CMI vs YY for PK3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's funny, YY parents fend off native speakers on these threads, rather than seeing them as a resource to harness out of self interest. By contrast, when YY parents hear my kids speaking Chinese around the neighborhood (too often bickering, bragging, whining or complaining), they often want to engage. They ask for tips on how to get their own kids to speak like that. I tell them my children's Chinese is just average for students in our heritage school. We like talking to YY families.

Too bad that DCUM often brings out the worst in parents.

I agree that it is too bad. Unfortunately, when I read about duplicitous heritage parents who mock the effort of children I really do want to fend them off. It's happened too many times on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's funny, YY parents fend off native speakers on these threads, rather than seeing them as a resource to harness out of self interest. By contrast, when YY parents hear my kids speaking Chinese around the neighborhood (too often bickering, bragging, whining or complaining), they often want to engage. They ask for tips on how to get their own kids to speak like that. I tell them my children's Chinese is just average for students in our heritage school. We like talking to YY families.

Too bad that DCUM often brings out the worst in parents.

I agree that it is too bad. Unfortunately, when I read about duplicitous heritage parents who mock the effort of children I really do want to fend them off. It's happened too many times on here.

Not a YY parent and no interest in the school, but it is SO TRUE that heritage families tend to crap all over YY! Perhaps they feel upset that they're not allowed a preference for admittance to the school, but this is not YY's fault. Frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Two questions:
1. What is the difference between dual immersion and one-way immersion?
2. Why are Chinese-American parents called "heritage speakers" but we don't call Guatemalan or Salvadoran parents "heritage speakers"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two questions:
1. What is the difference between dual immersion and one-way immersion?
2. Why are Chinese-American parents called "heritage speakers" but we don't call Guatemalan or Salvadoran parents "heritage speakers"?

RE 2 - because the Chinese American poster(s) often mention the suburban heritage language schools their kids attend on the weekends in their posts. Someone who was bickering with them here dubbed them Heritage parents.

[Anonymous]

Two-way immersion is when two groups of kids: one that is dominant in a foreign language and one that is dominant in English. This way, they can learn from each other, converse on the playground, etc. Leads to better outcomes in immersion.

http://www.cal.org/twi/toolkit/PI/Basics_Eng.pdf

Unfortunate that:
-The PCSB doesn't allow preference for speakers of other languages;
- there is a small pool of native speakers in DC and many of them (per these posts) don't even lottery for YY.

I consider this unfortunate. I grew up with a lot of first-generation Chinese immigrants (mostly from Hong Kong, Cantonese speakers). Mostly working class families. So the kids were the interpreters, but by and large, they didn't learn to read and write in Chinese - though they were fluent. They didn't have formal schooling in Chinese once they came to this country (which in many cases was when they were in the 2-5 year old range). This was in the 90s when many families were trying to get out of HK before the handover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two questions:
1. What is the difference between dual immersion and one-way immersion?
2. Why are Chinese-American parents called "heritage speakers" but we don't call Guatemalan or Salvadoran parents "heritage speakers"?

Oyster is a good example of dual immersion (as they have a Spanish lottery and an English lottery). That way, they get two specific groups of kids dominant in each language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two-way immersion is when two groups of kids: one that is dominant in a foreign language and one that is dominant in English. This way, they can learn from each other, converse on the playground, etc. Leads to better outcomes in immersion.

http://www.cal.org/twi/toolkit/PI/Basics_Eng.pdf

Unfortunate that:
-The PCSB doesn't allow preference for speakers of other languages;
- there is a small pool of native speakers in DC and many of them (per these posts) don't even lottery for YY.

I consider this unfortunate. I grew up with a lot of first-generation Chinese immigrants (mostly from Hong Kong, Cantonese speakers). Mostly working class families. So the kids were the interpreters, but by and large, they didn't learn to read and write in Chinese - though they were fluent. They didn't have formal schooling in Chinese once they came to this country (which in many cases was when they were in the 2-5 year old range). This was in the 90s when many families were trying to get out of HK before the handover.

Unfortunate or not, it's not up to the DCPCSB. Take it up with Congress.

Or get DCPS, which can do two-way immersion schools, to open a Chinese-English school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two-way immersion is when two groups of kids: one that is dominant in a foreign language and one that is dominant in English. This way, they can learn from each other, converse on the playground, etc. Leads to better outcomes in immersion.

http://www.cal.org/twi/toolkit/PI/Basics_Eng.pdf

Unfortunate that:
-The PCSB doesn't allow preference for speakers of other languages;
- there is a small pool of native speakers in DC and many of them (per these posts) don't even lottery for YY.

I consider this unfortunate. I grew up with a lot of first-generation Chinese immigrants (mostly from Hong Kong, Cantonese speakers). Mostly working class families. So the kids were the interpreters, but by and large, they didn't learn to read and write in Chinese - though they were fluent. They didn't have formal schooling in Chinese once they came to this country (which in many cases was when they were in the 2-5 year old range). This was in the 90s when many families were trying to get out of HK before the handover.

Unfortunate or not, it's not up to the DCPCSB. Take it up with Congress.

Or get DCPS, which can do two-way immersion schools, to open a Chinese-English school.

What do you see as the process for changing this? I know we've made other changes to preferences (most recently, adding staff children). I don't believe that went to Congress (except for the general approval they have to give for all DC laws. Usually they don't put up a fight unless it's related to abortion or gun laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two questions:
1. What is the difference between dual immersion and one-way immersion?
2. Why are Chinese-American parents called "heritage speakers" but we don't call Guatemalan or Salvadoran parents "heritage speakers"?

In the US context, dual immersion, or two-way immersion, is a language teaching and learning model where English-speaking students are taught/learn a language not just from teachers, but from peers and other members of a school community (parents, grandparents etc.).

Oyster-Adams is the only true two-way public immersion school in DC, because the popular school runs a "Spanish dominant lottery" filling around 40% of seats. Applicants can't enter the lottery simply because at least one parent is a native speaker - they must clear an interview bar. Mundo Verde and LAMB are not far behind Oyster, with around a third of students mainly speak Spanish at home (with percentages dropping year on year). In dual immersion programs, many of the conversations outside classrooms happen in the target language, and kids do a good deal of code mixing. At YY, where an estimated 1-2% of students mainly speak Chinese at home, one-way immersion rules the day.

I'm guessing the reason YY community uses the term "heritage speakers" to refer to Chinese Americans is because language dominant lotteries aren't allowed in DC charters. It's not a term I've heard in ABC circles, or college Mandarin-for-Chinese-speakers classes. Without any screening of students for native-speaking ability, it's impossible to know how well Chinese-Americans (and a few Chinese speakers who aren't American) in the community speak Chinese. So they are termed heritage speakers to avoid offending anybody, other than the children adopted from China by non-Chinese parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two-way immersion is when two groups of kids: one that is dominant in a foreign language and one that is dominant in English. This way, they can learn from each other, converse on the playground, etc. Leads to better outcomes in immersion.

http://www.cal.org/twi/toolkit/PI/Basics_Eng.pdf

Unfortunate that:
-The PCSB doesn't allow preference for speakers of other languages;
- there is a small pool of native speakers in DC and many of them (per these posts) don't even lottery for YY.

I consider this unfortunate. I grew up with a lot of first-generation Chinese immigrants (mostly from Hong Kong, Cantonese speakers). Mostly working class families. So the kids were the interpreters, but by and large, they didn't learn to read and write in Chinese - though they were fluent. They didn't have formal schooling in Chinese once they came to this country (which in many cases was when they were in the 2-5 year old range). This was in the 90s when many families were trying to get out of HK before the handover.

Unfortunate or not, it's not up to the DCPCSB. Take it up with Congress.

Or get DCPS, which can do two-way immersion schools, to open a Chinese-English school.

What do you see as the process for changing this? I know we've made other changes to preferences (most recently, adding staff children). I don't believe that went to Congress (except for the general approval they have to give for all DC laws. Usually they don't put up a fight unless it's related to abortion or gun laws.

I don't want it to change. But I would recommend you read the law that was passed 20-years ago and any amendments that have been made to it. Congress has accepted some preference changes, including allowing a preference for special needs to be created (happened 2 years ago). Only Bridges has used it and there's a lot of safeguards and hurdles for them to jump through. Study the legislative history,

You should also try and build a coalition of both admins and parents who want this change, get the Mayor on board, and talk to Eleanor Holmes-Norton's office and see if they would be willing to help.

[Anonymous]

"Heritage parents" is a DCUM thing, not a YY thing. I'm a YY parent and I've never heard the term used there. There was someone posting on here and another poster termed that person "Heritage mom". Just like other DCUM traditions like calling a kid "Larla." It doesn't really go beyond DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two-way immersion is when two groups of kids: one that is dominant in a foreign language and one that is dominant in English. This way, they can learn from each other, converse on the playground, etc. Leads to better outcomes in immersion.

http://www.cal.org/twi/toolkit/PI/Basics_Eng.pdf

Unfortunate that:
-The PCSB doesn't allow preference for speakers of other languages;
- there is a small pool of native speakers in DC and many of them (per these posts) don't even lottery for YY.

I consider this unfortunate. I grew up with a lot of first-generation Chinese immigrants (mostly from Hong Kong, Cantonese speakers). Mostly working class families. So the kids were the interpreters, but by and large, they didn't learn to read and write in Chinese - though they were fluent. They didn't have formal schooling in Chinese once they came to this country (which in many cases was when they were in the 2-5 year old range). This was in the 90s when many families were trying to get out of HK before the handover.

Our situation exactly. I can't read or write Chinese to save my life but speak well. We don't try to lottery into YY for reasons that would spark more discord if I mentioned them here. We homeschool our kids in both speaking and writing w/help from a MoCo heritage school. We do a good job (and striving to keep up with YY on writing/reading keeps us on our game) but it's a lonely and expensive process. Wish we had a dual-immersion Chinese school in town. Can't see that happening, ever.

[Anonymous]

What do you see as the process for changing this? I know we've made other changes to preferences (most recently, adding staff children). I don't believe that went to Congress (except for the general approval they have to give for all DC laws. Usually they don't put up a fight unless it's related to abortion or gun laws.

I don't want it to change. But I would recommend you read the law that was passed 20-years ago and any amendments that have been made to it. Congress has accepted some preference changes, including allowing a preference for special needs to be created (happened 2 years ago). Only Bridges has used it and there's a lot of safeguards and hurdles for them to jump through. Study the legislative history,

You should also try and build a coalition of both admins and parents who want this change, get the Mayor on board, and talk to Eleanor Holmes-Norton's office and see if they would be willing to help.



I've looked up the law (School Reform Act). But this is not something I'm familiar with. How did the special needs preference come into play? Wouldn't one lobby the PSCB and DC Council, get the law changed and submit it to Congress, just like any other DC law?

Why don't you want it to change, by the way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Heritage parents" is a DCUM thing, not a YY thing. I'm a YY parent and I've never heard the term used there. There was someone posting on here and another poster termed that person "Heritage mom". Just like other DCUM traditions like calling a kid "Larla." It doesn't really go beyond DCUM.

I hear the term used around YY. Maybe it's entered into common parlance with DCUM as the springboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What do you see as the process for changing this? I know we've made other changes to preferences (most recently, adding staff children). I don't believe that went to Congress (except for the general approval they have to give for all DC laws. Usually they don't put up a fight unless it's related to abortion or gun laws.

I don't want it to change. But I would recommend you read the law that was passed 20-years ago and any amendments that have been made to it. Congress has accepted some preference changes, including allowing a preference for special needs to be created (happened 2 years ago). Only Bridges has used it and there's a lot of safeguards and hurdles for them to jump through. Study the legislative history,

You should also try and build a coalition of both admins and parents who want this change, get the Mayor on board, and talk to Eleanor Holmes-Norton's office and see if they would be willing to help.



I've looked up the law (School Reform Act). But this is not something I'm familiar with. How did the special needs preference come into play? Wouldn't one lobby the PSCB and DC Council, get the law changed and submit it to Congress, just like any other DC law?

Why don't you want it to change, by the way?

Special needs parent from Ward 4. Barriers and hurdles for admissions will inevitably hurt my kid. I want more quality options and my kid to have the same shot as everyone else. We have to spend thousands of dollars per year on outside therapies, despite getting decent services in our charter school and one parent has to stay at home to manage all of that. I can't just move to Ward 3 as middle school approaches because our family income didn't grow as we expected/anticipated.

FWIW I am not a fan of staff preference either but that ship has sailed.

There's lots on the DCPCSB website about the special needs preference that would help you trace the history. You can also talk to the involved Council members offices.