Danny Masterson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to read this whole thread so am not sure if this has been discussed—have you read his wife’s life story? Oh my goodness — I wonder if her childhood set her up to not be a good judge of character. How can one person have this much drama around them?

Bijou’s half-sister McKenzie Phillips accused their father of incest. John Phillips was long dead by then. The rest of the family responded by cutting her off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a millennial who loved that 70s show, it’s hard to believe that such a beloved character could be such a creep. I 100% believe his victims. No one should get away with awful crimes, but it does suck to be the one person finally caught and to some extent, made an example of. I think we’re so used to celebrities getting away with things based on accusations being unfathomable based on their tv/film personas. If he hadn’t portrayed the lovable cynic on a tv show, I wouldn’t differentiate him from any other rapist.

Oh my, no. You are exactly the person he depended on to excuse him because he was famous. Finally caught? Made an example of? He raped people. You should be lamenting the people whose fame shielded them, not complaining he was unfairly treated because he was famous. Made an example of? He raped people.

My only point was that he was not the first. They all should be punished, he shouldn’t be the first. But he is and that’s shocking, most of all to him.

I just wouldn't even evaluate it this way. So few rapes are even prosecuted, but less actually convicted. It's good he was prosecuted and that he will be "off the streets" as they say. I hope the extra media attention to this case makes it less likely he gets easily paroled quickly and makes people more aware of what he's capable of.

If you are concerned about helping survivors of other sexual assaults, I highly recommend donating money to or getting otherwise involved with your local rape crisis center. These are organizations that work every day to make sure that someone like Danny Masterson is not "the first" and that survivors get the help they need. I think working with an organization like this might also help you to realize that this issue is so much larger than one person or one trial -- we live in a culture that facilitates and condones this abuse by empowering and protecting some at the expense of many others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ICYMI: Sharon Osborne recently said Ashton Kutcher was the rudest celeb she’s ever met. She seems to have met him when he was younger.

I think the only reason both Ashton and Mila wrote letters on behalf of Masterson was because he has something on Kutcher. Why else would they write letters when it’s obvious they will be openly criticized for standing by a rapist?

I’ve also met Ashton Kutcher and he was incredibly nice.

Was he young or older when you met him?

Sharon called him a rude little boy. I could see Kutcher and Masterson being high on fame as young adults. I think his relationship with Demi probably made him mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to read this whole thread so am not sure if this has been discussed—have you read his wife’s life story? Oh my goodness — I wonder if her childhood set her up to not be a good judge of character. How can one person have this much drama around them?

Bijou’s half-sister McKenzie Phillips accused their father of incest. John Phillips was long dead by then. The rest of the family responded by cutting her off.

And MacKenzie was a train wreck: alcoholic, addict, mental health issues, etc.

She had ruined her career, burned bridges, and was likely desperate for money to support her addiction.

Or maybe it was true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to read this whole thread so am not sure if this has been discussed—have you read his wife’s life story? Oh my goodness — I wonder if her childhood set her up to not be a good judge of character. How can one person have this much drama around them?

Bijou’s half-sister McKenzie Phillips accused their father of incest. John Phillips was long dead by then. The rest of the family responded by cutting her off.

And MacKenzie was a train wreck: alcoholic, addict, mental health issues, etc.

She had ruined her career, burned bridges, and was likely desperate for money to support her addiction.

Or maybe it was true?

Gosh, I wonder perhaps she was self-medicating because no one in her life - from the time she was a little girl - believed her or helped her.

Wonder what that would do to a person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ICYMI: Sharon Osborne recently said Ashton Kutcher was the rudest celeb she’s ever met. She seems to have met him when he was younger.

I think the only reason both Ashton and Mila wrote letters on behalf of Masterson was because he has something on Kutcher. Why else would they write letters when it’s obvious they will be openly criticized for standing by a rapist?

I’ve also met Ashton Kutcher and he was incredibly nice.

Was he young or older when you met him?

Sharon called him a rude little boy. I could see Kutcher and Masterson being high on fame as young adults. I think his relationship with Demi probably made him mature.

It was 2004. I met him in Paek City UT when he was in town to promote the butterfly effect at the Sundance film festival. I saw him in a quiet ski shop and he was really nice to me when I approached him. I was a dorky teen and he could’ve been a jerk, but he wasn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ICYMI: Sharon Osborne recently said Ashton Kutcher was the rudest celeb she’s ever met. She seems to have met him when he was younger.

I think the only reason both Ashton and Mila wrote letters on behalf of Masterson was because he has something on Kutcher. Why else would they write letters when it’s obvious they will be openly criticized for standing by a rapist?

I’ve also met Ashton Kutcher and he was incredibly nice.

Was he young or older when you met him?

Sharon called him a rude little boy. I could see Kutcher and Masterson being high on fame as young adults. I think his relationship with Demi probably made him mature.

+1. I was a rude little girl and luckily that isn't still haunting me. I'm nicer now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to read this whole thread so am not sure if this has been discussed—have you read his wife’s life story? Oh my goodness — I wonder if her childhood set her up to not be a good judge of character. How can one person have this much drama around them?

Bijou’s half-sister McKenzie Phillips accused their father of incest. John Phillips was long dead by then. The rest of the family responded by cutting her off.

And MacKenzie was a train wreck: alcoholic, addict, mental health issues, etc.

She had ruined her career, burned bridges, and was likely desperate for money to support her addiction.

Or maybe it was true?

Gosh, I wonder perhaps she was self-medicating because no one in her life - from the time she was a little girl - believed her or helped her.

Wonder what that would do to a person?

Maybe.

But sometimes people are just addicts (genetic predisposition is real, and growing up in Hollywood in the 70s certainly doesn’t help) and they concoct stories people will pay for when they need money…easy to do when the other person is dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ICYMI: Sharon Osborne recently said Ashton Kutcher was the rudest celeb she’s ever met. She seems to have met him when he was younger.

I think the only reason both Ashton and Mila wrote letters on behalf of Masterson was because he has something on Kutcher. Why else would they write letters when it’s obvious they will be openly criticized for standing by a rapist?

I’ve also met Ashton Kutcher and he was incredibly nice.

Was he young or older when you met him?

Sharon called him a rude little boy. I could see Kutcher and Masterson being high on fame as young adults. I think his relationship with Demi probably made him mature.

It was 2004. I met him in Paek City UT when he was in town to promote the butterfly effect at the Sundance film festival. I saw him in a quiet ski shop and he was really nice to me when I approached him. I was a dorky teen and he could’ve been a jerk, but he wasn’t.

I’m sure Danny Masterson was similarly nice to young girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to read this whole thread so am not sure if this has been discussed—have you read his wife’s life story? Oh my goodness — I wonder if her childhood set her up to not be a good judge of character. How can one person have this much drama around them?

Bijou’s half-sister McKenzie Phillips accused their father of incest. John Phillips was long dead by then. The rest of the family responded by cutting her off.

And MacKenzie was a train wreck: alcoholic, addict, mental health issues, etc.

She had ruined her career, burned bridges, and was likely desperate for money to support her addiction.

Or maybe it was true?

Gosh, I wonder perhaps she was self-medicating because no one in her life - from the time she was a little girl - believed her or helped her.

Wonder what that would do to a person?

I’ve been reading about Bijou’s life and it sounds like at one point she *did* believe her half sister’s claims.

Bijou grew up in part in foster care because both her parents were considered unfit to raise her. Then she went back into John’s custody, and then he allowed her to move into a NYC apartment on her own at 14 years old, with just a housekeeper to meet her needs. She had access to lots of money and spent her teens wasted out of her mind, losing virginity at 15, partying with the Hilton sisters and other infamous rich druggie kids of the time including a friend who OD’d. Then her father sent her to rehab at 17.

I have zero hesitation believing that John Philips was the kind of man who would have sex with one of his own daughters. He was deeply, profoundly messed up.

[Anonymous]

I also believe Mackenzie Phillips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to read this whole thread so am not sure if this has been discussed—have you read his wife’s life story? Oh my goodness — I wonder if her childhood set her up to not be a good judge of character. How can one person have this much drama around them?

Bijou’s half-sister McKenzie Phillips accused their father of incest. John Phillips was long dead by then. The rest of the family responded by cutting her off.

And MacKenzie was a train wreck: alcoholic, addict, mental health issues, etc.

She had ruined her career, burned bridges, and was likely desperate for money to support her addiction.

Or maybe it was true?

Gosh, I wonder perhaps she was self-medicating because no one in her life - from the time she was a little girl - believed her or helped her.

Wonder what that would do to a person?

I’ve been reading about Bijou’s life and it sounds like at one point she *did* believe her half sister’s claims.

Bijou grew up in part in foster care because both her parents were considered unfit to raise her. Then she went back into John’s custody, and then he allowed her to move into a NYC apartment on her own at 14 years old, with just a housekeeper to meet her needs. She had access to lots of money and spent her teens wasted out of her mind, losing virginity at 15, partying with the Hilton sisters and other infamous rich druggie kids of the time including a friend who OD’d. Then her father sent her to rehab at 17.

I have zero hesitation believing that John Philips was the kind of man who would have sex with one of his own daughters. He was deeply, profoundly messed up.

+1, I also think that it's possible that Mackenzie experienced so much abuse and neglect (well-documents, as shown above) that even if the molestation allegations are untrue, it's possible that in her mind escalating what happened to her to incest was the only way to get people to take it seriously.

I also think it's totally possible he molested her.

The point is that these kids were both abused and neglected. If a person who went through that and you know it, and then says "also I was molested," the healthy response would be to take it seriously and listen. The fact that her family cut her off and called her a liar just further demonstrates the extensive dysfunction in the family.

[Anonymous]

So disappointed in Ashton and Mila for writing supportive letters for DM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How disgusting Mila and Ashton wrote letters. Gross fake wile celebs.

That’s a tough one for me.
If they are friends, which they have been for a very long time, they likely do not believe that their friend is capable of such atrocities.
A character letter doesn’t speak to the veracity of the charge. It just says we know him to be a swell guy, and we love and trust him, etc.
If you were accused of doing these things and you swore up and down to your friends and to the world that you didn’t do it —wouldn’t you hope that one or two of those friends would say “yes of course I will write a character reference for you”

They may truly believe him to be innocent.
And in that case, it isn’t disgusting for them to write a letter on his behalf that says something to the effect of “these accusations are not aligned with the person that I’ve known him to be over the past 30 years”

I can't view it this way because I've experienced, as a rape survivor, being told by people "that's just not who he is," and it's just gaslighting. Good for you he never raped you, but you don't actually know he is, and acting like your experience with him can be placed next to my experience and weighed equally is BS.

Statements like this also tend to emphasize to survivors that they were chosen as victims specifically because they lacked the power and social capital of others. Masterson would never have attacked Kunis because she, like him, was famous and wealthy and there was no power differential to exploit. He only raped people he could dominate. This is a horrible feeling as a survivor, to realize you were chosen for your relative weakness, that your attacker knew people would be less likely to care about what happens to you or believe what you have to say.

And usually it works, and it dies so specifically because people in power will circle up and protect one of their own. Which is what Mila and Ashton were doing. Glad to see it didnt work this time.

I get where you're coming from with this. And I'm so sorry that you experienced this in your past.
You offer that you view it from the point of view of the survivor, which makes sense.
Would you have a different view of it if you were the accused who genuinely professed to be innocent? (I'm not saying he is innocent. But it does happen that there are people who are falsely accused.) Do you never think it is okay to say "this person is my friend and I believe him"?? Would you offer this in support of your husband, for example? Or your brother?
Or is that not possible to do given your history as a survivor of rape? (I'm sincerely asking, not trying to antagonize.)
Because I do get your point that they can't KNOW what he is doing every possible minute of the day. But I can 100% tell you that if anyone accused my DH of this, I would not only feel confident of his innocence, but I would be happy to say "I cannot speak to whether he did this because I was not a witness, but I will offer that if the evidence shows that he did this, it is in stark contrast to any character traits that I have ever witnessed from him in our 20+ years of marriage."
And I dont think that's the same as calling someone a liar or saying it didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How disgusting Mila and Ashton wrote letters. Gross fake wile celebs.

That’s a tough one for me.
If they are friends, which they have been for a very long time, they likely do not believe that their friend is capable of such atrocities.
A character letter doesn’t speak to the veracity of the charge. It just says we know him to be a swell guy, and we love and trust him, etc.
If you were accused of doing these things and you swore up and down to your friends and to the world that you didn’t do it —wouldn’t you hope that one or two of those friends would say “yes of course I will write a character reference for you”

They may truly believe him to be innocent.
And in that case, it isn’t disgusting for them to write a letter on his behalf that says something to the effect of “these accusations are not aligned with the person that I’ve known him to be over the past 30 years”

I can't view it this way because I've experienced, as a rape survivor, being told by people "that's just not who he is," and it's just gaslighting. Good for you he never raped you, but you don't actually know he is, and acting like your experience with him can be placed next to my experience and weighed equally is BS.

Statements like this also tend to emphasize to survivors that they were chosen as victims specifically because they lacked the power and social capital of others. Masterson would never have attacked Kunis because she, like him, was famous and wealthy and there was no power differential to exploit. He only raped people he could dominate. This is a horrible feeling as a survivor, to realize you were chosen for your relative weakness, that your attacker knew people would be less likely to care about what happens to you or believe what you have to say.

And usually it works, and it dies so specifically because people in power will circle up and protect one of their own. Which is what Mila and Ashton were doing. Glad to see it didnt work this time.

These are such good points and won’t penetrate the lead-lined brain of the Mila and Ashton apologist. To hell with them.

I agree that PP has good points, but YOUR instinct to go on the personal attack here is unnecessary.
Predictable, though, if you are under 40, because somewhere along the way we lost the civility to be able to just discuss the nuance and the whys of things without jumping to the conclusion that someone must decidedly be a "lead-lined brained apologist" for just wondering aloud whether there could possibly be a rational reason for them to offer up a character letter beyond that they are monstrous, terrible, evil people.

Maybe that's the answer and they ARE monstrous terrible evil people who support a monstrous man. But the point of the post was to say "maybe they saw what they were doing in a different light" as the act of friendship and support of someone they believed at the time to be innocent of the accusations.

I get that opinions are strong and heated. But the nuance in the discussion (that even the PP seemed to understand) is the question of whether or not it is okay for people to "support" a friend who professes his innocence by providing these letters if they genuinely believed him. The answer can still be "no it's not okay" from you without you hurling accusations the person asking the question is automatically an apologist.