Tenley Chick Filet takes measures against loitering after school by students, including Wilson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see it as a race issue. I do see it as a rowdy issue. And any application of behavioral norms will help raise the boat of all the kids. By behavioral norms I mean not shoplifting or attacking people in the street --things that go way beyond "kids will be kids'' the knee jerk defense. They should also have something to do/a place to go. It is fun to hang out with your friends. One doesn't always have a club, a job etc. Schedules vary. The school could look at this. They have a beautiful atrium. The idea of bringing food in and having kids hang there is a good one. AGAIN, the school and governing bodies need to be involved in this discussion and address the raised concerns.

Many privates stay open very late for just this reason. Wilson could provide homework help and study hall, open gym - it would be a win-win. Most privates are open till 6 pm, cafeteria or vending could be opened - $$$ stays at Wilson. GDS stays open even later.

Maybe but we are talking about DCPS employees, who aren't GDS employees, and have a union to minimize work.

As someone from a country that provides much better pay and benefits for its teachers (and has much better results in public education), I find this anti-teacher union talk misguided. Overworked and underpaid teachers (with minimal credentials to boot) are not going to be good for anyone.

I do agree that teacher need to be paid more! I dislike the idea of tenure for any teachers (college and university professors, yes because it protects their freedom of research). Tenure for elementary, middle and high school teachers just promotes mediocrity. Pay them a better salary! But no one wants high taxes to support education in this country anymore. This would be why our public schools are failing in the USA.

[Anonymous]

As the parent of two future Wilson students, I feel that the kids and the school need to address this issue themselves as a failure of leadership. You don't see this problem with the kids at Gonzaga.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly do you want to do about it though. It may be unpleasant to hear but there is no law in place that
would let the police arrest these teenagers. You can lobby for such a law though but statistics show that arrests in the teenage years probably encourage a move towards more criminal behavior not less. Unfortunately a lot of this has to do with low income kids growing up in unstable households without good role models. Perhaps we can lobby for extra money for DC schools to pay for more social workers or a community coordinator at every school who can teach a mandatory civics class after school along with money for free snacks and pizza. Or you can take the easy way out and move to a high end suburb preferably away from any high schools.

Step #1. Institute code of conduct for students travelling to and from DCPS schools that use taxpayer funded metro benefits.

Step #2. Communicate Code of Conduct.

Step #3. For OOB students found in violation of Code of Conduct, return to IB school (similar to excessive unexcused absences). For IB students in violation of code: detention, suspension, etc.

Done.

Legal basis for instituting and enforcing this Code of Conduct?

You mean metro authority has no mechanism to institute and enforce a Code of Conduct?

It's very easy to do, not just for Wilson students but for anyway riding the metro or accessing its stations.

Just requires the will to do so...which is probably what's missing in our broken city:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/lanier-exits-with-rebuke-of-the-districts-criminal-justice-system/2016/09/05/3fde324e-7108-11e6-8533-6b0b0ded0253_story.html

No, the metro authority cannot enforce a code of conduct targeting non-criminal behavior at Chick-fil-A or in the middle o fWisconsin Ave. or Ft. Reno. Are you kidding?

[Anonymous]

Which neighborhood listserve is blowing up about this? I haven't seen a thing on the Tenleytown one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is reasonable for people in public--including teenagers--to meet a somewhat higher standard of behavior than "it's not illegal", and for schools to communicate to their students (and their neighbors!) that they expect them to display good citizenship on and off campus.

I also do not think that loud, profane, racial talk, rude remarks to strangers, and pushing/shoving that spills over to others are behavior that should just be written off as "teens behaving like teens" any more than I think it's ok for young men to catcall or grope in public because "boys will be boys".

It may be reasonable to desire a higher standard, but it's not required by law. You cannot ask a police officer to arrest a teenager for swearing. Nor can you insist that the government take action so that residents don't prefer to do their shopping at a different time of day. If the community wants to come together and figure out ways to deter or redirect misbehaving teenagers, wonderful. But the very thing you're complaining about in the OP - the fact that a restaurant is switching to carryout only during a certain period of the day to avoid overcrowding and loitering - is one simple way to do that.

We've all been teenagers. This is more than misbehaving teenagers. Labeling it that way and downplaying it is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which neighborhood listserve is blowing up about this? I haven't seen a thing on the Tenleytown one.

I think someone said Cleveland Park. I'm on Tenleytown, American University Park, AU Park Parents, and Chevy Chase and I haven't seen a single post about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cleveland park listserve has this convo going on now.

Ok, so the convo outside of AU Park - the people in CP need something to keep them occupied. I live in AU Park and have kids in Janney and Deal and hopefully one day Wilson. This is a non-issue. Yes its a bit chaotic the hour before and after school starts but what else can you expect from an urban school with over a thousand students from all over the city. I think the Chick Fil-A approach force people to buy and them get the hell out - also, its is only an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly do you want to do about it though. It may be unpleasant to hear but there is no law in place that
would let the police arrest these teenagers. You can lobby for such a law though but statistics show that arrests in the teenage years probably encourage a move towards more criminal behavior not less. Unfortunately a lot of this has to do with low income kids growing up in unstable households without good role models. Perhaps we can lobby for extra money for DC schools to pay for more social workers or a community coordinator at every school who can teach a mandatory civics class after school along with money for free snacks and pizza. Or you can take the easy way out and move to a high end suburb preferably away from any high schools.

Step #1. Institute code of conduct for students travelling to and from DCPS schools that use taxpayer funded metro benefits.

Step #2. Communicate Code of Conduct.

Step #3. For OOB students found in violation of Code of Conduct, return to IB school (similar to excessive unexcused absences). For IB students in violation of code: detention, suspension, etc.

Done.

Legal basis for instituting and enforcing this Code of Conduct?

You mean metro authority has no mechanism to institute and enforce a Code of Conduct?

It's very easy to do, not just for Wilson students but for anyway riding the metro or accessing its stations.

Just requires the will to do so...which is probably what's missing in our broken city:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/lanier-exits-with-rebuke-of-the-districts-criminal-justice-system/2016/09/05/3fde324e-7108-11e6-8533-6b0b0ded0253_story.html

No, the metro authority cannot enforce a code of conduct targeting non-criminal behavior at Chick-fil-A or in the middle o fWisconsin Ave. or Ft. Reno. Are you kidding?

You don't get it. Metro authority of course can determine proper behavior within its stations. Or, next time, try riding naked while drinking wine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The community should rather be focused on boycotting the Hate Chicken. The Chicken company is run but bigots.

The community was strongly opposed to Chick-fil-A coming to Tenleytown, both because it's another fast food chain and because of the company's anti-LGBT politics.

You do know that Chick Fil-A is a franchise. Yes, maybe the founders are anti-LGBT but that does not mean that each owner/operator of the various locations are.

[Anonymous]

OP, there are some bright lines to be drawn to here.

1. Criminal or non-criminal:

a. Criminal: Almost everyone agrees that criminal behavior (even nuisance level misdemeanors like loitering or disturbing the peace) must be addressed, and the right way to to do that is to call the police for serious issues. Present day controversies are involved in this, of course. But, this is the only behavior to involve the police.

b. Non-criminal behavior: Whether you are in the "teen behavior" or "abhorrent behavior" camp, this is the stuff most of this thread is about. So no matter how you personally characterize the behavior, where are the bright lines here? See 2 and 3.

2. Non-criminal behavior public schools can address:

a. On campus -- the school can and does address it by the means codified by the DC government in the DCPS Code of Conduct. It is very specific and must be followed prior to disciplinary action for school-related behavior.

b. Off Campus -- Remember, a public school is a government actor, so constitutional rights are in play. How long is the arm of a public school principal? Not as long as you want it to be. There are many court cases addressing the extent of a public school's jurisdiction to control and punish student behavior. It covers school events off campus; school bus behavior; maybe, but not always, school bus stop behavior; behavior directed at teachers or school officials while off campus; and to a very limited extent behavior between students off campus when that reverberates back at school causing disruption (these are mainly cyber bullying cases).

So, among the behaviors and locations discussed here, arguably, the city could take action for behavior while in transit using subsidized fare cards as it is analogous to riding a school bus, but not while walking to and from, and not if the student does not use a subsidized fare card. So there is room for some reform action here, but this is on the DME, not the principals.

3. Non-criminal, off-campus behavior outside the jurisdiction of the school/government:

If the target behavior is off campus, not at a school function, not interacting with school officials, and not against fellow students where the behavior will carry over and disrupt the classroom, then it is outside the scope of a school's jurisdiction and ability to take corrective action. So, a school's power over this category of non-school, non-criminal, bad behavior is limited to:

a. social curriculum (which they do have); and
b. the threat of intangibles that serious kids care about, like personal reputation, school reputation, good recommendations for jobs or colleges, extracurricular privileges, and the esteem of their elders.

But guess who doesn't care about those intangibles?

So, several things can happen here:
-stores can set policies within their legal rights to control their own premises (lobby for more Chick-fil-A policies),
-Metro can do the same (and has - lobby for better enforcement),
-MPD can step in on misdemeanor behavior with warnings at least, and then tickets for repeat offenders (this will be controversial, but you can lobby for it),
-DME can modify the free Metro policy within legal limits to include consequences for violating metro policy (lobby for it),
-schools can enhance existing social conduct messages (write to the DME and OSSE),
-students can begin their own school pride campaigns (volunteer your time to help), and
-parents can mind their teens (not much you can do about this part).

Some of this may change the behavior of some kids; none of it will remove all disruptive teens from the area.

[Anonymous]

Nicely said. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cleveland park listserve has this convo going on now.

Ok, so the convo outside of AU Park - the people in CP need something to keep them occupied. I live in AU Park and have kids in Janney and Deal and hopefully one day Wilson. This is a non-issue. Yes its a bit chaotic the hour before and after school starts but what else can you expect from an urban school with over a thousand students from all over the city. I think the Chick Fil-A approach force people to buy and them get the hell out - also, its is only an hour.

You don't have to ride the metro with these kids, so you are missing most of the fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I'm not complaining about it. I think its probably the only thing they can do right now. I'm citing it as one example of impact, and others have provided many others, on our neighborhood when Wilson lets out for the day. I think the neighborhood had a complete right to ask for this impact to be looked at big picture. All these little adjustments you endorse seem to be one sided, and to affect quality of life for those who live here.

Move. There really isn't any other solution of than what the store is currently doing.

We left AU Park/Tenley and bought in another part of DC. We turned down Janney for a private and a quieter neighborhood. I am so happy we did it. Tenley isn't worth it!

I'm glad you're happy but peaceful is relative. They are still lovely, walkable neighborhoods with great schools - including Wilson. This conversation is focused on behavior in the business district and transport at a couple of specific times a day. So much is known about where/when this behavior occurs that its simply apathy to not come together to address it. When my child attended a different school OOB the principal read the riot act about respectful behavior and being good neighbors coming and going to school. Were the kids perfect I'm sure not. But at least the adults in their lives were communicating high expectations that come from a place of civics. There are so many ways Wilson admin, community policing and our political representatives could acknowledge this and tackle it, but they choose not to. I never thought I'd say it, but given this apathy, I'm beginning to understand why some people tout the change in feeder patterns as the long term solution. Presumably in bounds kids wont be perfect, but less likely to throw rocks at a car their mom might e driving. How long are we talking?

[Anonymous]

And I'd like to add I have zero issue with OOB and IB kids who are behaving great. Thank you . By not addressing this the adults in your life are not doing you or the schools rep any favors whatsoever. Thats too bad the adults dont take pride in the Wilson tigers.

[Anonymous]

A McDonalds in the area plays classical music which apparently is repellent to the teen loiterers.