Zoo Lights Shooting and Violence

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatincentive does anyone have to actually pay for a metro card? That’s an odd way to govern a city. Broken windows theory ....

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on the topic of fare evasion. Previously, this was a criminal activity, which meant that you could go to jail and earn criminal record for doing it. The DC Council decriminalized it. That does not mean that fare evasion is legal, but rather that it is now a civil violation punishable by a $50 fine. So, to answer your question, the incentive to pay for a metro card is to avoid a $50 fine. It is now similar to a parking violation. If you park in a metered space but don't pay for parking, you do not face the possibility of going to jail. Rather, you will likely be ticketed and fined. Notice that nobody posts questions in this forum asking about the incentive for paying for parking.

The problem is that a parking ticket is written to a (usually) registered vehicle which one can’t re-register is the parking ticket is unpaid for a period of time. If a Metro cop asks a fare jumper for an ID to write a ticket, the perp can refuse. And even if he or she complied, what is the recourse or sanction if the fare evasion ticket is unpaid?

[Anonymous]

Let's be honest.....the 'fine' for fare evasion is bullshit, and is designed for nothing other than as a talking point as a rebuttal to cynics/critics who say that the city has legalized fare evasion. Sure, fare evasion has been 'decriminalized' and there are 'fines' for fare evasion, but we all know there is virtually ZERO enforcement. It basically means fare evasion has been legalized with a thinly veiled attempt to disguise it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest.....the 'fine' for fare evasion is bullshit, and is designed for nothing other than as a talking point as a rebuttal to cynics/critics who say that the city has legalized fare evasion. Sure, fare evasion has been 'decriminalized' and there are 'fines' for fare evasion, but we all know there is virtually ZERO enforcement. It basically means fare evasion has been legalized with a thinly veiled attempt to disguise it.

Somewhat OT, but this is why I am opposed to ‘decriminalizing’ border crossing! Same deal. Makes it easier to cross the border illegally.

Fare evasion is theft and should be considered a crime. Who thinks it’s a good idea to let that slide?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest.....the 'fine' for fare evasion is bullshit, and is designed for nothing other than as a talking point as a rebuttal to cynics/critics who say that the city has legalized fare evasion. Sure, fare evasion has been 'decriminalized' and there are 'fines' for fare evasion, but we all know there is virtually ZERO enforcement. It basically means fare evasion has been legalized with a thinly veiled attempt to disguise it.

Somewhat OT, but this is why I am opposed to ‘decriminalizing’ border crossing! Same deal. Makes it easier to cross the border illegally.

Fare evasion is theft and should be considered a crime. Who thinks it’s a good idea to let that slide?

Fare evasion is no longer a crime in DC. That was the whole point of decriminalizing it. How many of you who want to jail youth for evading a fare also complain about the efficiency of DC parking enforcement and speed cameras? How about we criminalize those violations as well? Are you ready to spend 30 days in jail for going 10 miles over the speed limit?

[Anonymous]

I would suggest the best way to do it would be to issue zoo lights tickets electronically and keep it free if possible. But you still have to have "tickets" and present them at entrance. Then the level of planning would probably not be worth it to the roving gangs of youth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest the best way to do it would be to issue zoo lights tickets electronically and keep it free if possible. But you still have to have "tickets" and present them at entrance. Then the level of planning would probably not be worth it to the roving gangs of youth.

This is a good idea.

Frankly, the issues at Zoo Lights sounds like a social media-organized gathering gone wrong. Watching an 12 year-old kid punching the proprietor of the Fro-Yo shop on Twitter is just heart breaking: the kid clearly has no healthy role models and a small biz owner in his 50s doesn’t deserve to have teens destroy his livelihood.

The Mayor should be shamed by this. It’s ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest.....the 'fine' for fare evasion is bullshit, and is designed for nothing other than as a talking point as a rebuttal to cynics/critics who say that the city has legalized fare evasion. Sure, fare evasion has been 'decriminalized' and there are 'fines' for fare evasion, but we all know there is virtually ZERO enforcement. It basically means fare evasion has been legalized with a thinly veiled attempt to disguise it.

Somewhat OT, but this is why I am opposed to ‘decriminalizing’ border crossing! Same deal. Makes it easier to cross the border illegally.

Fare evasion is theft and should be considered a crime. Who thinks it’s a good idea to let that slide?

Fare evasion is no longer a crime in DC. That was the whole point of decriminalizing it. How many of you who want to jail youth for evading a fare also complain about the efficiency of DC parking enforcement and speed cameras? How about we criminalize those violations as well? Are you ready to spend 30 days in jail for going 10 miles over the speed limit?

False equivalence. At least for speeding and parking violations we can tie a name, address, and real consequences to not paying the fine. Don't pay? Then you can't renew your driver's license and car registration. What do you do when a minor steals a fare and has no form of identification and no money on them? How exactly do you hand out a fine when they have no ID and no money on them to pay on the spot? Liberals would be outraged if minors who stole care were detained until their parents could verify their home address info and would be outraged if parents had their wages garnished until fines were paid.

Quit bullshitting us. We all know fare evasion has basically been legalized because the fines are essentially unenforceable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest the best way to do it would be to issue zoo lights tickets electronically and keep it free if possible. But you still have to have "tickets" and present them at entrance. Then the level of planning would probably not be worth it to the roving gangs of youth.

This is a good idea.

Frankly, the issues at Zoo Lights sounds like a social media-organized gathering gone wrong. Watching an 12 year-old kid punching the proprietor of the Fro-Yo shop on Twitter is just heart breaking: the kid clearly has no healthy role models and a small biz owner in his 50s doesn’t deserve to have teens destroy his livelihood.

The Mayor should be shamed by this. It’s ridiculous.

Actually it was more than one youth.

[Anonymous]

I bet if fare evasion was enforced it would allow dc police to search for weapons , run their rap sheet and pull them off the street. It would be a great way to prevent these criminals from freely roaming the streets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck happened? The Post story is unclear. Fireworks we're heard (inside the zoo? Outside the zoo?) and then the fighting was outside the zoo? The shooting was outside the zoo?

They closed Conn Ave because of the people streaming out of the zoo?

Crazy. And aggravating. The zoo has been trying to increase security and close itself off from the neighborhood, and wants increased fencing. So aggravating that people likely not from the neighborhood are creating the ammunition for those m measures to go through.

Op here

My thoughts exactly. I bet airport security goes up ASAP. We live 3 blocks from the zoo. This is incredibly scary that not even a family event at the zoo is safe in DC. The Mayor needs to get her act together.

This is it. You guys need to vote her out, she's terrible and has done NOTHING for this city. We really wanted to stay in the city after we had kids, but once we got to the point where they wanted to go play outside without us, it didn't seem so realistic anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest the best way to do it would be to issue zoo lights tickets electronically and keep it free if possible. But you still have to have "tickets" and present them at entrance. Then the level of planning would probably not be worth it to the roving gangs of youth.

This is a good idea.

Frankly, the issues at Zoo Lights sounds like a social media-organized gathering gone wrong. Watching an 12 year-old kid punching the proprietor of the Fro-Yo shop on Twitter is just heart breaking: the kid clearly has no healthy role models and a small biz owner in his 50s doesn’t deserve to have teens destroy his livelihood.

The Mayor should be shamed by this. It’s ridiculous.

But then some social justice warriors would claim that it discriminates against those who lack access to the internet and a printer or phone.

[Anonymous]

How to end the connection between events at the zoo and this out of control youth predator segment? We have to make it unattractive or punitive for them to hang out at what is supposed to be a family friendly venue focused on species conservation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who made the remark last night on this thread about "people not from this neighborhood." I only meant to point out the implicit classicism/racism in some of the comments about the shooting. I wasn't endorsing violence. It's terrible that this happened at the Zoo, just as it's terrible when it happens in other areas of the city All.The.Time. It's also terrible that the racism on this thread has only gotten worse and more blatant.

Thank you for this. I"m the person that made the "people not from this neighborhood" quote, and first I'd like to apologize for it, and thank god for anonymity. I often type more quickly and more abbreviated than what I originally intended. Obviously, not from this neighborhood is dog whistle for NIMBY-ism and racism, and that was not remotely the intent.

The phrase was highlighted in my original post, however, the point I was trying to make was actually not about the perpetrators. I was looking beyond this specific incident to the possible ramifications of the incident. I was in no way talking about the specific incident or decrying the incident itself being the cause of people not from here. I was predicting that the ZOO would use this incident to push through some measures they've been advocating for a couple of years. For example, I used to be able to walk through the zoo starting as early as 6 am and lasting into the evening, and a few years ago the Zoo, citing "safety" shortened the hours the zoo was open. Only a very few people took advantage of the open grounds of the zoo at 6 am, and it was a fun place to run in the neighborhood. The zoo wants more permanent fencing and more fewer entry points, with tighter controls. I'll admit, that does make some sense during high traffic times like Zoo lights and Easter. But for the most part, it really only serves as building more walls between the neighborhood and the Zoo. Unlike the majority of the Smithsonian, the Zoo is BOTH a neighborhood AND a national resource.

So, I was aggravated last night that the Zoo would likely take the events of last night and use them to further impose further restrictions that don't actually help prevent things like last night from happening, but that do affect the way the Zoo interacts with neighbors.

I don't know what the solution is. I wish Bowser would speak out more about violence and crime. I know the city is safer than it has been, but I think people from all over should be able to go to the Zoo and have a fun family night.

At the same time, I have a teenager. I'd like it if my teenager could have some freedom and go places with friends. I like that Zoo lights is free and I think the City needs more places where teenagers can hang out and be teens - more events, more spaces, more fun activities. But not teenagers with guns, or not teens that fight, but just more engaging spaces for teens to be teens - safely and legally.

Thanks PP. I'm the PP who called out that phrase last night. Your contribution is far more thoughtful and considerate than my snide intervention (and this thread as a whole) deserves. I was reacting to something that wasn't your intention, this sense that some well-off homeowners (including & esp in MoCo where I now live) believe that they're entitled to a kind of gated community existence.

Fwiw I lived a few blocks from the zoo during my first few years in DC, and for the past 15 years I've been a FONZ member and such a frequent visitor that I could give tours. The zoo is one of my teenager's favorite places in the world, so while I don't have any better solutions either, I totally endorse your wish that it remains a safe place, accessible to all who respect its mission. And separately I'm very sorry for sending this thread toward a crazy unproductive direction.

[Anonymous]

My daughter was there with family friends that evening. She said there were teens everywhere acting like idiots. Some crossed in front a turning van. The van stopped, and the teens were beating on the windows.

unbelievable

[Anonymous]

Wow, this thread scares me to read the last few pages about fate evasion. Noticed that it had grown quite a bit and popped in to see what new comments were, haven’t read how we got here but read the last few pages and, I am nervous.

I know a man who got a ticket for fare jumping. He is early 50’s, lived in DC all his life, works in the service industry and has no car so he rides a bike when weather permits or takes the metro otherwise. He could not afford the fare to work. He runs out of money days before his next paycheck. He would not prefer to jump gate then to lay the few dollars to ride.