown as the slightly better school (the 75% SAT score is usually higher, the acceptance rate is usually somewhat lower despite not being a Common App school, and DC can attract faculty a little better versus South Bend and than what Georgetown might otherwise get). Notre Dame has a lot more $$ endowment wise though, so if aid is an important factor, ND could very well end up being more affordable as they have generous need based aid and more merit aid than Georgetown.
Rankings wise, they are split. Georgetown is one of the few schools in the top 25 across Forbes, WSJ, and USNWR. Notre Dame is slightly higher than Georgetown in USNWR but is 15+ spots lower in the other two. Georgetown also tends to be ranked higher grad school wise in primary areas like law school and b-school. My guess is if you ask a guidance counselor in North Carolina, they'd probably say Georgetown and if you ask a counselor in Illinois, they'd probably say Notre Dame with the slight regional bias!
The environments at Georgetown and Notre Dame are so different though beyond being Catholic. Some people love a quieter place like South Bend and want to be part of a big football tradition. That definitely isn't available at Georgetown. Others want a more urban school that is a little less isolated socially or are set on some of the DC internship opportunities.
Catholics were excluded from a lot of other schools for so long and their high schools still have strong ties to the universities, so I get the interest in both but the student should be able to get a pick between these two great schools pretty quickly.

I agree. My son is at a Jesuit HS and has zero interest in ND. Big football school and in South Bend does not interest this city kid. He loves Georgetown. They are both great schools- just not interested in ND.

My son is applying to Boston College though, just not ND. Jesuit is a big deal which ND is not and tends to be much more conservative.

I'm wondering why people keep saying ND is more conservative. Is it just because of one famous alum? The professors are split, the student body votes Dem, and while it is likely just the circles I kept, the most rabidly liberal friends I have went to ND. What I like about Catholic schools generally is that all ideas are present and kids learn hoe to discuss differences critically.

Is there some other aspect that has changed that I'm missing?

The most heinous woman I know from this area and her husband are conservatives and send their kid to ND. I know it shouldn't, but this determines my whole view of ND. Well, now that I think of if, a local head of an "elite" school who is one big annoying bro sent his kids there, so I guess that's two for two of people I can't stand who chose ND.