The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to say that the death in the first season was an accident not a murder and I would imagine it will be somewhat similar this time around. I think the point of the show is that it is these people's carelessness and selfishness and lack of empathy that results in the tragedy. The whodunnit element was a total red herring the first time around.

+1, was just thinking this. I think it's highly unlikely that someone murders someone else in cold blood, and the idea that one character would murder another and then get murdered by yet another character really strains credulity. One thing I like about this show is that, while it's heightened and played for drama, most of the characters and what happens is somewhat realistic.

I think it's most likely that the bodies in the water are there from drug overdose, falling overboard while out on a boat (or jet skis), natural causes (ahem, Bert), or maybe an altercation that no one intends to be deadly but winds up that way. I am open to the idea of something more nefarious because I don't think they'll just want to repeat the "accidental violent death" storyline from last season, but I doubt we're going to get a straight up murder. Especially because the show has been very heavy handed with all the references to murder this season, and I just don't think Mike White is that literal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to say that the death in the first season was an accident not a murder and I would imagine it will be somewhat similar this time around. I think the point of the show is that it is these people's carelessness and selfishness and lack of empathy that results in the tragedy. The whodunnit element was a total red herring the first time around.

+1, was just thinking this. I think it's highly unlikely that someone murders someone else in cold blood, and the idea that one character would murder another and then get murdered by yet another character really strains credulity. One thing I like about this show is that, while it's heightened and played for drama, most of the characters and what happens is somewhat realistic.

I think it's most likely that the bodies in the water are there from drug overdose, falling overboard while out on a boat (or jet skis), natural causes (ahem, Bert), or maybe an altercation that no one intends to be deadly but winds up that way. I am open to the idea of something more nefarious because I don't think they'll just want to repeat the "accidental violent death" storyline from last season, but I doubt we're going to get a straight up murder. Especially because the show has been very heavy handed with all the references to murder this season, and I just don't think Mike White is that literal.

I think suicide is a possibility too. Maybe Nonno bc he was so crushed by Dom's characterization of his marriage. I think Lucia getting killed is likely - maybe not a premeditated murder, but a confrontation with either Cameron or Albie/Dom that spirals out of control

I think it would be an interesting twist if Albie turns out to be the "bad guy" w/r/t Lucia. He has some incel energy bubbling underneath the wokeness and it might underline the point that it's hard to break the toxic masculinity cycle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to say that the death in the first season was an accident not a murder and I would imagine it will be somewhat similar this time around. I think the point of the show is that it is these people's carelessness and selfishness and lack of empathy that results in the tragedy. The whodunnit element was a total red herring the first time around.

+1, was just thinking this. I think it's highly unlikely that someone murders someone else in cold blood, and the idea that one character would murder another and then get murdered by yet another character really strains credulity. One thing I like about this show is that, while it's heightened and played for drama, most of the characters and what happens is somewhat realistic.

I think it's most likely that the bodies in the water are there from drug overdose, falling overboard while out on a boat (or jet skis), natural causes (ahem, Bert), or maybe an altercation that no one intends to be deadly but winds up that way. I am open to the idea of something more nefarious because I don't think they'll just want to repeat the "accidental violent death" storyline from last season, but I doubt we're going to get a straight up murder. Especially because the show has been very heavy handed with all the references to murder this season, and I just don't think Mike White is that literal.

It’s an accident but both Shane and Armond were raging enough to kill, just happened to be an accident.

[Anonymous]

So maybe Cameron kills Harper on accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So maybe Cameron kills Harper on accident.

I’m the PP but to me this would be the most similar to Season 1. Cameron is Shane and Harper is most similar to Armond personality wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to say that the death in the first season was an accident not a murder and I would imagine it will be somewhat similar this time around. I think the point of the show is that it is these people's carelessness and selfishness and lack of empathy that results in the tragedy. The whodunnit element was a total red herring the first time around.

+1, was just thinking this. I think it's highly unlikely that someone murders someone else in cold blood, and the idea that one character would murder another and then get murdered by yet another character really strains credulity. One thing I like about this show is that, while it's heightened and played for drama, most of the characters and what happens is somewhat realistic.

I think it's most likely that the bodies in the water are there from drug overdose, falling overboard while out on a boat (or jet skis), natural causes (ahem, Bert), or maybe an altercation that no one intends to be deadly but winds up that way. I am open to the idea of something more nefarious because I don't think they'll just want to repeat the "accidental violent death" storyline from last season, but I doubt we're going to get a straight up murder. Especially because the show has been very heavy handed with all the references to murder this season, and I just don't think Mike White is that literal.

It’s an accident but both Shane and Armond were raging enough to kill, just happened to be an accident.

I disagree that they could have killed. Shane was a huge jerk but not lacking in that kind of self-control. He does all kinds of ridiculous things during the season but is never violent. Armand was hopped up on drugs in that last scene so I think there is more likelihood that he might have done something violent, but it's notable that the thing he does to punish Shane is take a sh** in his suitcase, which is petty and passive aggressive. Which is in keeping with his character who, again, was never violent.

Ethan is the only character from whom I've seen a flash of anger that I think could potentially be homicidal. Cameron is the sort to lie, manipulate, and dissemble his way out of a jam with Lucia -- I don't think he'd murder her.

I also think Tanya is a potential suicide risk. She has serious mental health issues with massive mood swings (see, e.g. the scene with the tarot card reader that ended with her crawling into bed despondently) and has reference suicide multiple times. Her first comment upon walking out onto the clifftop patio where they eat breakfast was "I wonder if anyone has ever jumped." In fact, I think if Greg is plotting with Quentin and Jack, this is the actual goal -- to unsettle Tanya so thoroughly that she kills herself, perhaps by befriending her and then betraying her, which I do think would realistically destroy her because she has an extremely fragile ego and she's really let her guard down with Quentin thanks to the flattery. I don't think it's beyond Greg to understand this about her, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So maybe Cameron kills Harper on accident.

I’m the PP but to me this would be the most similar to Season 1. Cameron is Shane and Harper is most similar to Armond personality wise.

I would be disappointed in this outcome because it would feel more like trying to repeat Season 1 than actually showing us something interesting about THESE characters in this situation. Shane/Armand had a totally different dynamic than Cameron/Harper, plus however the Cameron and Harper storylines resolve, I think Ethan has to play a central role because he's the character that the foursome seems to hinge on and we still understand him the least. I think it's been mentioned here as well as on podcasts, as well, but Will Sharpe is a really extraordinary actor and so far he's been given very little to do on the show. I am waiting for the scene that Mike White wrote specifically knowing that Sharpe would have to be the actor to pull it off. We aren't there yet.

Also, I know this thought came from a podcast I listened to earlier this week (so not my original thought) but there is similar logic for F. Murray Abraham, who plays Bert. He's spent the show kind of doddering around, being skeevy towards women, and chastising Dom a bit. I think we're in for Bert to have a scene or two that better justifies that casting because FMA is capable of really commanding a scene. Also true, to a lesser degree, for Imperioli. I think we're going to get some fireworks on the trip to the ancestral home.

[Anonymous]

Dominic commits suicide, I think. They’ve shown cliffs several times after panning away from him. He’s messed up his relationship with his wife and his daughter, and now he sees he’s done to his son what his Dad did to him.

[Anonymous]

I am struggling to come up with a suicide. I think Harper ends up getting assaulted by Cameron. The hints at a r&pe have been clear. It could also happen to Lucia, but I think it is more likely Harper or Portia. The r*pe stories alluded to are Leda and the Swan and Hades and Persephone:

Leda and the Swan:
In Greek mythology, Leda was an Aetolian princess who became a Spartan queen. According to Ovid, she was famed for her beautiful black hair and snowy skin. Leda was admired by Zeus, who seduced her in the guise of a swan. As a swan, Zeus fell into her arms for protection from a pursuing eagle. Their consummation, on the same night as Leda lay with her husband Tyndareus, resulted in two eggs from which hatched Helen.

Hades and Persephone:
Persephone is the daughter of Zeus and Demeter. Hades wished to make her his wife, so he got permission from her father Zeus and help from Gaia to abduct her into the Underworld. When Persephone was picking flowers in a field, Hades emerged on his chariot from a crack on the earth, and carried off the unwilling Persephone; only Hecate and Helios witnessed the abduction, and later told Demeter. The 'r@pe' in question is actually more of an abduction but the imlpication is of course that as his forced wife she is forced to have s*x with him. Persephone and Hades had two children; one daughter, Melinoë,and one son, Zagreus. Melinoë became the goddess of nightmares and madness. Zagreus was a minor Greek god.

Notbaly Nonno frames the second as being GOOD for Persephone and says that history has interpreted the situation wrongly which implies HE is more dangerous than he seems IMO.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if Harper and Cameron will have a sexual encounter that goes bad - he seems like a "consent optional" kind of guy. Maybe they struggle and Harper kills him semi-accidentally (like hits him in the head with a lamp or something)

It would make sense for a show about sex/power

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if Harper and Cameron will have a sexual encounter that goes bad - he seems like a "consent optional" kind of guy. Maybe they struggle and Harper kills him semi-accidentally (like hits him in the head with a lamp or something)

It would make sense for a show about sex/power

Or Ethan walks in and kills him.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

Where are you getting that Harper came from wealth?
It was implied several times that they are both new to money and don’t know yet what they going to do with it.

I think the point was Harper doesn’t have kids so the family courts don’t have to make them tied at the hip for 18 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So maybe Cameron kills Harper on accident.

I’m the PP but to me this would be the most similar to Season 1. Cameron is Shane and Harper is most similar to Armond personality wise.

You mean the hotel manager gets accidently killed.

[Anonymous]

Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

[Anonymous]

However people die, I think it has to happen on the water or beach, or from falling/jumping/getting pushed off a cliff. I just have a hard time seeing how one of these characters disposes of a body in the ocean.

So the deaths probably happen outside or on a boat or jets. That is more limiting in terms of how it happens. I don't think we're talking about someone getting caught in the act of something (like cheating) and murder ensuing. More likely a misunderstanding that leads to a push/fall, or something happening out in the water when people are very drunk and/or high (lots of drugs and alcohol in this season, as in last, and I feel confident they play some role in the deaths).