VMPI-ways to speak out

[Anonymous]

It’s sad that the plan is to regress to a point where kids will be less challenged in math classes than they were in Virginia not just 10 years ago, but over 40 years ago. We will pay a stiff price for all these tortured “equity” initiatives intended to suppress merit just so the feelings of no one in a “marginalized” group never get hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

In the AAP forum thread, someone explained why IB would not be available, and it's also been explained why AP Calculus would be available as an option but could not be met with the existing classwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

In the AAP forum thread, someone explained why IB would not be available, and it's also been explained why AP Calculus would be available as an option but could not be met with the existing classwork.

They were speculating. VDOE hasn’t laid this out yet.

Premature hysteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

Please vote education this November. There are lots more of these kinds of ppans in the works.

Dismantlung TJ was phase one.

Oh, I will. School closures and these overhauls are now priority #1. I'm done with all of this.

These changes are happening in red states too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

Can you just for a second listen to people who are going to really work with the math/science kids? Look at any PhD program in the country. Our kids are not as strong in math as other countries. Part of the reason is that kids from other countries learn math early and practice practice practice. By the time they get to the first year of a physics PhD program, they know how to use math as a tool. Our kids are still learning. Please understand that slowing everyone down is really not a good option for anyone. This is the problem with STEM education in the country. It’s designed by those who know “pedagogy” but not the subject. It’s downright infuriating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

Can you just for a second listen to people who are going to really work with the math/science kids? Look at any PhD program in the country. Our kids are not as strong in math as other countries. Part of the reason is that kids from other countries learn math early and practice practice practice. By the time they get to the first year of a physics PhD program, they know how to use math as a tool. Our kids are still learning. Please understand that slowing everyone down is really not a good option for anyone. This is the problem with STEM education in the country. It’s designed by those who know “pedagogy” but not the subject. It’s downright infuriating.

So with 7 years of college-level math (1 AP + 4 yrs BS + 2 yrs MS) they can’t figure it out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand something ....if you know Democrats are going to lower standards continuously why do you keep voting them into office Virginia???? Creating "equity" is code for lowering standards. This is a fact not an opinion.

But it's not with the new diploma proposal. Instead they are eliminating the weak standard diploma that let schools off the hook for not expecting students (particularly Black, Hispanic, and Special Ed) to take all core subjects for all four years. Certainly it will be a challenge to get some to pass all the classes they need but it will show up in graduation rates if they fail.

They are eliminating the advanced diploma, which has more core class requirements and 3 years of a foreign language.

They are NOT bringing up the standard diploma to require all students to take the foreign language.

One one thing the dem VA dept of education did very recently, in the past 2 years, is to require all higg school students to take sequential electives.

They must take a beginner class, then level 2.

So if a kid is qualified for advanced orchestra as a freshman, they must take the lower level for one year before they can do the level they are qualified to do, in order to fulfill the state requirement of sequential electives.

The same goes in reverse. If you have a kid who just loves choir, but sings like a toad, they can no linger just enjoy singing by taking beginning chorus. It won't fulfill their sequential electives graduation requirements. They cannot just stay in the beginning choir for 4 years doing something they love. Either the teacher has to promote them to something they are unqualified for, or they need to find another elective they might not find as enriching, so they can check off the sequential elective box.

Or

If you have a high school kid with a variety of interests who is exploring where their strengths lie, they can no longer explore a variety of electives.

For example, I was a dabbler in high school. I took a different kind of elective every year and had an enriching experience exploring different things. I did theater, drawing, pottery, typing, choir (same beginning level both years) sewing and some business class. I dabbled and was a better student for having the opportunity to explore different things.

The sequential elective requirement decreed by this VA department of education has eliminated one of the most beneficial and enriching parts of the high school experience.

The VA department of education in recent years has been run by a bunch of anti education idiots.

I'm pretty sure that sequential elective requirement has been around for awhile. Like, over a decade (unless they eliminated/reinstated it and I missed that.) Yeah, the downside is less dabbling. And that's unfortunate, although to be fair, I'd say a bigger problem is that some of us had no opportunity to do electives outside of the arts, and if that wasn't your thing, well... tough. (I think my HS had one math elective but probably 7 different bands, 5 choruses, and 3 orchestras, and tons of other fine arts.)

It's correct that the proposal we've seen thus far of the consolidated diploma wouldn't require the language classes like the advanced diploma does, but it does require 4 years of all core classes (which the standard diploma doesn't require currently.) Importantly, the language classes would still be *available* to all students who want to do it (unlike the VMPI proposal, which would eliminate some of the math classes our kids need.)

Sequential electives are new for VA. I think it started with class of 2022 or 23

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you can logically see a 'path' to calc that doesn't involve summer school or compressing the HS curriculum in what VMPI has presented thus far, then by all means, tell us what we're missing here.

From a link upthread(equationsnow), not sure if this is explicitly reference by VMPI,
Design junior and senior year BRANCH
courses, including an AP mathematics course
that seniors can take without accelerating
through the curriculum, as well as junior and
senior year STEM math courses that prepare
students for calculus in high school or college.

More importantly to present discussion-
Design ninth and 10th grade courses that
prioritize content important for BRANCH
pathways, while shifting more technical STEMapplicable content into junior and senior year
STEM courses.
In other words algebra 2 is 11th grade.

After algebra 2 you still need a year of precalc and trig before calc. If you take Algebra 2 in 11th, when are you supposed to take the precalc/trig such that you still take a year of calc in HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

Can you just for a second listen to people who are going to really work with the math/science kids? Look at any PhD program in the country. Our kids are not as strong in math as other countries. Part of the reason is that kids from other countries learn math early and practice practice practice. By the time they get to the first year of a physics PhD program, they know how to use math as a tool. Our kids are still learning. Please understand that slowing everyone down is really not a good option for anyone. This is the problem with STEM education in the country. It’s designed by those who know “pedagogy” but not the subject. It’s downright infuriating.

So with 7 years of college-level math (1 AP + 4 yrs BS + 2 yrs MS) they can’t figure it out?

You can be dismissive if you want. But you have to build year after year, going back over concepts and deepening understanding. And we need to build from algebra principles as soon as kids are ready. For some it’s as early as 7th grade. You shape your brain as you grow around algebra. It will the be as obvious to you as arithmetic. That’s what we are going for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

In the AAP forum thread, someone explained why IB would not be available, and it's also been explained why AP Calculus would be available as an option but could not be met with the existing classwork.

They were speculating. VDOE hasn’t laid this out yet.

Premature hysteria.

You don't stop terrible, idiotic and destructive proposals by waiting until they hit execute.

You cut them off and block them before their idiocy becomes reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

In the AAP forum thread, someone explained why IB would not be available, and it's also been explained why AP Calculus would be available as an option but could not be met with the existing classwork.

They were speculating. VDOE hasn’t laid this out yet.

Premature hysteria.

You don't stop terrible, idiotic and destructive proposals by waiting until they hit execute.

You cut them off and block them before their idiocy becomes reality.

Yes, it’s much better to freak TF out before hearing the actual plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

Can you just for a second listen to people who are going to really work with the math/science kids? Look at any PhD program in the country. Our kids are not as strong in math as other countries. Part of the reason is that kids from other countries learn math early and practice practice practice. By the time they get to the first year of a physics PhD program, they know how to use math as a tool. Our kids are still learning. Please understand that slowing everyone down is really not a good option for anyone. This is the problem with STEM education in the country. It’s designed by those who know “pedagogy” but not the subject. It’s downright infuriating.

So with 7 years of college-level math (1 AP + 4 yrs BS + 2 yrs MS) they can’t figure it out?

You can be dismissive if you want. But you have to build year after year, going back over concepts and deepening understanding. And we need to build from algebra principles as soon as kids are ready. For some it’s as early as 7th grade. You shape your brain as you grow around algebra. It will the be as obvious to you as arithmetic. That’s what we are going for.

So 8 years is that magic number to master it? 9?

Maybe our kids are struggling because their foundational skills aren’t there. Maybe the “how” they are learning is important.

[Anonymous]

I have reached out to elected officials and even a school principal. None of them seem to know anything about it beyond a bullet point or two provided by the VA DOE and it's all **abstract talking points.**

They call for detracking all the way through elementary school. In practical terms, that may mean:
--No AAP
--No honors/advanced math in elementary or middle school.
--This would be statewide, but the IB diploma is set by international standards. The switch to this pacing would make it difficult to get the IB diploma.
--Fewer chances for advanced math and science classes. Students interested in STEM would hit fewer higher level classes and thus be less competitive to certain colleges.
--This also translates into fewer opportunities for AP courses at the high school level. That is real money in real college level courses that will hit college students and their families pocketbooks.
--For teachers, they talk about "heterogenous classrooms," which translates into them expecting miracles out of teachers so they they teach to all levels in one room. That won't happen.

On one of the webinars, a state employee who was a representative of the VMPI said well - college level courses should stay in college. No a fan of the AP level coursework. Again... that is a huge money saver for many families.

I think this program has some unintended consequences. I would love to be wrong, but I don't think people have any idea what is coming at them and it will change the system in some pretty profound ways.

I believe in public education and think they should look for more ways to help students get and stay interested in math. But that shouldn't start by eliminating advancement opportunities.

I encourage you to reach out to your school board members and your elected officials (more than once if you have to) to make sure they become educated. I spoke to my state Senator yesterday and he plans to reach out to the VMPI for clarity (practical implications -- not abstract jargon), but we need all of the state senators and delegates and school board members to AT LEAST UNDERSTAND the implications of what it will mean in practical terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have reached out to elected officials and even a school principal. None of them seem to know anything about it beyond a bullet point or two provided by the VA DOE and it's all **abstract talking points.**

They call for detracking all the way through elementary school. In practical terms, that may mean:
--No AAP
--No honors/advanced math in elementary or middle school.
--This would be statewide, but the IB diploma is set by international standards. The switch to this pacing would make it difficult to get the IB diploma.
--Fewer chances for advanced math and science classes. Students interested in STEM would hit fewer higher level classes and thus be less competitive to certain colleges.
--This also translates into fewer opportunities for AP courses at the high school level. That is real money in real college level courses that will hit college students and their families pocketbooks.
--For teachers, they talk about "heterogenous classrooms," which translates into them expecting miracles out of teachers so they they teach to all levels in one room. That won't happen.

On one of the webinars, a state employee who was a representative of the VMPI said well - college level courses should stay in college. No a fan of the AP level coursework. Again... that is a huge money saver for many families.

I think this program has some unintended consequences. I would love to be wrong, but I don't think people have any idea what is coming at them and it will change the system in some pretty profound ways.

I believe in public education and think they should look for more ways to help students get and stay interested in math. But that shouldn't start by eliminating advancement opportunities.

I encourage you to reach out to your school board members and your elected officials (more than once if you have to) to make sure they become educated. I spoke to my state Senator yesterday and he plans to reach out to the VMPI for clarity (practical implications -- not abstract jargon), but we need all of the state senators and delegates and school board members to AT LEAST UNDERSTAND the implications of what it will mean in practical terms.

You are speculating about IB.

Tuesday, April 27, 2021 - Essential Concepts in Grades 8 - 10
Tuesday, May 25, 2021 - Advanced Pathways in Grades 11 - 12

https://youtube.com/channel/UCrbxl9wHScrWKWIEoUWNIfQ