Elite universities, Ivy Plus/Equivalents...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

Never said that I thought she could get in. Clearly we are outsiders to the Ivy world, along with 99% of the country and that’s fine with us. Having toured a few Ivies pre-Covid, none of the tours ever said it was not competitive. Quite the opposite, as some of the tour guides listed off the accomplishments of their roommates and friends and talked about the pressure they were under. All the schools at the top are competitive, but we saw a lot of ugly behavior in high school with people stepping on each other to get a leg up in the race to Ivies and want another environment.

That may say more about your secondary school than it does about the Ivies. You seem to be conflating selectivity and accomplishments with a cut-throat environment at the schools. At many of the Ivies, getting in is the hardest part, but the environment for students at the schools is quite collegial.

“Quite collegial” is a nice way of saying “easy as hell.” Everyone knows Harvard engages in massive grade inflation.

Really? Please tell us how "everyone" knows that.

Here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/12/20/why-grade-inflation-even-at-harvard-is-a-big-problem/

And if you want a more recent article, here’s one from 2020: https://harvardpolitics.com/make-harvard-grade-again/

The biggest question I have is: How did you not know?

Grade inflation isn't unique to Harvard. There is grade inflation over time at almost every college and university in the country, and it is most acute at the most selective and expensive institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

For the millionth time: Dartmouth is a university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_College

If you are uninformed about facts how can your opinion be informed?

Everyone knows Dartmouth is a "university". The reality though, is that it's abysmal in research, weak in hard sciences and thus equivalent to LAC. Do you know what a metaphor is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

The minds of the wealthy and powerful, you say? Ah, yes, it would totally stand to reason that the wealthy and powerful would look down on... themselves?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/931379.page

Generationally wealthy, yes. Not self-made as that list purports to be. The types that you would never know existed, because you are a lowly middle-class 9-5 peon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

No one thinks that way except Dartmouth grads, lmao.

Go to a New England country club and ask which college is more "prestigious", Dartmouth or U. Chicago/Johns Hopkins.

U. Chicago was essentially a commuter school for the longest time. Hopkins is a medical school that happens to have an English department. They won't even know what a Northwestern is, would consider it akin to a state school.

I'm not saying the students at U. Chicago and Hopkins aren't brighter than Dartmouth - they probably are. Nor am I saying grad schools would prefer Dartmouth students over U. Chicago or Hopkins - they probably wouldn't.

But there's a difference between prestige and academics. Prestige is a very nebulous concept based on elite historical connections, not on merit or even academics.

There's a reason some would consider a school like UVa more prestigious than Berkeley or Michigan despite being far worse academically...One was founded by a founding father and was regularly attended by the wealthy Southern elites, while the latter two are massive, technical-focused universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

The minds of the wealthy and powerful, you say? Ah, yes, it would totally stand to reason that the wealthy and powerful would look down on... themselves?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/931379.page

Generationally wealthy, yes. Not self-made as that list purports to be. The types that you would never know existed, because you are a lowly middle-class 9-5 peon.

I let out an actual chuckle at this comment. Ivy Leaguers can't honestly think that saying stuff like this makes them seem enviable in any way, shape, or form? How embarrassing for you.

And for the record, that list includes generational wealth so you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

No one thinks that way except Dartmouth grads, lmao.

Go to a New England country club and ask which college is more "prestigious", Dartmouth or U. Chicago/Johns Hopkins.

U. Chicago was essentially a commuter school for the longest time. Hopkins is a medical school that happens to have an English department. They won't even know what a Northwestern is, would consider it akin to a state school.

I'm not saying the students at U. Chicago and Hopkins aren't brighter than Dartmouth - they probably are. Nor am I saying grad schools would prefer Dartmouth students over U. Chicago or Hopkins - they probably wouldn't.

But there's a difference between prestige and academics. Prestige is a very nebulous concept based on elite historical connections, not on merit or even academics.

There's a reason some would consider a school like UVa more prestigious than Berkeley or Michigan despite being far worse academically...One was founded by a founding father and was regularly attended by the wealthy Southern elites, while the latter two are massive, technical-focused universities.

You truly have no idea what you're talking about and it's clear you've never been anywhere even remotely near a "New England country club." This comment reeks of misguided striver nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

The minds of the wealthy and powerful, you say? Ah, yes, it would totally stand to reason that the wealthy and powerful would look down on... themselves?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/931379.page

Generationally wealthy, yes. Not self-made as that list purports to be. The types that you would never know existed, because you are a lowly middle-class 9-5 peon.

Aw, poor Dartmouth Man is sad that his irrelevant little school was never as prestigious as he thought it was. Looks like all that huffing and puffing and sneering at the lowly state schools folks was all for naught, and now he has to resort to trolling online forums to try to convince anyone, absolutely anyone, that his school actually matters! Keep deluding yourself, it's quite the show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Go to a New England country club and ask which college is more "prestigious", Dartmouth or U. Chicago/Johns Hopkins.

U. Chicago was essentially a commuter school for the longest time. i think you are confusing this with U-Ill-Chicago

Hopkins is a medical school that happens to have an English department. uh, have you heard of the international relations program at JHU to name one?

They won't even know what a Northwestern is, would consider it akin to a state school. then they are illinformed idiots

I'm not saying the students at U. Chicago and Hopkins aren't brighter than Dartmouth - they probably are. Nor am I saying grad schools would prefer Dartmouth students over U. Chicago or Hopkins - they probably wouldn't.

But there's a difference between prestige and academics. Prestige is a very nebulous concept based on elite historical connections, not on merit or even academics.

There's a reason some would consider a school like UVa more prestigious than Berkeley or Michigan only VA residents on this board despite being far worse academically...One was founded by a founding father and was regularly attended by the wealthy Southern elites, while the latter two are massive, technical-focused universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Ivy League has been around for almost 100 years. The Big Three, a term used for HYP, goes back further. Their prestige takes a long time to build. They don't need US News. US News needs the Ivy League to sell its magazine. MIT and Stanford are also widely respected as elite academic institutions. The rest are just good schools. They don't have the history and the prestige as those 10 schools.

Bingo. Strivers are clueless. It's sad when their kids get into one of their two tier schools and then they realize nobody cares, so they desperately trying to hype up how great their kid's tier two is. Unless they're at HYPSM or an Ivy, nobody cares. Nobody is impressed by a NORTHWESTERN or EMORY or CHICAGO resume. They're fine schools but no parent is going to pester you about 'how'd you do it,' you know. People just don't care and none of your hot air and forum posting is going to convince people otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Oooh, fun thread. A little humorous to see all this talk about generational wealth and board members and whatnot without realizing they’re actually helping to make OP’s point..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/31/wealth-x-the-20-american-universities-that-produce-the-richest-grads.html

There is a lot of representation from the Ivy League at the top for sure, but equal representation of schools from OP’s list, with a couple other high performers like NYU and USC. I’m guessing the people making all these wild claims about the Ivies have not set foot in a board room or know actual people with old money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Ivy League has been around for almost 100 years. The Big Three, a term used for HYP, goes back further. Their prestige takes a long time to build. They don't need US News. US News needs the Ivy League to sell its magazine. MIT and Stanford are also widely respected as elite academic institutions. The rest are just good schools. They don't have the history and the prestige as those 10 schools.

Bingo. Strivers are clueless. It's sad when their kids get into one of their two tier schools and then they realize nobody cares, so they desperately trying to hype up how great their kid's tier two is. Unless they're at HYPSM or an Ivy, nobody cares. Nobody is impressed by a NORTHWESTERN or EMORY or CHICAGO resume. They're fine schools but no parent is going to pester you about 'how'd you do it,' you know. People just don't care and none of your hot air and forum posting is going to convince people otherwise.

Why're you bringing Emory into this conversation? And again, this is just your own wishful imagination. I'm sorry these schools didn't accept your kid, and that Brown or Dartmouth or Penn (or Penn State, was it?) or wherever your kid ended up at had significantly less cachet than you thought. Must be a rough life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

They might be as "good", but they are certainly not as prestigious.

Even a "Ivy" like Dartmouth, which is in reality is an above-average LAC, would be more prestigious in the minds of the wealthy and powerful than say, JHU or Chicago. Entirely due to its association with the Ivy League and schools like Harvard and Princeton. Sure, upper-middle-class educated folks might think otherwise, but they are middle-managers, not board room members.

For the millionth time: Dartmouth is a university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_College

If you are uninformed about facts how can your opinion be informed?

Everyone knows Dartmouth is a "university". The reality though, is that it's abysmal in research, weak in hard sciences and thus equivalent to LAC. Do you know what a metaphor is?

Yes, I know what a metaphor is. I am not sure you do. From dictionary.com: "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable."

So the phrase "in reality is an above-average LAC" appears specifically designed to exclude interpretation as a metaphor.

"in reality".

It's right there.

[Anonymous]

Are some of you this nasty about schools in real life? I feel sorry for you if you really think"HYPS is the only school worth attending" I went to Harvard, by the way, and the worst thing about having attended is that there is a subset of insufferably arrogant people who truly believe they are superior in all ways to others. The reality is it's luck at this point who gets admitted, not pure merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are some of you this nasty about schools in real life? I feel sorry for you if you really think"HYPS is the only school worth attending" I went to Harvard, by the way, and the worst thing about having attended is that there is a subset of insufferably arrogant people who truly believe they are superior in all ways to others. The reality is it's luck at this point who gets admitted, not pure merit.

Of course, you went to Harvard. So did half of DCUM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are some of you this nasty about schools in real life? I feel sorry for you if you really think"HYPS is the only school worth attending" I went to Harvard, by the way, and the worst thing about having attended is that there is a subset of insufferably arrogant people who truly believe they are superior in all ways to others. The reality is it's luck at this point who gets admitted, not pure merit.

There is a big difference between someone believing that certain schools are not as prestigious (or even don't provide as good of an education) as HYPS and that person believing that those other schools are not "worth attending."