How often do you think applicants lie about their race?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

No, it's not "funny", and in fact it is explained in most of the demographic analyses you reference. High income students are better able to be good candidates.

What you have no evidence for is your claim that this is by the design if the system rather than despite it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

Everyone thinks that checking the box gives one an advantage, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. Of course, it's not going to open doors for a dunce. But out of 20 equally qualified students, if only one had that box checked, I'm sure it gives them an edge. colleges will have to 'activate' that edge without referencing that checkbox, because doing so would be illegal. If the find out that the checkbox was false information later on, they have no recourse because on paper the student did not get any tangible benefit by checking that box. See the game people can play?

[Anonymous]

Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

Everyone thinks that checking the box gives one an advantage, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. Of course, it's not going to open doors for a dunce. But out of 20 equally qualified students, if only one had that box checked, I'm sure it gives them an edge. colleges will have to 'activate' that edge without referencing that checkbox, because doing so would be illegal. If the find out that the checkbox was false information later on, they have no recourse because on paper the student did not get any tangible benefit by checking that box. See the game people can play?

Yes, and this is why programs like questbridge are key. They do the AOs heavy lifting for them. A checkbox is near worthless. Similar principle gives private school kids an advantage, may as well take from the higher class vetted pool, rather than the random public school kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This forum is way too consumed about race.

lol everything in America now (not just education but politics economics culture etc) is 100% all about race now. It’s exhausting!

[Anonymous]

What are thoughts about only checking white box for kid who's half Asian/half white, but who has an obviously Asian last name? By appearance, kids looks somehow ethnic but not easily identifiable has half Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

The only demographic identity box I see on the Common App is gender identity. Furthermore, the colleges are making financial impacting decisions based on information in the Common App and the applicant is affirming that the information is provided is true. If the information is false and found out it could result in the student being dismissed from the school and/or paying back funds possibly received as a result of the false information provided. Of course, if not caught it is like anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

It's not a crime, but it doesn't have to be for your admission to be rescinded or for you to be kicked out once you're there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect frequently. Is it illegal? No.

If they lie about their race to get a benefit, such as a scholarship or special program, it's called fraud. Yes, it's illegal.

Is “admission to college” a benefit?

According to the prosecutors in the Varsity Blues scandal it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect frequently. Is it illegal? No.

If they lie about their race to get a benefit, such as a scholarship or special program, it's called fraud. Yes, it's illegal.

Is “admission to college” a benefit?

Yes. It's fraud. Don't do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

The only demographic identity box I see on the Common App is gender identity. Furthermore, the colleges are making financial impacting decisions based on information in the Common App and the applicant is affirming that the information is provided is true. If the information is false and found out it could result in the student being dismissed from the school and/or paying back funds possibly received as a result of the false information provided. Of course, if not caught it is like anything else.

Find a definition of African American that excludes anyone. The government defines it as having origins in Africa, but doesn't place a time frame on it. That's literally every human being on the planet. If they want a tighter definition, they can come up with one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

The only demographic identity box I see on the Common App is gender identity. Furthermore, the colleges are making financial impacting decisions based on information in the Common App and the applicant is affirming that the information is provided is true. If the information is false and found out it could result in the student being dismissed from the school and/or paying back funds possibly received as a result of the false information provided. Of course, if not caught it is like anything else.

Find a definition of African American that excludes anyone. The government defines it as having origins in Africa, but doesn't place a time frame on it. That's literally every human being on the planet. If they want a tighter definition, they can come up with one

Not that hard.

Black or African American means a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American".

[Anonymous]

I think it's extremely rare that people outright lie. It's also fraud and unethical. Who are you people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

The only demographic identity box I see on the Common App is gender identity. Furthermore, the colleges are making financial impacting decisions based on information in the Common App and the applicant is affirming that the information is provided is true. If the information is false and found out it could result in the student being dismissed from the school and/or paying back funds possibly received as a result of the false information provided. Of course, if not caught it is like anything else.

Find a definition of African American that excludes anyone. The government defines it as having origins in Africa, but doesn't place a time frame on it. That's literally every human being on the planet. If they want a tighter definition, they can come up with one

Not that hard.

Black or African American means a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American".

Without a timeframe, that is every human being who ever lived.