The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

Yep. If my husband was alone in a hotel room with a “friend” and hookers, he would get more than a ”that sounds bizarre”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:However people die, I think it has to happen on the water or beach, or from falling/jumping/getting pushed off a cliff. I just have a hard time seeing how one of these characters disposes of a body in the ocean.

So the deaths probably happen outside or on a boat or jets. That is more limiting in terms of how it happens. I don't think we're talking about someone getting caught in the act of something (like cheating) and murder ensuing. More likely a misunderstanding that leads to a push/fall, or something happening out in the water when people are very drunk and/or high (lots of drugs and alcohol in this season, as in last, and I feel confident they play some role in the deaths).

Hookup/assault in the water behind those rocks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I'm on the fence about this because normally I would totally agree with you but the way that night unfolded was weird. The two points when Ethan "agrees" to things with the girls are when the girls come and sit at their table (you can tell he doesn't love the idea but he also says nothing to stop it so that's consent), and then when the girls and Cameron are banging on the adjoining doors and he decides to open them.

We never see him hitting on the girls, touching them, kissing them. Mia kisses him but he is not responsive and turns her down.

He does choose to drink and take the drugs, that's his choice and that's a perfectly fair thing to be unhappy with your spouse for either doing or concealing from you (I really think Harper is only upset he didn't just tell her that he did molly instead of playing it off as a regular hangover -- lying about drug use is a major red flag for me and for a lot of people, even if I'm not opposed to drug use on principle).

I definitely think he's guilty of letting things go too far and for not bowing out of the situation when he had the chance. He could have refused to open the doors, or simply left his room and gone and hung out by the pool or at the bar instead, to get away from the temptation. Choosing to participate was questionable and only made more so when he doesn't tell Harper what happened. I don't buy that he owes Cameron anything due to "bro code" -- Ethan has been lukewarm, at best, on Cameron from the start, clearly seems to be on this trip largely to show him up. He owes him nothing, as far as I'm concerned. He owes Harper honestly.

But having said all that, I would not say he cheated. He does not hire the hookers, he just sort of allows Cameron to do it and doesn't leave. He doesn't have sex with either of them and he turns down one when she kisses him. He gets wasted, yes, and he gives into Cameron's pressure to "party". But he doesn't actually cross that line for me, and if he'd just told Harper what happened from the start, I honestly don't think there would be any conflict there. After all, Harper also got somewhat strong-armed into her evening with Daphne but still willingly takes edibles and chooses to hang out with her instead of hiring a car to take her back, which she could have done. I think Harper would have been sympathetic to Ethan going along with plans he didn't love in order to not be a killjoy or offend someone, as that's basically what Harper did too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However people die, I think it has to happen on the water or beach, or from falling/jumping/getting pushed off a cliff. I just have a hard time seeing how one of these characters disposes of a body in the ocean.

So the deaths probably happen outside or on a boat or jets. That is more limiting in terms of how it happens. I don't think we're talking about someone getting caught in the act of something (like cheating) and murder ensuing. More likely a misunderstanding that leads to a push/fall, or something happening out in the water when people are very drunk and/or high (lots of drugs and alcohol in this season, as in last, and I feel confident they play some role in the deaths).

Hookup/assault in the water behind those rocks?

But Rocco says several more guests were killed. So those bodies could be in a hotel room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I'm on the fence about this because normally I would totally agree with you but the way that night unfolded was weird. The two points when Ethan "agrees" to things with the girls are when the girls come and sit at their table (you can tell he doesn't love the idea but he also says nothing to stop it so that's consent), and then when the girls and Cameron are banging on the adjoining doors and he decides to open them.

We never see him hitting on the girls, touching them, kissing them. Mia kisses him but he is not responsive and turns her down.

He does choose to drink and take the drugs, that's his choice and that's a perfectly fair thing to be unhappy with your spouse for either doing or concealing from you (I really think Harper is only upset he didn't just tell her that he did molly instead of playing it off as a regular hangover -- lying about drug use is a major red flag for me and for a lot of people, even if I'm not opposed to drug use on principle).

I definitely think he's guilty of letting things go too far and for not bowing out of the situation when he had the chance. He could have refused to open the doors, or simply left his room and gone and hung out by the pool or at the bar instead, to get away from the temptation. Choosing to participate was questionable and only made more so when he doesn't tell Harper what happened. I don't buy that he owes Cameron anything due to "bro code" -- Ethan has been lukewarm, at best, on Cameron from the start, clearly seems to be on this trip largely to show him up. He owes him nothing, as far as I'm concerned. He owes Harper honestly.

But having said all that, I would not say he cheated. He does not hire the hookers, he just sort of allows Cameron to do it and doesn't leave. He doesn't have sex with either of them and he turns down one when she kisses him. He gets wasted, yes, and he gives into Cameron's pressure to "party". But he doesn't actually cross that line for me, and if he'd just told Harper what happened from the start, I honestly don't think there would be any conflict there. After all, Harper also got somewhat strong-armed into her evening with Daphne but still willingly takes edibles and chooses to hang out with her instead of hiring a car to take her back, which she could have done. I think Harper would have been sympathetic to Ethan going along with plans he didn't love in order to not be a killjoy or offend someone, as that's basically what Harper did too.

I agree with this. I would be furious about the lying but not necessarily what happened that night. I think particularly in the context of knowing that these two guys have this kind of relationship and having first hand experience at how domineering Cameron can be and how Ethan seems prone to being weirdly submissive to him to that point that I would give spouse the benefit of the doubt and think Cam was the scumbag. I would be mad but not like, 'you cheated on me we're getting divorced mad'. But the lying would be a totally different thing. That would be very very problematic to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However people die, I think it has to happen on the water or beach, or from falling/jumping/getting pushed off a cliff. I just have a hard time seeing how one of these characters disposes of a body in the ocean.

So the deaths probably happen outside or on a boat or jets. That is more limiting in terms of how it happens. I don't think we're talking about someone getting caught in the act of something (like cheating) and murder ensuing. More likely a misunderstanding that leads to a push/fall, or something happening out in the water when people are very drunk and/or high (lots of drugs and alcohol in this season, as in last, and I feel confident they play some role in the deaths).

Hookup/assault in the water behind those rocks?

But Rocco says several more guests were killed. So those bodies could be in a hotel room.

There is no reason an assault couldn't happen on a boat. I wonder about the Leda story in that Zeus tricks Leda by assuming the form of the swan. Maybe there is an encounter in a dark room and Harper or Daphne is assaulted but don't realize it at the time because they think they are with Cam or Ethan. Or any of the women think they are with someone they would consent to but find out they have been tricked. Leda in mythology was famed for her beautiful white skin and black hair, that could be Lucia or Harper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I forget the exact wording of Harper's line but it was something like "Yeah it sounds crazy! I leave for one night and you're doing molly with hookers?!"

I LOL'd. I really enjoy the current DGAF version of Harper

[Anonymous]

I’m wondering if Portia will lose her marbles when she finds out this guy is using her… She’s already alluded to being depressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I'm on the fence about this because normally I would totally agree with you but the way that night unfolded was weird. The two points when Ethan "agrees" to things with the girls are when the girls come and sit at their table (you can tell he doesn't love the idea but he also says nothing to stop it so that's consent), and then when the girls and Cameron are banging on the adjoining doors and he decides to open them.

We never see him hitting on the girls, touching them, kissing them. Mia kisses him but he is not responsive and turns her down.

He does choose to drink and take the drugs, that's his choice and that's a perfectly fair thing to be unhappy with your spouse for either doing or concealing from you (I really think Harper is only upset he didn't just tell her that he did molly instead of playing it off as a regular hangover -- lying about drug use is a major red flag for me and for a lot of people, even if I'm not opposed to drug use on principle).

I definitely think he's guilty of letting things go too far and for not bowing out of the situation when he had the chance. He could have refused to open the doors, or simply left his room and gone and hung out by the pool or at the bar instead, to get away from the temptation. Choosing to participate was questionable and only made more so when he doesn't tell Harper what happened. I don't buy that he owes Cameron anything due to "bro code" -- Ethan has been lukewarm, at best, on Cameron from the start, clearly seems to be on this trip largely to show him up. He owes him nothing, as far as I'm concerned. He owes Harper honestly.

But having said all that, I would not say he cheated. He does not hire the hookers, he just sort of allows Cameron to do it and doesn't leave. He doesn't have sex with either of them and he turns down one when she kisses him. He gets wasted, yes, and he gives into Cameron's pressure to "party". But he doesn't actually cross that line for me, and if he'd just told Harper what happened from the start, I honestly don't think there would be any conflict there. After all, Harper also got somewhat strong-armed into her evening with Daphne but still willingly takes edibles and chooses to hang out with her instead of hiring a car to take her back, which she could have done. I think Harper would have been sympathetic to Ethan going along with plans he didn't love in order to not be a killjoy or offend someone, as that's basically what Harper did too.

I agree with this. I would be furious about the lying but not necessarily what happened that night. I think particularly in the context of knowing that these two guys have this kind of relationship and having first hand experience at how domineering Cameron can be and how Ethan seems prone to being weirdly submissive to him to that point that I would give spouse the benefit of the doubt and think Cam was the scumbag. I would be mad but not like, 'you cheated on me we're getting divorced mad'. But the lying would be a totally different thing. That would be very very problematic to me.

I agree, if my husband said this happened, I would not be upset. He’s an adult and I expect and trust that he can live according to his moral standards even if friends aren’t. On the other hand, Ethan is acting out of character and there is a weird power dynamic with Cameron. In this case, I would have questions about what really happened even if Ethan told me. Because Cameron gets him to go along with things and they have a very strange relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I'm on the fence about this because normally I would totally agree with you but the way that night unfolded was weird. The two points when Ethan "agrees" to things with the girls are when the girls come and sit at their table (you can tell he doesn't love the idea but he also says nothing to stop it so that's consent), and then when the girls and Cameron are banging on the adjoining doors and he decides to open them.

We never see him hitting on the girls, touching them, kissing them. Mia kisses him but he is not responsive and turns her down.

He does choose to drink and take the drugs, that's his choice and that's a perfectly fair thing to be unhappy with your spouse for either doing or concealing from you (I really think Harper is only upset he didn't just tell her that he did molly instead of playing it off as a regular hangover -- lying about drug use is a major red flag for me and for a lot of people, even if I'm not opposed to drug use on principle).

I definitely think he's guilty of letting things go too far and for not bowing out of the situation when he had the chance. He could have refused to open the doors, or simply left his room and gone and hung out by the pool or at the bar instead, to get away from the temptation. Choosing to participate was questionable and only made more so when he doesn't tell Harper what happened. I don't buy that he owes Cameron anything due to "bro code" -- Ethan has been lukewarm, at best, on Cameron from the start, clearly seems to be on this trip largely to show him up. He owes him nothing, as far as I'm concerned. He owes Harper honestly.

But having said all that, I would not say he cheated. He does not hire the hookers, he just sort of allows Cameron to do it and doesn't leave. He doesn't have sex with either of them and he turns down one when she kisses him. He gets wasted, yes, and he gives into Cameron's pressure to "party". But he doesn't actually cross that line for me, and if he'd just told Harper what happened from the start, I honestly don't think there would be any conflict there. After all, Harper also got somewhat strong-armed into her evening with Daphne but still willingly takes edibles and chooses to hang out with her instead of hiring a car to take her back, which she could have done. I think Harper would have been sympathetic to Ethan going along with plans he didn't love in order to not be a killjoy or offend someone, as that's basically what Harper did too.

I agree with this. I would be furious about the lying but not necessarily what happened that night. I think particularly in the context of knowing that these two guys have this kind of relationship and having first hand experience at how domineering Cameron can be and how Ethan seems prone to being weirdly submissive to him to that point that I would give spouse the benefit of the doubt and think Cam was the scumbag. I would be mad but not like, 'you cheated on me we're getting divorced mad'. But the lying would be a totally different thing. That would be very very problematic to me.

The lying is why Harper is brimming with rage. Yes, but also Ethan is getting too much forgiveness. He’s basically torturing Harper but he’s not explicitly crossing societies lines so she’s the messy one. If she gets out of this alive she needs to take all his money and run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I forget the exact wording of Harper's line but it was something like "Yeah it sounds crazy! I leave for one night and you're doing molly with hookers?!"

I LOL'd. I really enjoy the current DGAF version of Harper

And yes, he conveniently left out that they kissed before he made his heroic stand and retreated to the bathroom to cry. Although it really was Mia kissing him and not vice versa so I kind of give him a pass there. (But not for doing Molly with hookers and then lying about it).

[Anonymous]

Ok interesting note on frescoes I went back and watched the season one credits and in there Jennifer Coolidge IS the monkey. So it is interesting that in the updated fresco there is a woman with a monkey on a chain. The season one monkey looks like a female with a flower in its ear, the season two monkey looks male and has its tail between its legs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:However people die, I think it has to happen on the water or beach, or from falling/jumping/getting pushed off a cliff. I just have a hard time seeing how one of these characters disposes of a body in the ocean.

So the deaths probably happen outside or on a boat or jets. That is more limiting in terms of how it happens. I don't think we're talking about someone getting caught in the act of something (like cheating) and murder ensuing. More likely a misunderstanding that leads to a push/fall, or something happening out in the water when people are very drunk and/or high (lots of drugs and alcohol in this season, as in last, and I feel confident they play some role in the deaths).

I feel like that's what Mike White wants you to think - but who could have predicted that Armond would get stabbed after taking a dump in Shane's suitcase. Mike White loves to toy with our expectations and give us the unexpected!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

I'm on the fence about this because normally I would totally agree with you but the way that night unfolded was weird. The two points when Ethan "agrees" to things with the girls are when the girls come and sit at their table (you can tell he doesn't love the idea but he also says nothing to stop it so that's consent), and then when the girls and Cameron are banging on the adjoining doors and he decides to open them.

We never see him hitting on the girls, touching them, kissing them. Mia kisses him but he is not responsive and turns her down.

He does choose to drink and take the drugs, that's his choice and that's a perfectly fair thing to be unhappy with your spouse for either doing or concealing from you (I really think Harper is only upset he didn't just tell her that he did molly instead of playing it off as a regular hangover -- lying about drug use is a major red flag for me and for a lot of people, even if I'm not opposed to drug use on principle).

I definitely think he's guilty of letting things go too far and for not bowing out of the situation when he had the chance. He could have refused to open the doors, or simply left his room and gone and hung out by the pool or at the bar instead, to get away from the temptation. Choosing to participate was questionable and only made more so when he doesn't tell Harper what happened. I don't buy that he owes Cameron anything due to "bro code" -- Ethan has been lukewarm, at best, on Cameron from the start, clearly seems to be on this trip largely to show him up. He owes him nothing, as far as I'm concerned. He owes Harper honestly.

But having said all that, I would not say he cheated. He does not hire the hookers, he just sort of allows Cameron to do it and doesn't leave. He doesn't have sex with either of them and he turns down one when she kisses him. He gets wasted, yes, and he gives into Cameron's pressure to "party". But he doesn't actually cross that line for me, and if he'd just told Harper what happened from the start, I honestly don't think there would be any conflict there. After all, Harper also got somewhat strong-armed into her evening with Daphne but still willingly takes edibles and chooses to hang out with her instead of hiring a car to take her back, which she could have done. I think Harper would have been sympathetic to Ethan going along with plans he didn't love in order to not be a killjoy or offend someone, as that's basically what Harper did too.

I agree with this. I would be furious about the lying but not necessarily what happened that night. I think particularly in the context of knowing that these two guys have this kind of relationship and having first hand experience at how domineering Cameron can be and how Ethan seems prone to being weirdly submissive to him to that point that I would give spouse the benefit of the doubt and think Cam was the scumbag. I would be mad but not like, 'you cheated on me we're getting divorced mad'. But the lying would be a totally different thing. That would be very very problematic to me.

I agree, if my husband said this happened, I would not be upset. He’s an adult and I expect and trust that he can live according to his moral standards even if friends aren’t. On the other hand, Ethan is acting out of character and there is a weird power dynamic with Cameron. In this case, I would have questions about what really happened even if Ethan told me. Because Cameron gets him to go along with things and they have a very strange relationship.

Right. And Harper definitely has those questions.

I think that scene was so effective because you can kind of see where each of them is coming from. To Ethan, this was Cameron's indiscretion and he knows he should not have gotten as involved as he did, but he doesn't feel like he personally crossed any lines. And he doesn't see any harm in going along with Cameron's "bro code" request because he doesn't see any reason why Harper needs to know, and she's already not a Cameron fan so it's just going to make things even worse in that regard if he tells her.

Of course, if you're Harper, Ethan seems completely untrustworthy at this point because he said nothing happened until he saw the condom wrapper, and then it was conveniently Cameron's bc he was having sex with a hooker in Ethan and Harper's room. Which is exactly what Ethan would say if the condom wrapper WAS his.

I thought it was petty well-written in that regard

Anyway, I thought

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However people die, I think it has to happen on the water or beach, or from falling/jumping/getting pushed off a cliff. I just have a hard time seeing how one of these characters disposes of a body in the ocean.

So the deaths probably happen outside or on a boat or jets. That is more limiting in terms of how it happens. I don't think we're talking about someone getting caught in the act of something (like cheating) and murder ensuing. More likely a misunderstanding that leads to a push/fall, or something happening out in the water when people are very drunk and/or high (lots of drugs and alcohol in this season, as in last, and I feel confident they play some role in the deaths).

I feel like that's what Mike White wants you to think - but who could have predicted that Armond would get stabbed after taking a dump in Shane's suitcase. Mike White loves to toy with our expectations and give us the unexpected!

Meanwhile Shane Armond dueling with each other was in front of our eyes wide shut the whole time. Remember the distraction of the jewelry heist last season?