I’m happy being a SAHM, except when others talk about it like I’m some kind of sucker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Surely you see that on a societal level worldwide, the economic disempowerment of women and corresponding lack of educational and professional opportunities is due to the idea that they SHOULD sacrifice themselves to stay home. That raising kids and taking care of the home for no pay is their role.

It’s fine if you choose to stay home and like your situation, but understand that you’re probably more privileged than the vast majority of SAHMs.

As for being a SAHM, I also think it’s ok to acknowledge that it is a high burnout job that isn’t for everyone. A lot of people struggle with it, more than really enjoy it. Housekeeping involves a lot of thankless repetitive tasks and caring for young kids round the clock can be very draining as you can barely get a break to think or tend to your own needs. I was lucky to be able to WFH with very flexible hours during the pandemic and there were parts of it I enjoyed and parts that really felt wearing after a year. I do think it entails some sacrifice of self for many women to conform to this traditional role and it’s fine to acknowledge that.

Housekeeping is different from childcare as you pointed out. SAHMs should be responsible for childcare, they are not the family maid.

What?? No. If you stay at home, your job is the kids and the home. Clean up for heaven's sake. You're not *too good* for it.

I’m not too good for it, I just don’t think I should do it or see it as my responsibility. My job is childcare. We have cleaners.

+2 PP must be older. ‘Housewives’ of the 50’s and 60’s were responsible for the housework, making dinner, and childcare. Current ‘SAHMs’ are just responsible for childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think being a stay at home mom is useless because you aren’t earning money and maybe not volunteering or doing much that is intellectual: what constitutes a “useful” life and why is that important? Can people with disabilities that prevent them from doing those things lead useful lives?

Exactly, and apparently nannies and daycare workers are "useless" as well, since they are doing the same thing as a SAHM, except for the pay.

All these women have internalized the idea that childcare, housework, and family organization are inherently unimportant. They are apparently not intellectual enough to understand that these jobs are devalued because they are traditionally viewed as the the work of women and the poor. They are devalued because they are hard, and rich white aristocrats didn’t want to do hard work, so they made women do it, or enslaved people to do it, or conscripted immigrants into indentured servitude to do it.

People who clean and care for children all day are lazy? Read a book, ok?

I'm a nanny because I choose to be. I tutor because I choose to do so.

I don't want to teach. I don't want to work in an office (BTDT). I don't want to do a whole host of things.

I would love to be a sahm, because I have the personality to love it. But I can't because that involves another adult in a relationship with me long-term (nothing on the horizon right now) and a child (again, nothing on the horizon right now, likely ever).

We each make choices for ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think being a stay at home mom is useless because you aren’t earning money and maybe not volunteering or doing much that is intellectual: what constitutes a “useful” life and why is that important? Can people with disabilities that prevent them from doing those things lead useful lives?

Exactly, and apparently nannies and daycare workers are "useless" as well, since they are doing the same thing as a SAHM, except for the pay.

All these women have internalized the idea that childcare, housework, and family organization are inherently unimportant. They are apparently not intellectual enough to understand that these jobs are devalued because they are traditionally viewed as the the work of women and the poor. They are devalued because they are hard, and rich white aristocrats didn’t want to do hard work, so they made women do it, or enslaved people to do it, or conscripted immigrants into indentured servitude to do it.

People who clean and care for children all day are lazy? Read a book, ok?

Maybe working moms who think SAHMs are useless are too busy making money to use their intellect for more than their jobs, so they never have time to get a clue about the broader picture of their worldview. (And the SAHMs who feel like they or other SHAMs are useless are just making choices to not use their brains)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in this case that person was Barak Obama.

I just heard an interview with him on an NPR podcast, and he said something about how Michelle’s mom had stretches where she was “just” a SAHM, and too often it’s women who make that sacrifice when they really should be working.

I really like Obama, and I’m a feminist, but seriously?

Especially after Covid I’m just not convinced that I’m the one making a “sacrifice”. Maybe my DH is the one sacrificing family time in order to work? And he likes his job but it’s hardly a “calling”, and it sure as heck isn’t a hobby. As far as I can tell I chose to SAH, I wasn’t suckered into it. There are good things and bad things about SAH, and there are good things and bad things about working. I wish our policies encouraged women AND men to SAH for stretches (a year or two) with young kids, and facilitated that choice with family leave policies or tax breaks (while also facilitating affordable day care for parents who want to work).

Anyway. I’m happy with my choice 90% of the time but it’s sucks to hear someone I admire denigrate my choices.

Yeah and I wish single people were paid by the government to take a year off and discover what they want to do with their life.

Pay for your own years of SAHP.

This is the most nonsensical comment. What a ridiculous argument. Go back to bed.

NP. Nope. Your choice to SAH is not going to be government-subsidized, nor should it be. Sorry.

Oh my goooooooddddd go find or start DC Urban Childless Millennials or something.

Seriously. I don’t know how the child free find this board but it would be better off without them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who weren't listening the first time - the problem is wage stagnation that has made most families NEED to have two full time working parents in order to afford a home with at least two bedrooms, a working car, etc.

Just think what our society could be like if part time work paid well (thus removing the need for full time day care) or if it wasn't a huge financial risk for a family to live on only one paycheck.

We are sheep. . .

THIS.


I wanted to be a SAHM but economically it was simply not feasible. I had an abortion with the mindset that later when we were more established it could work, at least temporarily. Later didn’t happen in that relationship - I think regret over the abortion, which we both chose but very reluctantly, ruined us - and ultimately I ended up childless after suffering a second trimester miscarriage in a later relationship when I was established in my career and really wasn’t sure how I’d manage to stay home for more than 12 weeks.

Our supports for childbearing in this country are really garbage, and with the increasing pressures of a declining birth rate largely because so many people can’t afford them, hopefully this will finally change. I’d like to see us invest in all kinds of families the way Iceland does - where even becoming a single mother isn’t an obstacle to getting an education and participation in the job market as much as one desires.

I would have loved to be a SAHM, probably for at least 5-10 years. I believe I have the qualities to have been a very good mom. But I also have been very enriched by my education and my career, and in my work I have contributed as greatly to society as good parenting would have done - maybe more.

I just think we need an economy that allows for all the choices to be truly free choices that don’t impose serious limitations on the ability to engage in other aspects of the human experience. Some women or men might want to be home for decades and never work beyond the home or school/community volunteering, others might want to do each part time, others might want to really focus on career. Excellent affordable (government subsidized, low cost or free) childcare would provide for all those choices, and open the door to increasing the quality of childcare across the board in this country. Perhaps parents who stay home should get a carer’s allowance that reflects the true value of this work in our society, and prevents families that choose that option from being penalized financially. And maybe all jobs across the board should not only offer equal pay for equal work, but a mandate on time off/phone and computers off so people are working a humane schedule and not exploited by rampant capitalism. Studies show a marked decrease in longevity of people who work 55+ hours a week - why do we insist on a work culture that celebrates overwork and workaholism?

Maybe someday Americans will make the connection that all of these things are at the root of the sickness of mind and body that is so prevalent in our society. Even so many of the so-called elites, the DCUMs of our society, are suffering the same ills of substance use disorders, other mental health disorders, marital breakdown, chronic illness and early deaths. Wealth doesn’t protect anyone from these things. We really need a fundamental rethink of what makes a successful life.

I’m not holding my breath. More often than not these days when I see what our society has become and is continuing to become, I’m glad not to have brought another soul - especially another female soul - into it.

This is literally the saddest thing I have ever read on here. You got pregnant and would have had to be a working mom….so you had an abortion, even though you wanted to be a mother? That isn’t the governments fault, that is yours. I also got pregnant under less than ideal circumstances and I can tell you from the other side, being a mother is far better than not being a mother. Even if I have to work, like many, many other mothers. Pretty sure my kid would also prefer to exist and have a mom who works….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Surely you see that on a societal level worldwide, the economic disempowerment of women and corresponding lack of educational and professional opportunities is due to the idea that they SHOULD sacrifice themselves to stay home. That raising kids and taking care of the home for no pay is their role.

It’s fine if you choose to stay home and like your situation, but understand that you’re probably more privileged than the vast majority of SAHMs.

As for being a SAHM, I also think it’s ok to acknowledge that it is a high burnout job that isn’t for everyone. A lot of people struggle with it, more than really enjoy it. Housekeeping involves a lot of thankless repetitive tasks and caring for young kids round the clock can be very draining as you can barely get a break to think or tend to your own needs. I was lucky to be able to WFH with very flexible hours during the pandemic and there were parts of it I enjoyed and parts that really felt wearing after a year. I do think it entails some sacrifice of self for many women to conform to this traditional role and it’s fine to acknowledge that.

Housekeeping is different from childcare as you pointed out. SAHMs should be responsible for childcare, they are not the family maid.

What?? No. If you stay at home, your job is the kids and the home. Clean up for heaven's sake. You're not *too good* for it.

I’m not too good for it, I just don’t think I should do it or see it as my responsibility. My job is childcare. We have cleaners.

+2 PP must be older. ‘Housewives’ of the 50’s and 60’s were responsible for the housework, making dinner, and childcare. Current ‘SAHMs’ are just responsible for childcare.

Incorrect. Even middle class white female hosiewices of the 50s and 60s had daily (non white) housekeepers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in this case that person was Barak Obama.

I just heard an interview with him on an NPR podcast, and he said something about how Michelle’s mom had stretches where she was “just” a SAHM, and too often it’s women who make that sacrifice when they really should be working.

I really like Obama, and I’m a feminist, but seriously?

Especially after Covid I’m just not convinced that I’m the one making a “sacrifice”. Maybe my DH is the one sacrificing family time in order to work? And he likes his job but it’s hardly a “calling”, and it sure as heck isn’t a hobby. As far as I can tell I chose to SAH, I wasn’t suckered into it. There are good things and bad things about SAH, and there are good things and bad things about working. I wish our policies encouraged women AND men to SAH for stretches (a year or two) with young kids, and facilitated that choice with family leave policies or tax breaks (while also facilitating affordable day care for parents who want to work).

Anyway. I’m happy with my choice 90% of the time but it’s sucks to hear someone I admire denigrate my choices.

Sorry you're in your feelings but you're all over the place here. He said it's often women who are the ones to sacrifice their careers/incomes to raise kids, and you disagree that it's a sacrifice because you don't want to work and chose to SAH, but also you wish policies encouraged both men and women to SAH? Why do men need to be encouraged if it's not a sacrifice?

Some people want to stay home. Some have to because of childcare expenses and inflexible work schedules. When it's not a first choice, it's a sacrifice. Most of the time, women are the ones who make that sacrifice. If SAH is what you always wanted to do and you're happy and don't feel like you're sacrificing, you're not the topic of conversation. "If it don't apply, let it fly." It's like hearing someone talk about how they gave up meat for Lent and getting pissed off that they say it's been hard because you were raised vegetarian and have no desire to eat meat. Everything is not about you.

For most women, it's not a sacrifice, it's a choice. They want to be home. For most men, it would be a sacrifice, because they would rather be at work. So yes, men need to be encouraged because it is a sacrifice for them, and women conversely need societal encouragement to go to work because many would rather be at home.

Citation needed.

+1

You won't find this to be true among pretty much all the women I know. Nice try, though.

Really? You know lots of SAHMs who would rather be at work? I'm guessing since you work you only associate with women who work, and therefore won't admit that they'd rather be home, because they need to work for money.

First of all, the PP said that most women want to be home. I think that statement is false. You tried to twist is to say that most SAHMs would rather work, which isn't the same thing. Read again slowly if you need to.

Second of all, how would I manage to only associate with women who work? I have many SAHM friends, some I knew from high school, some from college, some from the neighborhood, some from my or my husband's work (spouses who stay home), and some are the parents of my kids' friends. And yes, many of them were home for reasons other than that they purely wanted to. One's husband is an ER doctor and his inconsistent schedule made it difficult for her to work so she stayed home. One's husband traveled all the time for work, mostly internationally, and that made it really hard for her to work. One had serious medical complications after her pregnancy and was unable to go back to work. One's husband was in the military and their constant reassignments plus his hours made it difficult for her to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Surely you see that on a societal level worldwide, the economic disempowerment of women and corresponding lack of educational and professional opportunities is due to the idea that they SHOULD sacrifice themselves to stay home. That raising kids and taking care of the home for no pay is their role.

It’s fine if you choose to stay home and like your situation, but understand that you’re probably more privileged than the vast majority of SAHMs.

As for being a SAHM, I also think it’s ok to acknowledge that it is a high burnout job that isn’t for everyone. A lot of people struggle with it, more than really enjoy it. Housekeeping involves a lot of thankless repetitive tasks and caring for young kids round the clock can be very draining as you can barely get a break to think or tend to your own needs. I was lucky to be able to WFH with very flexible hours during the pandemic and there were parts of it I enjoyed and parts that really felt wearing after a year. I do think it entails some sacrifice of self for many women to conform to this traditional role and it’s fine to acknowledge that.

Housekeeping is different from childcare as you pointed out. SAHMs should be responsible for childcare, they are not the family maid.

What?? No. If you stay at home, your job is the kids and the home. Clean up for heaven's sake. You're not *too good* for it.

What?? No. Family needs a maid, they can hire a maid. As a SAH mom, I am available at home to supervise the maids, but I am not at home to clean the house. If you don't have the financial means to stay at home, you should be working. Even when I was working, I was not doing the cleaning at home and I had a maid. I cannot understand that WOHMs talk about working the second shift when they come back home from work. If you have to work a second shift, then so should your DH.

Look OP, I have a full-time nanny even though my kids are in elementary school so she's a part-time house manager as well. I have maids. And gardeners. But I'm not so stupid as to think that most people live this way. I do have the financial means to stay home but I don't want to. But for you to think that people need to be able to outsources cleaning and other things in order to stay home then you know a very, very, very small percentage of people. Maybe talk a walk during your SAHM time and talk to some people. Learn how the normal world works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a sahm for 3.5 years. I did it because I couldn’t outsource breastfeeding my child. While I enjoyed being a sahm, I always thought it wouldn’t be sustainable in the long run. Maybe I was just paranoid, but i did not think I was respected. I guess I cared too much of what other people think, so that’s my own problem. My self confidence was really low.

I went back to school and got a BSN. I have new skills and I feel more useful at home and in the community, and at the same time, proud that I sahm.

I am really glad you didn't say this to my face because I'm pretty sure I couldn't have held in my reaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in this case that person was Barak Obama.

I just heard an interview with him on an NPR podcast, and he said something about how Michelle’s mom had stretches where she was “just” a SAHM, and too often it’s women who make that sacrifice when they really should be working.

I really like Obama, and I’m a feminist, but seriously?

Especially after Covid I’m just not convinced that I’m the one making a “sacrifice”. Maybe my DH is the one sacrificing family time in order to work? And he likes his job but it’s hardly a “calling”, and it sure as heck isn’t a hobby. As far as I can tell I chose to SAH, I wasn’t suckered into it. There are good things and bad things about SAH, and there are good things and bad things about working. I wish our policies encouraged women AND men to SAH for stretches (a year or two) with young kids, and facilitated that choice with family leave policies or tax breaks (while also facilitating affordable day care for parents who want to work).

Anyway. I’m happy with my choice 90% of the time but it’s sucks to hear someone I admire denigrate my choices.

Yeah and I wish single people were paid by the government to take a year off and discover what they want to do with their life.

Pay for your own years of SAHP.

This is the most nonsensical comment. What a ridiculous argument. Go back to bed.

NP. No, it's not. Why should people get paid to stay home for a year or two with kids? What about people who don't have kids? What do they get?

I have two young kids and I agree completely, PP.

I'm the PP you're responding two and I have two young kids as well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who weren't listening the first time - the problem is wage stagnation that has made most families NEED to have two full time working parents in order to afford a home with at least two bedrooms, a working car, etc.

Just think what our society could be like if part time work paid well (thus removing the need for full time day care) or if it wasn't a huge financial risk for a family to live on only one paycheck.

We are sheep. . .

THIS.


I wanted to be a SAHM but economically it was simply not feasible. I had an abortion with the mindset that later when we were more established it could work, at least temporarily. Later didn’t happen in that relationship - I think regret over the abortion, which we both chose but very reluctantly, ruined us - and ultimately I ended up childless after suffering a second trimester miscarriage in a later relationship when I was established in my career and really wasn’t sure how I’d manage to stay home for more than 12 weeks.

Our supports for childbearing in this country are really garbage, and with the increasing pressures of a declining birth rate largely because so many people can’t afford them, hopefully this will finally change. I’d like to see us invest in all kinds of families the way Iceland does - where even becoming a single mother isn’t an obstacle to getting an education and participation in the job market as much as one desires.

I would have loved to be a SAHM, probably for at least 5-10 years. I believe I have the qualities to have been a very good mom. But I also have been very enriched by my education and my career, and in my work I have contributed as greatly to society as good parenting would have done - maybe more.

I just think we need an economy that allows for all the choices to be truly free choices that don’t impose serious limitations on the ability to engage in other aspects of the human experience. Some women or men might want to be home for decades and never work beyond the home or school/community volunteering, others might want to do each part time, others might want to really focus on career. Excellent affordable (government subsidized, low cost or free) childcare would provide for all those choices, and open the door to increasing the quality of childcare across the board in this country. Perhaps parents who stay home should get a carer’s allowance that reflects the true value of this work in our society, and prevents families that choose that option from being penalized financially. And maybe all jobs across the board should not only offer equal pay for equal work, but a mandate on time off/phone and computers off so people are working a humane schedule and not exploited by rampant capitalism. Studies show a marked decrease in longevity of people who work 55+ hours a week - why do we insist on a work culture that celebrates overwork and workaholism?

Maybe someday Americans will make the connection that all of these things are at the root of the sickness of mind and body that is so prevalent in our society. Even so many of the so-called elites, the DCUMs of our society, are suffering the same ills of substance use disorders, other mental health disorders, marital breakdown, chronic illness and early deaths. Wealth doesn’t protect anyone from these things. We really need a fundamental rethink of what makes a successful life.

I’m not holding my breath. More often than not these days when I see what our society has become and is continuing to become, I’m glad not to have brought another soul - especially another female soul - into it.

This is literally the saddest thing I have ever read on here. You got pregnant and would have had to be a working mom….so you had an abortion, even though you wanted to be a mother? That isn’t the governments fault, that is yours. I also got pregnant under less than ideal circumstances and I can tell you from the other side, being a mother is far better than not being a mother. Even if I have to work, like many, many other mothers. Pretty sure my kid would also prefer to exist and have a mom who works….

-1. I feel sad for PP but I understand her reasons for having the abortion and her points about the state of the world are completely valid. People like you and I have taken a huge gamble bringing children into such uncertainty. Is it really better that your child exists if they will face a miserable future? I don’t regret my kids and hope the world will change for the better but we have to be honest with ourselves here.