VMPI-ways to speak out

[Anonymous]

Can we cut down to just one thread? It’s annoying to have three parallel threads.

How about we keep the “VA schools” thread since it’s a VA school thing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

Can you just for a second listen to people who are going to really work with the math/science kids? Look at any PhD program in the country. Our kids are not as strong in math as other countries. Part of the reason is that kids from other countries learn math early and practice practice practice. By the time they get to the first year of a physics PhD program, they know how to use math as a tool. Our kids are still learning. Please understand that slowing everyone down is really not a good option for anyone. This is the problem with STEM education in the country. It’s designed by those who know “pedagogy” but not the subject. It’s downright infuriating.

So with 7 years of college-level math (1 AP + 4 yrs BS + 2 yrs MS) they can’t figure it out?

You can be dismissive if you want. But you have to build year after year, going back over concepts and deepening understanding. And we need to build from algebra principles as soon as kids are ready. For some it’s as early as 7th grade. You shape your brain as you grow around algebra. It will the be as obvious to you as arithmetic. That’s what we are going for.

So 8 years is that magic number to master it? 9?

Maybe our kids are struggling because their foundational skills aren’t there. Maybe the “how” they are learning is important.

Again, you can dismiss those who use these skills for a living. I don't know what the right number of years is for every kid. I do think that kids that can access the material early, should. And trying to force math kids to work at the level of their peers is just insanity - it will bore then and they won't get "foundational skill" or whatever you are imagining. As far as foundational skills goes - the way we teach younger grades sucks. Success is those classes is based on speed and arithmetic skills which is just not what drives whether someone will be better at higher math. Give those kids who can handle it exposure early and often to complex math concepts. Its what other countries do - asian countries for sure. But also the europeans. If kids can't access those skills, thats totally fine. How many math/science kids at the peak of their disciplines do we really need? We need a math-informed populace. But only some are going to want to go any further, and that is absolutely fine. Great, even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy to me. I work to help R&D companies bring talented STEM candidates into their operations. They have a hard time finding qualified candidates many times (very specific biotech fields). US students are already struggling to compete so WHY do this?

Crushed to see that VA is implementing the Cliff's Notes version of math in our public schools.

AP calculus & IB are cliffs notes?

Not giving proper attention and coverage of foundational materials is Cliff's Notes. Cutting and pasting Algebra/Geometry topics into random formats is Cliff's Notes. Rushing kids through years 7-10 of single level, hodge-podge math is Cliff's Notes, and poor planning. It is not preparing kids for AP Calculus.

The whole point is to not rush through. You are speculating.

Can you just for a second listen to people who are going to really work with the math/science kids? Look at any PhD program in the country. Our kids are not as strong in math as other countries. Part of the reason is that kids from other countries learn math early and practice practice practice. By the time they get to the first year of a physics PhD program, they know how to use math as a tool. Our kids are still learning. Please understand that slowing everyone down is really not a good option for anyone. This is the problem with STEM education in the country. It’s designed by those who know “pedagogy” but not the subject. It’s downright infuriating.

So with 7 years of college-level math (1 AP + 4 yrs BS + 2 yrs MS) they can’t figure it out?

You can be dismissive if you want. But you have to build year after year, going back over concepts and deepening understanding. And we need to build from algebra principles as soon as kids are ready. For some it’s as early as 7th grade. You shape your brain as you grow around algebra. It will the be as obvious to you as arithmetic. That’s what we are going for.

So 8 years is that magic number to master it? 9?

Maybe our kids are struggling because their foundational skills aren’t there. Maybe the “how” they are learning is important.

Again, you can dismiss those who use these skills for a living. I don't know what the right number of years is for every kid. I do think that kids that can access the material early, should. And trying to force math kids to work at the level of their peers is just insanity - it will bore then and they won't get "foundational skill" or whatever you are imagining. As far as foundational skills goes - the way we teach younger grades sucks. Success is those classes is based on speed and arithmetic skills which is just not what drives whether someone will be better at higher math. Give those kids who can handle it exposure early and often to complex math concepts. Its what other countries do - asian countries for sure. But also the europeans. If kids can't access those skills, thats totally fine. How many math/science kids at the peak of their disciplines do we really need? We need a math-informed populace. But only some are going to want to go any further, and that is absolutely fine. Great, even.

I think it is great to have the new pathways proposed as AN option. There's plenty of good info on the benefit of alternative pathways.

It's also important to have the higher level pathways as an option. Put Beast Academy in as the curriculum for advanced math from 2nd on, with ways to get onto or off of the advanced track later if you are so concerned about permanent tracking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we cut down to just one thread? It’s annoying to have three parallel threads.

How about we keep the “VA schools” thread since it’s a VA school thing?

VA schools is supposed to be all but FCPS. Normally i don't read that board at all since we're FCPS. I don't see an issue with multiple threads. If you only want to comment on one, pick that one.

[Anonymous]

Thought on a way to speak out that may not have been tried yet:

Submit a letter to the editor - WaPo, Northern Virginia Magazine, whatever you can find. Get it out there.

[Anonymous]

Curious - who actually supports this?

Parents: obviously not.
Students: their opinion is never considered anyway
Teachers: ??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s sad that the plan is to regress to a point where kids will be less challenged in math classes than they were in Virginia not just 10 years ago, but over 40 years ago. We will pay a stiff price for all these tortured “equity” initiatives intended to suppress merit just so the feelings of no one in a “marginalized” group never get hurt.

I doubt the marginalized group is advocating for a dumbing down of our state education system.

This is designed to mKe the people on top feel better about themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we cut down to just one thread? It’s annoying to have three parallel threads.

How about we keep the “VA schools” thread since it’s a VA school thing?

Um, don't click.

You don't have to read every single thread


Fcps people don't go to the VA schools forum any more.

Many of us don't go to the cesspool that is recent topics.

We go straight to the fcps or AAP forums only.

If you don't want to discuss or read a topic, just don't click on the thread. Don't try to be the hall monitor for everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious - who actually supports this?

Parents: obviously not.
Students: their opinion is never considered anyway
Teachers: ??

I can only speak to my math teacher spouse who does not support. Spouse already thinks it’s an issue as is with not being able to move on from a topic until the bottom of the class understands it in the current set up. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have one grade level with some kids ready to take Algebra in 7th, some in 8th and some in 9th all in one class.

[Anonymous]

My idea on how to speak out was to contact the gubernatorial candidates for their thoughts since it is a state issue & an election is coming up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious - who actually supports this?

Parents: obviously not.
Students: their opinion is never considered anyway
Teachers: ??

Atif Qarni and the African American Superintendent's Advisory Council. From the latter's equity recommendations:

* Revision of the Standards of Accreditation to address opportunity gaps reflected in available course options, and to provide equal emphasis on workforce readiness in accrediting schools;

(https://doe.virginia.gov/news/news_releases/2021/3-18-21-aasac-recommendations.docx)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious - who actually supports this?

Parents: obviously not.
Students: their opinion is never considered anyway
Teachers: ??

Extreme left politicians.

Tye person appointed to run the VA dept of education was appointed specifically to do things like dismantle TJ and VA advanced academics, and to restructure education in Virginia around the mantle of "equity"

However, I bet the parents this is supposed to serve do not want VA math and gifted education dumbed down either. They like all parents want a top noth, world class education for their kids that helps them to reach their highest potential, not dumbed down lowere standards with no push for success, just so politicians and politically appointed educators who have hardly seen the inside of the classroom can pat themselves on the back claim self righteous benevolence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious - who actually supports this?

Parents: obviously not.
Students: their opinion is never considered anyway
Teachers: ??

Every teacher I have seen commenting on these proposals, and all the ones I've talked to personally have said that completely heterogeneous classrooms are not realistic. The higher kids, and probably the lowest kids, will be ignored

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we cut down to just one thread? It’s annoying to have three parallel threads.

How about we keep the “VA schools” thread since it’s a VA school thing?

Um, don't click.

You don't have to read every single thread


Fcps people don't go to the VA schools forum any more.

Many of us don't go to the cesspool that is recent topics.

We go straight to the fcps or AAP forums only.

If you don't want to discuss or read a topic, just don't click on the thread. Don't try to be the hall monitor for everyone else.

It's annoying to have the same conversation in THREE locations. How about just in AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we cut down to just one thread? It’s annoying to have three parallel threads.

How about we keep the “VA schools” thread since it’s a VA school thing?

Um, don't click.

You don't have to read every single thread


Fcps people don't go to the VA schools forum any more.

Many of us don't go to the cesspool that is recent topics.

We go straight to the fcps or AAP forums only.

If you don't want to discuss or read a topic, just don't click on the thread. Don't try to be the hall monitor for everyone else.

It's annoying to have the same conversation in THREE locations. How about just in AAP?

Please stop trying to suppress this VMPI from being talked about. Do you have a hidden (not so) agenda?