CMI vs YY for PK3?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your info, 11:18. I am also a special needs parent (Ward 5). Totally understand about the therapies, expenses, and project management - and the few therapists that take insurance.

My SN kid isn't "SN enough" to get the SN preference at Bridges.

But I still believe it would be a good idea to allow native speaker preferences...even though I can't afford Ward 3 either. But to each her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for your info, 11:18. I am also a special needs parent (Ward 5). Totally understand about the therapies, expenses, and project management - and the few therapists that take insurance.

My SN kid isn't "SN enough" to get the SN preference at Bridges.

But I still believe it would be a good idea to allow native speaker preferences...even though I can't afford Ward 3 either. But to each her own.

My SN kid is too old for Bridges, and didn't need a self-contained classroom either.

[Anonymous]

I want it to change, but don't see this happening. The small bilingual professional community won't take on the YY parents, DCPC or DCPS. We don't want the hard work of educating DC parents, ed reformers and pols about the benefits of dual-immersion, an awkward conversation in a politically loaded environment. Nobody wants the stress or the name calling, not when most of us have access to high-performing DCPS schools. The Chinatown community won't help either - they're just trying to get through the day, with kids at struggling Thompson ES.

Chinese Americans have used their heritage schools to ensure that their kids know their culture and language for generations (e.g. the NYC Chinese Benevolent Society, a giant historic building in Chinatown which served as my dirt cheap summer camp). Chinese do this wherever there are ethnic urban communities, and have only started looking to Mandarin immersion ES programs for help in the last decade.

The vibe get at the school when you visit YY and speak Chinese to your kids (not to show off, but because you don't speak English to them) is the unfair competition vibe. It's very different when you meet friendly YY families who are serious about their kids learning Chinese outside the school. You start sharing notes on software programs, web sites, summer camps and so forth. It's all good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want it to change, but don't see this happening. The small bilingual professional community won't take on the YY parents, DCPC or DCPS. We don't want the hard work of educating DC parents, ed reformers and pols about the benefits of dual-immersion, an awkward conversation in a politically loaded environment. Nobody wants the stress or the name calling, not when most of us have access to high-performing DCPS schools. The Chinatown community won't help either - they're just trying to get through the day, with kids at struggling Thompson ES.

Chinese Americans have used their heritage schools to ensure that their kids know their culture and language for generations (e.g. the NYC Chinese Benevolent Society, a giant historic building in Chinatown which served as my dirt cheap summer camp). Chinese do this wherever there are ethnic urban communities, and have only started looking to Mandarin immersion ES programs for help in the last decade.

The vibe get at the school when you visit YY and speak Chinese to your kids (not to show off, but because you don't speak English to them) is the unfair competition vibe. It's very different when you meet friendly YY families who are serious about their kids learning Chinese outside the school. You start sharing notes on software programs, web sites, summer camps and so forth. It's all good.

By and large, YY parents (at least those already in!) would love to see preference for native speakers. It's the general community of middle-class DC parents who DON'T want it to change -- because that would lead to fewer spots for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want it to change, but don't see this happening. The small bilingual professional community won't take on the YY parents, DCPC or DCPS. We don't want the hard work of educating DC parents, ed reformers and pols about the benefits of dual-immersion, an awkward conversation in a politically loaded environment. Nobody wants the stress or the name calling, not when most of us have access to high-performing DCPS schools. The Chinatown community won't help either - they're just trying to get through the day, with kids at struggling Thompson ES.

Chinese Americans have used their heritage schools to ensure that their kids know their culture and language for generations (e.g. the NYC Chinese Benevolent Society, a giant historic building in Chinatown which served as my dirt cheap summer camp). Chinese do this wherever there are ethnic urban communities, and have only started looking to Mandarin immersion ES programs for help in the last decade.

The vibe get at the school when you visit YY and speak Chinese to your kids (not to show off, but because you don't speak English to them) is the unfair competition vibe. It's very different when you meet friendly YY families who are serious about their kids learning Chinese outside the school. You start sharing notes on software programs, web sites, summer camps and so forth. It's all good.

Just to correct, the Chinatown community speaks Cantonese - most don't speak Mandarin. Don't confuse ELL with bilingualism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Chinese Americans have used their heritage schools to ensure that their kids know their culture and language for generations (e.g. the NYC Chinese Benevolent Society, a giant historic building in Chinatown which served as my dirt cheap summer camp). Chinese do this wherever there are ethnic urban communities, and have only started looking to Mandarin immersion ES programs for help in the last decade.

You grew up in NYC -- there has been a significant Chinese population there for 100+ years, right? Of course they had resources for Chinese-Americans, immigrants, etc. I just looked it up; where I grew up (Chinese started arriving in the early 80s), there was no weekend Chinese language school until 1988, when my Chinese-American friends and I were in high school. And it was just beginning then. Thus, they were illiterate but fluent in Cantonese. And certainly didn't speak Mandarin.

[Anonymous]

I am a native Mandarin speaker and my DC is raised bilingual in Mandarin/English. I won't send my DC to YY and never put it on the lottery list.

If I want language immersion I try my luck with Spanish. If most YY parents with no Mandarin background are happy with their kids' Mandarin I'd say let it be. Mandarin/Chinese is far more difficult than Spanish for English speakers. You can't just rely on the school to achieve fluency. Even YY kids learn "broken" Mandarin that is still better than none.

And I will never tell YY or any other family with no Chinese background that their or their kids' Mandarin suck. Language learning is a long and continuing process. It is even more so for Chinese since it is a relatively isolated group of languages (yes, Mandarin is a language and Chinese is a group of languages based on one written system) that you just can't draw similarity from some other language groups you already knew. Stick with it for another ten years and I am sure any child can be fluent.

[Anonymous]

I did activities at the CBS in the 70s and 80s, after school and during summers, martial arts, lion dance etc. Right, we only spoke Cantonese there. Learned Mandarin in college -easiest class. Also went to a Chinese school in NJ to learn brush strokes.

Haven't kept up with characters, my own fault. But still speak Cantonese with family enroll kids in the progressive Cantonese School of Greater Washington (in Rockville). There's a YY child in my oldest kid's class there who's been pointed out to me as a "native speaker" by YY parents in my neighborhood many times. Sweet kid can barely get a coherent sentence out in Cantonese, but does speak some of that formal YY Mandarin.

My California cousins have it made with their public Chinese immersion programs. Parents and admins knock themselves out to incentivize native speakers to come. We went to an open house where the principal did a presentation in Cantonese, Mandarin and English, and wrote on the board in traditional characters, simplified characters, and English to keep everybody there on board. Handouts were the same. At YY, you hear"we teach the families how to celebrate Chinese holidays." But, apparently, the parents are pretty happy so best to avoid these threads.

[Anonymous]

PP, how do you like the Cantonese School of Greater Washington? It is open for enrollment this fall?

[Anonymous]

YY parents come here reporting that "everybody wants more native speakers" in the school. But what do they mean by this? Native Mandarin speakers? Not a quarter of Chinese immigrants to the US could be considered native Mandarin speakers, and they speak sub-dialects that don't bear a close resemblance to YY Chinese among themselves.

Do they mean native speakers of any dialect - as in 3 and 4 year-olds who speak Cantonese? MoCo offers thoughtful dialect transition support and Cantonese-speaking admins, YY not. So what's in it for bilingual families who don't speak Mandarin, other than support for writing and reading, and maybe an escape hatch to avoid a failing IB school (very few bilingual Chinese would move into an area with such a school; they're either too insular, e.g. the Chinatown crowd, or too education minded).

What I hear from parents whose kids speak good Chinese is "YY doesn't know what to do with kids who come already speaking Chinese, no matter what kind of Chinese it is." For that to change, YY will need admins who speak Cantonese and Mandarin. Admins like that could iron out logical policies and teaching methods to define, attract, and retain these native speakers everybody supposedly wants. Short of that, I don't see them trying to lottery in, no matter how much they're "wanted."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, how do you like the Cantonese School of Greater Washington? It is open for enrollment this fall?

Yes, open for enrollment and not expensive, see their website. Going into our 4th year and love it. Parent run but uses lovely MoCo ES. Kids (around 60, ages 3-12) are all over the map with language, but teachers differentiate well. Kids range from those speaking only Chinese at home with NIH researcher parents from HK to 3rd generation who picked up a few phrases from Ma-Ma and Ye-Ye. Welcoming of any parent teaching kids Cantonese and culture, including non-Chinese with Cantonese-speaking partners. Resources are limited by board is well run and holiday festivities well attended by extended families. Families come from MoCo, DC and VA. Kids transition to Mandarin from age 10 and adults can take conversational Cantonese or tai chi while kids are in class. Strong teachers (including from YY moonlighting), progressive methods, homework. My kids love Chinese art and Wushu classes after regular classes. You'd be very welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, how do you like the Cantonese School of Greater Washington? It is open for enrollment this fall?

Yes, open for enrollment and not expensive, see their website. Going into our 4th year and love it. Parent run but uses lovely MoCo ES. Kids (around 60, ages 3-12) are all over the map with language, but teachers differentiate well. Kids range from those speaking only Chinese at home with NIH researcher parents from HK to 3rd generation who picked up a few phrases from Ma-Ma and Ye-Ye. Welcoming of any parent teaching kids Cantonese and culture, including non-Chinese with Cantonese-speaking partners. Resources are limited by board is well run and holiday festivities well attended by extended families. Families come from MoCo, DC and VA. Kids transition to Mandarin from age 10 and adults can take conversational Cantonese or tai chi while kids are in class. Strong teachers (including from YY moonlighting), progressive methods, homework. My kids love Chinese art and Wushu classes after regular classes. You'd be very welcome.

Thanks! I checked it out and got the registration info. Do you mean before age 10 only Cantonese is taught and after age 10 only Mandarin? Do the classes focus more on conversational Cantonese skill or writing/reading in traditional Chinese? Are the kids grouped by Cantonese level or age? Average size of the class? Sorry for all the inquires. There is not enough info on the website. I've emailed the school but would also like to hear from parents.

[Anonymous]

Sure, happy to help the school by answering your questions.

Only Cantonese before age 10 or 11, then Mandarin-Cantonese mix. Mandarin program isn't well established yet (few kids over age 10 yet; program only in its 5th year) and some families switch to Mandarin heritage schools for MS age. But a good crop of 8-9 year olds is coming up to fill Mandarin classes eventually.

Classes focus more on writing/reading than speaking, because almost all the kids speak some Cantonese at home, but ABC parents often are not literate, or at least not very. Homework is fun - often YouTube based. Teachers and high school-age assistants speak little English in classes and will gladly have long conversations with kids who speak well. Interestingly, there are families who tried Mandarin programs abut bailed because kids did not make good progress and/or rebelled (with family unable to reinforce language learning) and parents feared kids wouldn't learn either dialect. There are a couple of kids in each class who speak as well as Hong Kongese peers. Parents generally plan for kids to study Mandarin as teenagers in MoCo schools.

Kids are divided by a combination of level and age, so a 7 year old who speaks well might be placed in same class as a 9 or 10 year old who speaks haltingly, and vice versa. Classes are 8-12 kids. Immigrant teachers are lovely, firm but sweet and the community feel is strong. Parents tend to hang around during classes chatting. Some attended a traditional Cantonese school in Rockville (which closed) as kids, have unpleasant memories, and don't want kill and drill. Kids like going and get along well. Most families come back every year.

I'm not on the school's board, but will suggest that more info is put on the web site.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. I guess it is not exactly what I am looking for since I want my child to pick up conversational Cantonese.

Still it sounds like a lovely school and more information about the structure of the school on the website will definitely help future interested families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the info. I guess it is not exactly what I am looking for since I want my child to pick up conversational Cantonese.

Still it sounds like a lovely school and more information about the structure of the school on the website will definitely help future interested families.

CSGW classes aren't in English or Mandarin, it's all Cantonese from age 3 to 10 or 11. This seems to be the only Cantonese school between NJ and Atlanta. Some parents have lost most of their Cantonese, but hire tutors so their kids can bump along with the others (school has contacts for tutors). Our children speak well, but we'd have burned out on teaching them without community support. They compare their Chinese to that of YY playmates who struggle to speak, so it's good for them to have peers who are fluent. Classmates are sweet in helping out beginners.

Good luck and maybe see you in Rockville.