How often do you think applicants lie about their race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

It's not a crime, but it doesn't have to be for your admission to be rescinded or for you to be kicked out once you're there.

Which students will they kick out?

75% black?
50% black?
25% black?
15% black?
5% black?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's extremely rare that people outright lie. It's also fraud and unethical. Who are you people?

They are people who are fighting against a racist system. Not fighting racism makes you part of the problem. Supporting a racist system makes you a racist.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

Have an acquaintance who was recently admitted to 5 fully funded STEM PhD programs - well known national programs. Didn’t have to submit GREs, “test optional”. Went to a non-flagship state university. Has no publications to her name.

She’s a black woman. Now, to be fair, I don’t know her GPA and maybe she had some amazing letters of rec. But having gone thru the PhD process myself and having lots of friends who have done it, I know what the hurdles are to even get ONE fully funded offer. We all had authorships under our belt, had to have near perfect grades, and took multiple GRE subject tests.

Is race/ethnicity an advantage in elite academia and the corporate world these days? Absolutely. I also know that it’s not an advantage when dealing with cops, public schools, and racist power structures that your average brown person will encounter. But both can be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

The only demographic identity box I see on the Common App is gender identity. Furthermore, the colleges are making financial impacting decisions based on information in the Common App and the applicant is affirming that the information is provided is true. If the information is false and found out it could result in the student being dismissed from the school and/or paying back funds possibly received as a result of the false information provided. Of course, if not caught it is like anything else.

Find a definition of African American that excludes anyone. The government defines it as having origins in Africa, but doesn't place a time frame on it. That's literally every human being on the planet. If they want a tighter definition, they can come up with one

Not that hard.

Black or African American means a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American".

Without a timeframe, that is every human being who ever lived.

To be clear, you are saying all of humanity originate from black racial groups of Africa?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP from above.

Also I have a friend who is planning to have her sons' claim to be Hispanic. Her husband was born in the U.S. of parents born in Portugal. I told her that Hispanic was only a label that was supposed to apply to those with Latin American heritage, not Spanish or Portuguese, but she didn't seem to be particularly deterred.

My good friend is a lily white guy from the Midwest. His wife is upper middle class Argentinian, though her mother’s side of the family is indigenous. His kids will be putting both “Hispanic/Latino” and “Native American” on applications. He’s already done it with his kids’ preschool enrollment so the record is set.

His kids look white as hell, though their mother does speak only Spanish in the home so the kids will be fully bilingual. My friend is also retired at age 38 after making millions at a hedge fund.

He’s already laughing about how they will be unreasonably advantaged in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

Have an acquaintance who was recently admitted to 5 fully funded STEM PhD programs - well known national programs. Didn’t have to submit GREs, “test optional”. Went to a non-flagship state university. Has no publications to her name.

She’s a black woman. Now, to be fair, I don’t know her GPA and maybe she had some amazing letters of rec. But having gone thru the PhD process myself and having lots of friends who have done it, I know what the hurdles are to even get ONE fully funded offer. We all had authorships under our belt, had to have near perfect grades, and took multiple GRE subject tests.

Is race/ethnicity an advantage in elite academia and the corporate world these days? Absolutely. I also know that it’s not an advantage when dealing with cops, public schools, and racist power structures that your average brown person will encounter. But both can be true.

Meh, I was admitted to my phd program without submitting an application. I opened an application, requested one letter of rec from current faculty member, but still have it in a sealed envelope. I took a couple grad courses non-degree seeking, a professor called me while grading the final and asked why I didn't have funding. I said I hadn't finished the application. I received a letter of admission. I am white.

[Anonymous]

I believe this was covered in the movie Soul Man. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091991/

and executed in reality by Mindy Kaling's brother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

The only demographic identity box I see on the Common App is gender identity. Furthermore, the colleges are making financial impacting decisions based on information in the Common App and the applicant is affirming that the information is provided is true. If the information is false and found out it could result in the student being dismissed from the school and/or paying back funds possibly received as a result of the false information provided. Of course, if not caught it is like anything else.

Find a definition of African American that excludes anyone. The government defines it as having origins in Africa, but doesn't place a time frame on it. That's literally every human being on the planet. If they want a tighter definition, they can come up with one

Not that hard.

Black or African American means a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American".

Without a timeframe, that is every human being who ever lived.

To be clear, you are saying all of humanity originate from black racial groups of Africa?

It's pretty well established https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1070/early-human-migration/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

It's not a crime, but it doesn't have to be for your admission to be rescinded or for you to be kicked out once you're there.

It IS a crime. We saw parents charged with honest services fraud in the Varsity Blues Scandal. No, they didn't lie about race. They lied about their kids' academic and athletic records. A lie is a lie.

The kids also can be kicked out or have their admission rescinded. What do you think the chances are of getting admitted elsewhere if that happens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew a lot of people personally who did. One kid of white South Africans said AA. One half Moroccan kid said AA. Lots of kids who had something like 1/8 heritage in Spain or Portugal said Hispanic.

The Moroccan kid and South African kid ARE African-American. They are not, however, black. If the school wanted to know if they were black, they should have asked that. And the 1/8 heritage kid from Spain IS Hispanic. If the school wanted to know if their ancestry is from Latin America, they should ask that. The person with Portuguese heritage should not be checking off Hispanic as people from Portugal speak Portuguese not Spanish, and are, therefore, not Hispanic.

1/8 Spanish ancestry does not make one Hispanic if they and their parents are a mix of many other non Hispanic ethnic groups and have been living in the US for the past 100 years. No. Do they have a Spanish speaking household? Then no.

According to who???

According to College Board, one must be 1/4 (one hispanic grandparent will accomplish this).

My niece/nephew will probably do that. It's funny because their one grandparent was born in South America -- but his parents immigrated there from Europe the year before he was born, and he left as a teenager. Ethnically, they are identical to my kids. Their parents are really rich, and the Latino grandfather was a PhD educated at American Ivies, and the mom grew up in the whitest suburb imaginable. They did hire a Spanish-speaking nanny and sent the kids to an immersion preschool, so the kids are fully bilingual.

Schools are looking for wealthy Hispanics, this is perfect. Checking Hispanic without obvious means to pay for school is a dime a dozen.

They are? I thought they were looking for “first generation” (poor) Hispanics not the privileged kind. I suspect AOs can detect the “faking it” kind.

Don’t be naive. There will be some first-gen low-income taken from development programs. The rest are wealthy.

And your evidence of this is?

hint: you have none.

And the ten pages of people saying a single check box boosts chances, they have no evidence. Look at the demographics of people actually enrolled, they are wealthy, funny how that happens.

Have an acquaintance who was recently admitted to 5 fully funded STEM PhD programs - well known national programs. Didn’t have to submit GREs, “test optional”. Went to a non-flagship state university. Has no publications to her name.

She’s a black woman. Now, to be fair, I don’t know her GPA and maybe she had some amazing letters of rec. But having gone thru the PhD process myself and having lots of friends who have done it, I know what the hurdles are to even get ONE fully funded offer. We all had authorships under our belt, had to have near perfect grades, and took multiple GRE subject tests.

Is race/ethnicity an advantage in elite academia and the corporate world these days? Absolutely. I also know that it’s not an advantage when dealing with cops, public schools, and racist power structures that your average brown person will encounter. But both can be true.

Meh, I was admitted to my phd program without submitting an application. I opened an application, requested one letter of rec from current faculty member, but still have it in a sealed envelope. I took a couple grad courses non-degree seeking, a professor called me while grading the final and asked why I didn't have funding. I said I hadn't finished the application. I received a letter of admission. I am white.

Oh I believe you that there are weird random opportunities that can arise due to being in the right place at the right time. But did you get 5 fully funded offers like that? No. Your situation is not remotely comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

It's not a crime, but it doesn't have to be for your admission to be rescinded or for you to be kicked out once you're there.

It IS a crime. We saw parents charged with honest services fraud in the Varsity Blues Scandal. No, they didn't lie about race. They lied about their kids' academic and athletic records. A lie is a lie.

The kids also can be kicked out or have their admission rescinded. What do you think the chances are of getting admitted elsewhere if that happens?

There was bribery involved in Varsity Blues. IIRC, they got busted for interstate wire fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

It's not a crime, but it doesn't have to be for your admission to be rescinded or for you to be kicked out once you're there.

It IS a crime. We saw parents charged with honest services fraud in the Varsity Blues Scandal. No, they didn't lie about race. They lied about their kids' academic and athletic records. A lie is a lie.

The kids also can be kicked out or have their admission rescinded. What do you think the chances are of getting admitted elsewhere if that happens?

Their mistake was not being rich enough to be an actual development admit.

[Anonymous]

What’s interesting about Varsity Blues is that falsifying race was NOT part of it. Apparently it’s easier and more beneficial to fake SAT scores and athletic prowess than it is to pretend to be black. (Or maybe that’s the one line even a scam artist won’t cross lmao.)

[Anonymous]

Thankfully, this will be the last admissions season where this silly game is still legal.

[Anonymous]

If you go by my family, we lie about our race 100% of the time lol.