Do you let your children call adults by their first names?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Then you need to be clear what these kids should call you, because as you can see on this thread the default varies a lot. When someone calls me “Ms First Name” or “Ms Last Name” I ask that they call me just by “First name.” If you want to be “Ms Last name” and someone calls you by first name or “Ms First name” then by all means let them know what you want to be called. But many kids won’t by default call you that.

[Anonymous]

My opinion of many people on this thread:

[Anonymous]

Yes. I find the formality absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is cultural. Figure out what the people in your circles do and copy.

Absolutely cultural. I’m from a Spanish-speaking country and the idea of calling a parent (or a teacher) Mr/Ms- last name sounds funny in Spanish. Also, we don’t take our husbands last names so a kid would rarely know a mom’s last name. First name always.

Your kids call their teacher by their first name?

My DD spent two years at a British public primary school…everyone went by first names, even the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Then you need to be clear what these kids should call you, because as you can see on this thread the default varies a lot. When someone calls me “Ms First Name” or “Ms Last Name” I ask that they call me just by “First name.” If you want to be “Ms Last name” and someone calls you by first name or “Ms First name” then by all means let them know what you want to be called. But many kids won’t by default call you that.

Why would you presume this is a communication problem on my part? Every kid calls me Mrs X and I don't think many of them know my first name. This works perfectly well in practice and yes, by default ALL the kids call me Mrs X because it's the norm where I live. The random kid would try to call parents by their first name and would quickly be advised to use Mr/Mrs instead. Just like you say "please use First Name". I'll respect your choices as long as you respect mine regardless of what you think your kid should call me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is cultural. Figure out what the people in your circles do and copy.

Absolutely cultural. I’m from a Spanish-speaking country and the idea of calling a parent (or a teacher) Mr/Ms- last name sounds funny in Spanish. Also, we don’t take our husbands last names so a kid would rarely know a mom’s last name. First name always.

Your kids call their teacher by their first name?

My DD spent two years at a British public primary school…everyone went by first names, even the principal.

Really? In Britain they use "Miss/Mr/Mrs" was your school in Britain or America?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Of course they will call you by whatever arbitrary preferences you have, but it will be pretty meaningless because esteem and respect is conveyed through actions and behaviors. Children don’t have to like you, esteem you, respect you (beyond basic courtesy) or obey you . You can’t force any of that by making them call you Mrs. X.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Of course they will call you by whatever arbitrary preferences you have, but it will be pretty meaningless because esteem and respect is conveyed through actions and behaviors. Children don’t have to like you, esteem you, respect you (beyond basic courtesy) or obey you . You can’t force any of that by making them call you Mrs. X.

I don't care. But they will call me what I like. See how that works?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

This is unequivocally wrong. Familiarity doesn't mean knowing someone's name. My friends can call me not only my name but my nickname because they are my friends, and yes I am more familiar with them. Their kids are known to me, but we don't talk on the phone, we don't go out for drinks together, we don't give each other work advice, we haven't seen each other through ups and downs and marriage/death/divorce. You seem to think "I've met you once, now prove you deserve to be respected" is the universal "American" cultural norm, irrespective of age of the interlocutors, and anyone who deviates from it needs to explain themselves. Not so.

Give me a break. Your given name conveys no sense of familiarity, it’s how most people, known and unknown, are addressing you. You just have a different rule for people below a certain age.

Nicknames or pet names are a completely different thing and kids understand intimacy very well. They don’t even call their own parents by a pet name in public nor do they want peers to use a pet name or nick name that only their parents use. Intimacy has nothing to do with age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Of course they will call you by whatever arbitrary preferences you have, but it will be pretty meaningless because esteem and respect is conveyed through actions and behaviors. Children don’t have to like you, esteem you, respect you (beyond basic courtesy) or obey you . You can’t force any of that by making them call you Mrs. X.

I don't care. But they will call me what I like. See how that works?

Whateeeeever Mrs. X!

See how that works?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Of course they will call you by whatever arbitrary preferences you have, but it will be pretty meaningless because esteem and respect is conveyed through actions and behaviors. Children don’t have to like you, esteem you, respect you (beyond basic courtesy) or obey you . You can’t force any of that by making them call you Mrs. X.

I don't care. But they will call me what I like. See how that works?

Whateeeeever Mrs. X!

See how that works?

That's still not what I prefer. If your kid is going to have an existential crisis about calling someone their preferred name then it just shows that you and your family aren't really for us. No loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

This is unequivocally wrong. Familiarity doesn't mean knowing someone's name. My friends can call me not only my name but my nickname because they are my friends, and yes I am more familiar with them. Their kids are known to me, but we don't talk on the phone, we don't go out for drinks together, we don't give each other work advice, we haven't seen each other through ups and downs and marriage/death/divorce. You seem to think "I've met you once, now prove you deserve to be respected" is the universal "American" cultural norm, irrespective of age of the interlocutors, and anyone who deviates from it needs to explain themselves. Not so.

Give me a break. Your given name conveys no sense of familiarity, it’s how most people, known and unknown, are addressing you. You just have a different rule for people below a certain age.

Nicknames or pet names are a completely different thing and kids understand intimacy very well. They don’t even call their own parents by a pet name in public nor do they want peers to use a pet name or nick name that only their parents use. Intimacy has nothing to do with age.

Again, wrong and wrong, but so very adamant. You've also spent this entire thread defending a kid calling an adult Jenny, which is a nickname, so not just wrong but hypocritical. But you seem very confident that your particular opinion is somehow a fact, and people who have different norms are not just different by secretly sadistic towards children, so carry on with your blinkers on and someone else will have to engage you going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

I think this gets closest to what is making me feel uncomfortable by the vehemence of the "any distinctions between kids and adults is fascism" crowd here. The idea that it's a sign of respect for a kid to call an adult Bobby or Claire instead of their name or title blurs the lines between kids and adults, and the existence of those lines is not just so adults can power trip and ask for curtseys or whatever Hyperbole Hal is on about. If your daughter is giggling on the phone texting and when asked she tells you it's from Jimmy, it's better to be able to know without digging further that Jimmy is not her 32 year old soccer coach testing the waters with the girls on the team. Or maybe this thread has reached the point where dick pics from adults are a sign of respect and that the adult that won't send them is a narcissist who thinks they're "above" teenagers.

This is a weird justification. You can't possibly think honorifics would help with that, do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

Honorifics are all about hierarchy and authority, not familiarity. If you are fine with me calling you Lisa, but not my child, you concern is not familiarity but your hierarchical status. A child does not owe you any level of deference, only the courtesy and respect that they should show to any human being regardless of age.

Out of courtesy and respect I'd ask your kid to call me Mrs X since we call people what they like to be called, when told. I will also call you and your child by the names you prefer. But you don't get to decide what to call me. Pretty simple.

Of course they will call you by whatever arbitrary preferences you have, but it will be pretty meaningless because esteem and respect is conveyed through actions and behaviors. Children don’t have to like you, esteem you, respect you (beyond basic courtesy) or obey you . You can’t force any of that by making them call you Mrs. X.

I don't care. But they will call me what I like. See how that works?

Whateeeeever Mrs. X!

See how that works?

That's still not what I prefer. If your kid is going to have an existential crisis about calling someone their preferred name then it just shows that you and your family aren't really for us. No loss.

Other people, whether 6 or 66, don’t have to like you or respect you, no matter what your preference is.

I just demonstrated that someone can use a honorific and be rude. You are trying to extract a level of deference but have zero authority to enforce it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who want kids to address them Mrs. Mr. etc while allowing adults to address them by their first name, are on a power trip.

Adults pretending to be overly familiar with kids is what puts kids in a weird spot. Kids don’t want to be your peers, and adults are the problem when they remove that boundary.

I think this gets closest to what is making me feel uncomfortable by the vehemence of the "any distinctions between kids and adults is fascism" crowd here. The idea that it's a sign of respect for a kid to call an adult Bobby or Claire instead of their name or title blurs the lines between kids and adults, and the existence of those lines is not just so adults can power trip and ask for curtseys or whatever Hyperbole Hal is on about. If your daughter is giggling on the phone texting and when asked she tells you it's from Jimmy, it's better to be able to know without digging further that Jimmy is not her 32 year old soccer coach testing the waters with the girls on the team. Or maybe this thread has reached the point where dick pics from adults are a sign of respect and that the adult that won't send them is a narcissist who thinks they're "above" teenagers.

This is a weird justification. You can't possibly think honorifics would help with that, do you?

Maintaining bright lines between adults and kids doesn't help with establishing boundaries? Yes, I do believe that. If your kid said "Mr. Harrison" you'd ask to see the texts and intervene. If your kid is in a high school with 1800 kids you won't think "Jimmy the soccer coach" you'll think "there must be a Jimmy in one of her classes" and take a mental note. The idea that kids and adults are the same, should be treated as equals, should be friends, and shouldn't have boundaries between them absolutely benefits bad actors. The person arguing "you're only saying that because there's a 20 year age difference!!!" is right, even though they think it's some kind of gotcha. A 20 year age difference matters, especially when the younger person is 11-18, and furiously insisting it doesn't or shouldn't or it's wrong to point out makes my Spidey Senses tingle.