How often do you think applicants lie about their race?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Good for them. What's your point?

The other pp was hypothesizing that the abysmally low rate of whites at JHU wasn’t really that bad because of International students. They assumed that meant whites really weren’t only present at 19%. The response was stating that that’s a wrong assumption since the majority of International students at Hopkins are Asian. Whites and Hispanics still at 19%, Blacks 15%. Whites are way under represented at JHU based on US demographics (65%). One could argue they were being unfairly discriminated against based on race alone, like the Harvard and UNC cases. It would be interesting to hear the rationale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Good for them. What's your point?

The other pp was hypothesizing that the abysmally low rate of whites at JHU wasn’t really that bad because of International students. They assumed that meant whites really weren’t only present at 19%. The response was stating that that’s a wrong assumption since the majority of International students at Hopkins are Asian. Whites and Hispanics still at 19%, Blacks 15%. Whites are way under represented at JHU based on US demographics (65%). One could argue they were being unfairly discriminated against based on race alone, like the Harvard and UNC cases. It would be interesting to hear the rationale.

^ meaning are there really that fewer number of Caucasian applicants to JHU compared to other races. If not, why are the numbers like they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Good for them. What's your point?

The other pp was hypothesizing that the abysmally low rate of whites at JHU wasn’t really that bad because of International students. They assumed that meant whites really weren’t only present at 19%. The response was stating that that’s a wrong assumption since the majority of International students at Hopkins are Asian. Whites and Hispanics still at 19%, Blacks 15%. Whites are way under represented at JHU based on US demographics (65%). One could argue they were being unfairly discriminated against based on race alone, like the Harvard and UNC cases. It would be interesting to hear the rationale.

I'm the pp you're responding to and also the pp who mentioned the international students. My point was who is the target population that JHU should represent? Their growing international pool might suggest they see themselves as an international university and that their overall undergraduate cohort should more closely resemble international demographics. In which case, the 19% is not under-representing whites. I don't expect that argument would be acceptable to anyone here. But then why should US demographics be the target? Why not Maryland or Baltimore?

[Anonymous]

Worked out perfectly for us.

[Anonymous]

I hold on to the hope that you’re trolling but this is DCUM.

[Anonymous]

No we are not Latino we are Hispanic. Amazing how many people don’t know the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

You are probably not following the Supreme Court case.
College admissions offices are deliberately lowering percentage of a group of people with bullshit insulting scores on kindness courage likability.

It's the 21st century. We don't need racism in the academic fields.

Regardless of what SCOTUS decides, what is happening is not 'racism'. For it to be racism, there would have to be hundreds of people in an admissions office colluding to exclude a specific group with every one of them capable of keeping the secret and none of them having the spine to go public. And those admissions offices include people of all races and backgrounds, and have people on staff whose job it is to ensure racism doesn't happen. And actually, it's thousands of people who would have to be keeping the secret, because while Harvard and UNC are named in lawsuits, the same thing is happening at all universities. Affirmative action may be found to be unconstitutional by this very biased court, but it is not a racist policy.

It is absolutely possible, and even probable, that what we are seeing is racism. Yes, hundreds of people in admissions offices can definitely have a racist bias against Asians. We see it here in this forum all the time - the attitude that Asians are just boring grade-grubbers and exam-crammers. Admissions officers are very much in the DCUM demographic and I venture to guess that they think the same way.

Furthermore, you are ignoring unconscious bias and systemic racism. Don't you believe those are actual things? I bet that if you do, you think they only operate against blacks, but it is very obvious they operate against Asians in this case.

Last but not least, the courts have found in other cases that it doesn't even matter if there isn't a conscious, racist conspiracy. If your practices have a disproportionately adverse effect on a minority even though your rules are formally race-neutral then you are discriminating by race and that is wrong. And there is no doubt that current admissions practices have a disproportionately adverse effect on Asians.

Your knowledge of the composition of admissions staffs is way off base. It is not at all similar to the DCUM crowd, with deliberate efforts to choose a very diverse group. Many of them are recent grads of the school where they work and care deeply about making sure it maintains the excellence they love so much that they want to try to convince others to attend.

They are mentally and ideologically exactly the same as the DCUM crowd - educated urban liberals. And like the DCUM crowd, they consider some types of "diversity" better than others. For whatever reason, black diversity is held to improve the "excellence" of these schools, but Asian diversity does not contribute to the "excellence" of these schools.

I'm confused how you can say that when 23.7% of Harvard freshman who report only one race are Asian, but only 6.1% of the US population is Asian. That's almost four times the representation in the general population and seems to value Asian diversity pretty highly. This is as contrasted with blacks, who make up 10.1% of the freshmen and 13.6% of the general population. They seem to be valued less than they ought to be.

Jews are 20-25% of Harvard but 2% of the population

So let’s not get into the “over representation” sweepstakes as a cudgel against Asians

10% of Harvard's undergraduate population is Jewish.

Source? I've seen higher numbers.

Even at 10% that's a massive overrepresentation don't you think?

Source is Hillel International. Graduate enrollment is much higher. https://www.hillel.org/college/harvard-university/

I don't think it's a massive overrepresentation. Jews, in general, value education, so they likely apply at a higher rate than many other groups. For many years there were quotas for Jews at Harvard (and many other Ivys). Other private schools that are not as selective as Harvard have a much higher percentage of Jews than their population such as Tulane (42%), GW (27%), WashU (26%), Ithaca (21%), American (20%), Lehigh (17%). It's not that unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

It was affirmative action was designed to do, be representative. Discrimination by race or religion is anti-American. The numbers reflect certain groups are being discriminated against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

Yeah, except in this case it is private organizations and not the government, and they are not applying the policy against any one specific race. So yeah, it's just like what a communist country would do except it is exactly the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

It was affirmative action was designed to do, be representative. Discrimination by race or religion is anti-American. The numbers reflect certain groups are being discriminated against.

So, if the policy is removed and there are no African American men at Harvard, that would also mean that "The numbers reflect certain groups are being discriminated against.", right?

Please answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

It was affirmative action was designed to do, be representative. Discrimination by race or religion is anti-American. The numbers reflect certain groups are being discriminated against.

Do you even understand discrimination? All things being equal, an entity that is getting a government handout (in this case, not paying taxes) is expected to not discriminate on the basis of race or religion. If you can prove that there were enough qualified White applicants who were 'wronged' by the university, there's a case for discrimination. Not otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

Yeah, except in this case it is private organizations and not the government, and they are not applying the policy against any one specific race. So yeah, it's just like what a communist country would do except it is exactly the opposite.

Not sure what you said there..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

I would hope it would be to not discriminate against anyone based on skin color/ethnicity.

Sure, and you would know that was happening when their demographics don't match...what population? Hopkins accepts a growing number of international applications (around 20%?) White people are around 15% of the world's population. So 19% for Hopkins seems fine then.

Hopkins International population is primarily from India, China and South Korea. Facts.

Yep. Not white. The 19% white stat is shocking but true. It’s very, very low considering the US population demographics.

Is there a law that says colleges should reflect the population mix of the country, state or city where they are located? If not, why is this an issue? Sounds like something a communist country would do..

It was affirmative action was designed to do, be representative. Discrimination by race or religion is anti-American. The numbers reflect certain groups are being discriminated against.

Do you even understand discrimination? All things being equal, an entity that is getting a government handout (in this case, not paying taxes) is expected to not discriminate on the basis of race or religion. If you can prove that there were enough qualified White applicants who were 'wronged' by the university, there's a case for discrimination. Not otherwise.

Well- yeah like the white students at UNC and the Asian students agains Harvard. I think all that’s been said and written lately they’d likely could have a case as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins is only 19% white (under-represented); 19% Hispanic; 15% Black; 29% Asian…

Curious.

Most Latinos at hopkins are fake

I think whites have a case to be made like that of UNC. 19% is discrimination on skin color. Their make up isn’t anywhere close to representative of US demographics. When colleges get to the point that they are basically saying we don’t want you here (which is pretty much what every talk on many campus is), it’s discrimination. It will be interesting to see if any of this changes after the Supreme Court case is heard.

Is the goal for Hopkins to match US demographics or Maryland/Baltimore? I would argue the latter, in which case they're really behind on Black too.

When will people understand that right now it is impossible for colleges to mirror the US population because the percentage of high school seniors who are "college-ready," meaning baseline academic skills skews heavily white and Asian?