Atheism’s sexual misconduct problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

Okay. And they still have nowhere near the power of big churches, regardless of their mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

DP. Whooosh—that’s the sound of you missing the comparison between a particular church’s attitude towards depression and the atheist group NAMBLA’s institutionalized support of pedophelia. Or, you’re deliberately missing the particular comparison because you’re dishonest.

Wow. Doubling down on defending sexual abuse by religious leaders. I mean I’ve seen some vile things on DCUM but you and the original PP are the sickest that I can remember. Awful.

I guess this gives me some insight as to how religions perpetuate and protect abusers but it is stomach-turning.

Lying histrionically is still lying. Everybody can see what those posters were talking about and how you’re lying about it.

Yes, we can all see it. We can see how the religious PP said that sexual abuse by Dawkins and NAMBLA is “morally worse.” Let’s hope that post stays up a long, long time, because it’s a master class in how religions protected child abusers.

As someone who was abused in the church, it’s absolutely sickening.

That was an atheist talking, you idiot. She was talking about the moral relativity of a church telling her not to seek help for her depression vs. atheist sexual abuse.

Are you the poster who claimed that pointing out atheist sexual abuse is “cherry picking”? Maybe you should turn your outrage on yourself.

So the master class continues. Here we have an outright liar who is trying to gaslight a sexual abuse survivor. The person who used the term “morally worse” is of course religious — we can all read — but in the typical way of religious sexual abuse defenders, attacking a sexual abuse victim and lying about what everyone can see is true is the method of choice.

Go away, troll. We can all read and it’s obvious the comparison was between depression and sexual abuse.

Are you embarrassed about your cherry-picking comment?

Are you furious because somebody finally called out atheists?

It’s weird that you think you’re “calling out atheists” and yet present no concrete evidence of molestations on a mass scale, the likes of which I could easily reproduce for you in 5 minutes. It’s like you want so badly to validate a poorly reasoned hypothesis.

I mean here are just a few of the massive scandals. In each of these cases the church fights tooth and nail to protect abusers, mainly clergy. The scale is orders of magnitude worse than whatever you accuse gross azz nambla of doing.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/13/1117362904/southern-baptists-doj-investigation-sexual-abuse

Or this https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/10/5/awful-truth-child-sex-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

Or this in Canada: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113498723/pope-francis-apology-canada-residential-schools-indigenous-children

Or 30,000 children in Ireland: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/20/irish-catholic-schools-child-abuse-claims

And you come in here with an organization with no roster or amount of members you can point to as your main source of evidence that atheists “are worse”.
It’s comical. The church is full of repressed men who rape children, and who are shielded by top level clergy, and then forgiven by their parish or flock, and you try to compare? This is the dumbest thread ever.

Oh for Pete’s sake.

How many times does it have to be repeated that the number of atheists is much smaller than the number of believers. Also, to date atheists haven’t been in charge of large institutions. But that’s changing, and we’re seeing abuse in secular schools and other secular institutions.

Also, I’m not Catholic or LDS. I just hate bigotry, shoddy reasoning and embarrassing math. Like the several among you who don’t understand how to use populations of various groups as denominators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

The Christian Faith, started by a prominent person who told people they were the son of God, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike atheism, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of a huge number of priests within the church.

Huge number? About 3,000 priests worldwide have been investigated for sexual abuse. Today there are 415,000 priests worldwide, and obviously that number is higher if you include priests who were in parishes going back to the 1950s when some of these 3,000 cases happened.

You do the math.

Don’t twist my words; even 3,000 is horrific and way too much.

But in terms of percentages of each group, this actually seems like a smaller share than the number of prominent atheists with sexual abuse issues. Like Silverman, Thorstad, Harris defending the physicist, or Richard “a little pedophilia isn’t bad” Dawkins.

What? They don’t like math in church either?

The scale is orders of magnitude worse than whatever you accuse gross azz nambla of doing.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/13/1117362904/southern...doj-investigation-sexual-abuse

An independent inquiry on Tuesday said it had concluded there were about 216,000 victims of sexual abuse carried out by the French Catholic Church’s clergy between 1950 and 2020.://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp...x-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

In total, 150,000 children from Canada's First Nations tribes were placed in 139 schools run under government contract — most by the Catholic Church — over a 150-year period.

A 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Commission report prompted by the harrowing tales of survivors concluded that "[children] were abused, physically and sexually, and they died in the schools in numbers that would not have been tolerated in any school system anywhere in the country.":https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113498723/pope-fra...al-schools-indigenous-children

Or 30,000 children in Ireland: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/w...lic-schools-child-abuse-claims

Or here’s 1000 more: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-church-sex-abuse-pennsylvania.html

It seems like whatever bullsht numbers you have pulled from your ass pale in comparison to the molestation from the worlds biggest offender, organized religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

DP. Whooosh—that’s the sound of you missing the comparison between a particular church’s attitude towards depression and the atheist group NAMBLA’s institutionalized support of pedophelia. Or, you’re deliberately missing the particular comparison because you’re dishonest.

Wow. Doubling down on defending sexual abuse by religious leaders. I mean I’ve seen some vile things on DCUM but you and the original PP are the sickest that I can remember. Awful.

I guess this gives me some insight as to how religions perpetuate and protect abusers but it is stomach-turning.

Lying histrionically is still lying. Everybody can see what those posters were talking about and how you’re lying about it.

Yes, we can all see it. We can see how the religious PP said that sexual abuse by Dawkins and NAMBLA is “morally worse.” Let’s hope that post stays up a long, long time, because it’s a master class in how religions protected child abusers.

As someone who was abused in the church, it’s absolutely sickening.

That was an atheist talking, you idiot. She was talking about the moral relativity of a church telling her not to seek help for her depression vs. atheist sexual abuse.

Are you the poster who claimed that pointing out atheist sexual abuse is “cherry picking”? Maybe you should turn your outrage on yourself.

So the master class continues. Here we have an outright liar who is trying to gaslight a sexual abuse survivor. The person who used the term “morally worse” is of course religious — we can all read — but in the typical way of religious sexual abuse defenders, attacking a sexual abuse victim and lying about what everyone can see is true is the method of choice.

Go away, troll. We can all read and it’s obvious the comparison was between depression and sexual abuse.

Are you embarrassed about your cherry-picking comment?

Are you furious because somebody finally called out atheists?

It’s weird that you think you’re “calling out atheists” and yet present no concrete evidence of molestations on a mass scale, the likes of which I could easily reproduce for you in 5 minutes. It’s like you want so badly to validate a poorly reasoned hypothesis.

I mean here are just a few of the massive scandals. In each of these cases the church fights tooth and nail to protect abusers, mainly clergy. The scale is orders of magnitude worse than whatever you accuse gross azz nambla of doing.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/13/1117362904/southern-baptists-doj-investigation-sexual-abuse

Or this https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/10/5/awful-truth-child-sex-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

Or this in Canada: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113498723/pope-francis-apology-canada-residential-schools-indigenous-children

Or 30,000 children in Ireland: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/20/irish-catholic-schools-child-abuse-claims

And you come in here with an organization with no roster or amount of members you can point to as your main source of evidence that atheists “are worse”.
It’s comical. The church is full of repressed men who rape children, and who are shielded by top level clergy, and then forgiven by their parish or flock, and you try to compare? This is the dumbest thread ever.

Oh for Pete’s sake.

How many times does it have to be repeated that the number of atheists is much smaller than the number of believers. Also, to date atheists haven’t been in charge of large institutions. But that’s changing, and we’re seeing abuse in secular schools and other secular institutions.

Also, I’m not Catholic or LDS. I just hate bigotry, shoddy reasoning and embarrassing math. Like the several among you who don’t understand how to use populations of various groups as denominators.

Where is the “shoddy” math in those links? Those are hundreds of thousands of abused children from priests. This entire thread rests on a faulty premise, it those numbers don’t lie. Why are you deflecting? Keep doubling down in the face of being disproven. It’s okay. We all see though you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

Okay. And they still have nowhere near the power of big churches, regardless of their mission.

Right? This constant point to nambla as if it’s on the same scale as the Catholic Church is ludicrous. Can you please name some more secular or atheist groups to bolster your point? As it, it’s a shaky foundation built on anectodes. However, I can easily find evidence the church has a terrible history with regard to molesting kids. It seems like you’re just defensive, but bad at this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

The Christian Faith, started by a prominent person who told people they were the son of God, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike atheism, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of a huge number of priests within the church.

Huge number? About 3,000 priests worldwide have been investigated for sexual abuse. Today there are 415,000 priests worldwide, and obviously that number is higher if you include priests who were in parishes going back to the 1950s when some of these 3,000 cases happened.

You do the math.

Don’t twist my words; even 3,000 is horrific and way too much.

But in terms of percentages of each group, this actually seems like a smaller share than the number of prominent atheists with sexual abuse issues. Like Silverman, Thorstad, Harris defending the physicist, or Richard “a little pedophilia isn’t bad” Dawkins.

Ok, NAMBLA and the Catholic Church are both morally repugnant organizations who should cease to exist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Atheists buy Supreme Court seats and make man/boy legal?

Huh? Who cares. Atheists founded NAMBLA with the exclusive mission of exploiting young boys.

You don't think making laws based in a religion is something we should care about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

The Christian Faith, started by a prominent person who told people they were the son of God, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike atheism, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of a huge number of priests within the church.

Huge number? About 3,000 priests worldwide have been investigated for sexual abuse. Today there are 415,000 priests worldwide, and obviously that number is higher if you include priests who were in parishes going back to the 1950s when some of these 3,000 cases happened.

You do the math.

Don’t twist my words; even 3,000 is horrific and way too much.

But in terms of percentages of each group, this actually seems like a smaller share than the number of prominent atheists with sexual abuse issues. Like Silverman, Thorstad, Harris defending the physicist, or Richard “a little pedophilia isn’t bad” Dawkins.

Your napkin math for all the molestations is impressive. I mean you name 4 individual atheists and then talk about nambla as a problem but offer no concrete figures at all. Its clear you must have a PhD in stats from Harvard and didn’t just throw some sht together in 3 minutes. Did you get a chance to read the articles mentioning hundreds of thousands of molestations by priests? You should check them out. There are real numbers in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

The Christian Faith, started by a prominent person who told people they were the son of God, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike atheism, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of a huge number of priests within the church.

Huge number? About 3,000 priests worldwide have been investigated for sexual abuse. Today there are 415,000 priests worldwide, and obviously that number is higher if you include priests who were in parishes going back to the 1950s when some of these 3,000 cases happened.

You do the math.

Don’t twist my words; even 3,000 is horrific and way too much.

But in terms of percentages of each group, this actually seems like a smaller share than the number of prominent atheists with sexual abuse issues. Like Silverman, Thorstad, Harris defending the physicist, or Richard “a little pedophilia isn’t bad” Dawkins.

Ok, NAMBLA and the Catholic Church are both morally repugnant organizations who should cease to exist

Agree. It would be great if both organizations, which facilitate molestation on a massive scale, would shutter their doors. The funny part is that nambla may actually pay more in taxes than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Atheists buy Supreme Court seats and make man/boy legal?

Huh? Who cares. Atheists founded NAMBLA with the exclusive mission of exploiting young boys.

You don't think making laws based in a religion is something we should care about?

What religion has laws condoning pederasty?

For the record, I’m pro-choice, but that’s not the subject of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Atheists buy Supreme Court seats and make man/boy legal?

Huh? Who cares. Atheists founded NAMBLA with the exclusive mission of exploiting young boys.

You don't think making laws based in a religion is something we should care about?

What religion has laws condoning pederasty?

For the record, I’m pro-choice, but that’s not the subject of this thread.

The LDS church lobbies to get states to pass extensive clergy privilege laws. They definitely don't condone committing crimes, but they encourage you not to snitch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

The Christian Faith, started by a prominent person who told people they were the son of God, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike atheism, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of a huge number of priests within the church.

Huge number? About 3,000 priests worldwide have been investigated for sexual abuse. Today there are 415,000 priests worldwide, and obviously that number is higher if you include priests who were in parishes going back to the 1950s when some of these 3,000 cases happened.

You do the math.

Don’t twist my words; even 3,000 is horrific and way too much.

But in terms of percentages of each group, this actually seems like a smaller share than the number of prominent atheists with sexual abuse issues. Like Silverman, Thorstad, Harris defending the physicist, or Richard “a little pedophilia isn’t bad” Dawkins.

Your napkin math for all the molestations is impressive. I mean you name 4 individual atheists and then talk about nambla as a problem but offer no concrete figures at all. Its clear you must have a PhD in stats from Harvard and didn’t just throw some sht together in 3 minutes. Did you get a chance to read the articles mentioning hundreds of thousands of molestations by priests? You should check them out. There are real numbers in them.

The math is incorrect, which further adds doubt to your claims. This is just one database tracking priest molestation: https://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/USCCB_Yearly_Data_on_Accused_Priests.htm

As of May 31, 2019, information published by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) indicates that the conference has counted 7,002 clerics "not implausibly" and "credibly" accused of sexually abusing minors in the period 1950 through June 30, 2018, with three gaps in the USCCB data. Out of the 118,184 priests who have worked in those years, the 7,002 priests accused of abusing children are 5.9% of the total. The USCCB reports also show that the conference has counted 20,052 victims who are known to the bishops in the period 1950 through June 30, 2018. After a brief introduction, we provide a table showing the sources for those numbers below.

Who are the 7,002 accused priests? Since 2005, BishopAccountability.org has maintained a Database of Accused Priests and other accused clergy. As of November 21, 2019, there were 6,488 names in that database, including 5,808 priests, 35 bishops, 108 deacons, and 47 seminarians, for a total of 5,998 accused clerics and future clerics, in those categories that the USCCB has counted – more than a thousand fewer than 7,002. Note that 370 religious brothers and 119 religious sisters are also listed in our database – categories not included in the USCCB data.

[Anonymous]

Nobody has criticized Dawkins for supporting “moderate” pedophilia. Is he off-limits or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not reading all the comments but it’s worse when an acceptance of the abuse and a refusal to report abuse is tied to God—to your membership in the only community you have ever known, to going to heaven (and for Mormons that means being with your family after you die), and sometimes keeping your job (if you work for the church or BYU).

I was never in a situation involving but I did some messed up things to myself and others because I was brainwashed into thinking I had to. Like I believed that my depression was my fault and instead of getting out of bad situations I felt like a terrible person, things like that. It’s the same concept with abuse, your gut might tell you to report but you have handed over your idea of right and wrong to the institution, so you just do what the institution tells you to do.

I’m sorry for your situation. Some religions do tell you to fix your own mental issues, and that’s wrong.

To me it’s morally worse, though, when a small boy is lured into a pedophile situation by an atheist group like NAMBLA or Dawkins thinking “mild” pedophelia is acceptable (apparently Dawkins’ teachers groped him in boarding school and he thinks that was ok). To me, this is on the same level as pedo priests—worse, even, because NAMBLA is an organization with the sole purpose of promoting pedophelia.

I don’t mean worse as a moral matter, I mean worse in terms of potential for abuse.

Nice backpedaling. We can all read your defense of religious sexual abusers ourselves, thanks.

No, I’m the PP who said that sexual abuse is worse in a religious institution because there is greater potential for abuse and coverup. I was trying to distinguish between that and the heinousness of any particular instance of abuse. I definitely agree that a group of atheists luring young boys in to abuse then is as bad as priests doing the same; the difference is that with a religious you have an entire organization that includes family members, mentors, community members, etc who abusers can exploit into being complicit because of the power the institution has over them.

And yeah, anybody who said there are atheist organizations with as much power and control over the Mormon church, much less the Catholic Church, probably doesn’t understand the extent of the power of these organizations.

The National American Man-Boy Love Association, started by a prominent atheist, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike the church, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of NAMBLA.

The Christian Faith, started by a prominent person who told people they were the son of God, is a whole organization and community with power they exploit over young boys. In fact, unlike atheism, exploiting power over young boys is the entire mission of a huge number of priests within the church.

Huge number? About 3,000 priests worldwide have been investigated for sexual abuse. Today there are 415,000 priests worldwide, and obviously that number is higher if you include priests who were in parishes going back to the 1950s when some of these 3,000 cases happened.

You do the math.

Don’t twist my words; even 3,000 is horrific and way too much.

But in terms of percentages of each group, this actually seems like a smaller share than the number of prominent atheists with sexual abuse issues. Like Silverman, Thorstad, Harris defending the physicist, or Richard “a little pedophilia isn’t bad” Dawkins.

Your napkin math for all the molestations is impressive. I mean you name 4 individual atheists and then talk about nambla as a problem but offer no concrete figures at all. Its clear you must have a PhD in stats from Harvard and didn’t just throw some sht together in 3 minutes. Did you get a chance to read the articles mentioning hundreds of thousands of molestations by priests? You should check them out. There are real numbers in them.

The math is incorrect, which further adds doubt to your claims. This is just one database tracking priest molestation: https://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/USCCB_Yearly_Data_on_Accused_Priests.htm

As of May 31, 2019, information published by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) indicates that the conference has counted 7,002 clerics "not implausibly" and "credibly" accused of sexually abusing minors in the period 1950 through June 30, 2018, with three gaps in the USCCB data. Out of the 118,184 priests who have worked in those years, the 7,002 priests accused of abusing children are 5.9% of the total. The USCCB reports also show that the conference has counted 20,052 victims who are known to the bishops in the period 1950 through June 30, 2018. After a brief introduction, we provide a table showing the sources for those numbers below.

Who are the 7,002 accused priests? Since 2005, BishopAccountability.org has maintained a Database of Accused Priests and other accused clergy. As of November 21, 2019, there were 6,488 names in that database, including 5,808 priests, 35 bishops, 108 deacons, and 47 seminarians, for a total of 5,998 accused clerics and future clerics, in those categories that the USCCB has counted – more than a thousand fewer than 7,002. Note that 370 religious brothers and 119 religious sisters are also listed in our database – categories not included in the USCCB data.

I think everybody here has agreed that priestly abuse is horrific.

The issue, though, is on a per capita basis. Your raw numbers are the wrong measure, because there’s no way you can expect atheists, who are a small share of the population and haven’t run large institutions until recently, will have equal raw numbers of abusers. So it’s not clear why you keep coming back to that. There’s also no data on how many pedophiles on the street or in your neighborhood are atheists, so we can’t talk about that data. So not only is the denominator for atheists smaller, it’s also under counting.

It’s the per capita numbers that tell us than men in power are probably equally likely to be sexual abusers, whether they’re religious or atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has criticized Dawkins for supporting “moderate” pedophilia. Is he off-limits or something?

Oh he can F off for so many reasons.

Churches still create good conditions for abuse.