When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not about daycare being good or bad - it is about optimal times in a child's development for introducing that care. 18 to 30 is the worst possible time and even daycare centers will tell you that. Seriously, take two minutes and google it.

No. This is about parent's making decisions for their child. Have you ever made a 'suboptimal decision' because, for whatever reason, that's what you decided at the time. Would you appreciate a family member blowing up in your face because you give your kids chicken nuggets once a week from McDonalds and that's not optimal?

We are all making non-optimal choices all the time because we have competing factors to manage. This is parenting.

Any suboptimal decision I ever made had no one giving me the counter-point. Had they, perhaps I wouldn't have made the lesser decision. PP said she apologized and felt bad for blowing up at her SIL. And I am just not that delicate of a flower - I don't wither and hold it against people forever when they have a strong emotional response to anything - even when it is in my face. I have always been more interested in honestly than decorum anyway - that is just me.

If someone raising their voice to you causes you so much stress than you are right to avoid emotional and high-strung people - you couldn't handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is not about daycare being good or bad - it is about optimal times in a child's development for introducing that care. 18 to 30 is the worst possible time and even daycare centers will tell you that. Seriously, take two minutes and google it.

- a WOHM whose baby has been in daycare since he was five months old. Like PP, I clearly am in favor of daycare starting before 18 months but not after. And especially not starting between 18 and 30 months. Sure the child will survive but why make him/her suffer and possibly develop lifelong abandonment and insecurity issues unless there is absolutely no other choice?

You need to give us more than "just google it." I have read and collected a lot of studies on daycare impacts and daycare in general and I don't remember seeing a legitimate study that concluded that there were "lifelong abandonment and insecurity issues" associated with starting daycare at 18-30 months. Please provide actual evidence-based support for your assertion, not just "google it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My great-grandmother's generation NEVER butted in. My grandmother has often told the story about a neighbor girl who had a known abusive father. He would get drunk and beat the kids and his wife. My great-grandmother (apparently) never let my grandmother go to her friend's house if the father was home or due home and always came up with other excuses like "Oh, I thought we would bake cookies here..." that would entice the girls to stay at her house. Never, ever would anyone ever report or call the cops on that bastard father - it just wasn't done. Nor would anyone ever talk to the wife/mother in that abusive house.

I do not want to live in THAT world. Say your peace, OP, and handle the consequences. Information is power. Let your friend/family member have all the information.

You are all crazy!!!! We are talking about a licensed daycare provider. Not an abusive father, for God's sake!

She has already voiced her opinion and it was dismissed. She is now handling the consequences. She can apologize for her "exploding" in her brother's and SIL's face. That is it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really question the judgment of any supposed school psychologist who can't control her own temper enough to calmly discuss any issue, let alone an issue that's likely to be sensitive like this one. Quite honestly, if I were the school psychologist's family, her temper tantrum would be enough to validate for me that I need to ignore her. I would not want to listen to somebody's opinion on emotional development when that person has so little in the way of emotional regulation skills herself.

Then you have never been a sibling! I am sure trained diplomats and crisis counselors lose it with their own adult brothers and sisters! You are also probably not Jewish or Italian!!! We go off all the time!

I'm a sibling. What I'm not is a sibling who claims to be an expert in emotional development and regulation, yet is entirely unable to control her own. That's the issue here. Her judgment is deeply suspect because of her past behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something that routinely comes up for me is seeing pictures on social media of people's kids buckled in their carseats the wrong way (loose straps, buckles around their belly buttons instead of at their armpits, etc). I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's seen these.

When you seem something like this, do you say something? Really could be a life/death situation if they are in a bad accident.

Is an incorrectly-installed/incorrectly-used car seat a parenting mistake?

The analogy would be an incorrectly-used seatbelt, which would then be what? A being-self mistake?

What a strange question. Why on earth does it matter? Regardless of what it's called, it's a mistake, that is made by parents, that could have terrible repercussions.

It matters because the topic of discussion is parenting mistakes. Is any mistake made by a parent a parenting mistake?

Um, yes? Part of the job of a parent is to keep his/her kid safe, and to know how to do it.

And of course, not every mistake made by a parent is a parenting mistake. If I forget to turn in a report at work, not a parenting mistake. If buckle my child in her carseat the wrong way, fail to lock cabinets where I keep cleaning solution, or put an newborn in bed with lots of blankets, those are parenting mistakes, because my job is to keep her safe.

Gee, no kidding?

This is a direct response to the preposterous question PP had posed - "Is any mistake made by a parent a parenting mistake?" Keep your eye rolling to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As I said, my parents are educators. I didn't say before, but I am a developmental neuroscientist (research, not patients) and my sister is a social worker in the foster care system. When you have clinical experience like PP and my family members, a bad idea like her SILs is not just an idea that sounds bad, as it is to us regular parents. It is a bad idea you have personally seen, and worked to counteract, the effects of--not just once, either, but dozens or hundreds of times. Your mind goes not to "what if it were my kid" as our normal-parent minds do, but to the faces of the many kids you've seen who were harmed by such approaches. PP is not objecting to daycare, as so many PPs think she is, but to the stated objective to "toughen up" a 2 year old boy who his parents think is too sensitive.

There's some major selection bias there, though. PP and your family members only see the children where X was done and things went wrong. They never see the children where X was done and things went fine.

um...ok? That's not news to me. I don't see your point.

Not PP, but the point is that it is silly to base a conclusion from a sample that is self-selected. You say the psychologist should be respected because she's seen lots of kids who had problems stemming from daycare. However, she has not seen all the other kids who had no problems, but were also in daycare. Therefore, she has no idea whether daycare is a problem in the kids that she has seen and should not draw those conclusions.

[Anonymous]

No isn going to try to "toughen up" any two-year-old that I love without a response - a strong response - from me! I don;t care who it is. My loving that kid gives me the right to speak.

Like a PP above - I am not a hot-house flower either. I WANT different opinions and I WANT to hear all sides. Giving birth did not make me omnipotent and infallible. I can take anything that anyone wants to tell me and then make my own decision with no hard feelings at all. In fact, I would be grateful.

Lots of little "delicates" in DC. In the midwest, we are not as afraid of possible disagreement especially when it comes to the welfare of our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As I said, my parents are educators. I didn't say before, but I am a developmental neuroscientist (research, not patients) and my sister is a social worker in the foster care system. When you have clinical experience like PP and my family members, a bad idea like her SILs is not just an idea that sounds bad, as it is to us regular parents. It is a bad idea you have personally seen, and worked to counteract, the effects of--not just once, either, but dozens or hundreds of times. Your mind goes not to "what if it were my kid" as our normal-parent minds do, but to the faces of the many kids you've seen who were harmed by such approaches. PP is not objecting to daycare, as so many PPs think she is, but to the stated objective to "toughen up" a 2 year old boy who his parents think is too sensitive.

There's some major selection bias there, though. PP and your family members only see the children where X was done and things went wrong. They never see the children where X was done and things went fine.

um...ok? That's not news to me. I don't see your point.

Not PP, but the point is that it is silly to base a conclusion from a sample that is self-selected. You say the psychologist should be respected because she's seen lots of kids who had problems stemming from daycare. However, she has not seen all the other kids who had no problems, but were also in daycare. Therefore, she has no idea whether daycare is a problem in the kids that she has seen and should not draw those conclusions.

LOL! Every one of your sentences is wrong. I've typed enough today on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No isn going to try to "toughen up" any two-year-old that I love without a response - a strong response - from me! I don;t care who it is. My loving that kid gives me the right to speak.

Like a PP above - I am not a hot-house flower either. I WANT different opinions and I WANT to hear all sides. Giving birth did not make me omnipotent and infallible. I can take anything that anyone wants to tell me and then make my own decision with no hard feelings at all. In fact, I would be grateful.

Lots of little "delicates" in DC. In the midwest, we are not as afraid of possible disagreement especially when it comes to the welfare of our kids.

lol You and I are the same. I am not delicate flower and want advice and opinion. I am a big girl - I still make my own decisions.

So for PP and OP - state your opinion/advice and let it go. But definitely put it out there.

[Anonymous]

I'm no wilting flower but I am unlikely to trust the opinion of somebody who presented themselves as a raging lunatic.

[Anonymous]

Sorry psychologist, but your reasoning is based on bad science. You were dead wrong on every level and there is no way you will be able to change your sibling's opinion on an otherwise good decision. Even if you had rationally sat down with them instead of blowing up and showed a pile of graphs explaining the ridiculous assertion that 23 months is the all-time worst age to start daycare and will cause a lifetime of woe, the child would go to daycare because you're full it and you act like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, please tell us what this parenting mistake is so we don't have to debate in-home care vs. preschools/daycares anymore

AGREE!!!

An it's really hard to advise with no details - for me so much depends on how close I am to the parent and what the concern is.

Those I'm closest to, my sister and my BF, I could say anything. As for anyone else, my default response is to mind my own business. Unsolicited advice (parenting or otherwise) is very rarely appreciated or followed.

I regularly bite my tongue with family and friends on so many issues. But I would speak up (or have) to some to share information, experience or a POV about something that is possibly dangerous and might really be out of actual ignorance (i.e. crib bumbers, old cribs, hanging cords, recalled stuff) BUT I wouldn't if I knew it was their actual choice in spite of the obvious risk (i.e.. smoking in their own house, holding baby in car).

This is really a case by case judgment for me - I'll mention one where I decided I had too.

This is the short version: Close friend/neighbor tells me that her 12 yo DS told her that this man who was staying at their house had exposed himself to him (DS). She thought DS was making it up. The man was basically a stranger and had been there a couple of months already and they were doing this a favor for someone in their community to be nice and help someone in need. I told her in no uncertain terms that they had to listen to their son and have this man leave ASAP and that I would be happy to have DS stay with us for the night. She said no, I'm sure he is making it up, he is just sick of having him here. I said you can't risk it and even if he is making it up that in of itself is really bad and you have to put your son's needs first. An unpleasant verbal exchange ensued and that was the end of a 14 year friendship.

I don't regret saying something but I do regret the nasty argument that followed.

Oh and the man remained for a number of months, and according to my source she never asked the man about the incident and 10 year later her DS still says it happened but that the man never did it again or anything else.

So, OP, I would say proceed with caution...

[Anonymous]

I just want to thank psychologist PP. OP dropped the ball on us by never telling us her burning parenting issue but you stepped into the breach and gave us something to argue about. You are my DCUM Hero of The Day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm no wilting flower but I am unlikely to trust the opinion of somebody who presented themselves as a raging lunatic.

lol She lost her cool with her sister in law and apologized. Now, in your book that makes her a "raging lunatic"?! You are definitely a wilting flower, PP, and very much a Drama Queen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in a similar situation, OP. Except I was a total jerk and had a strong emotional reaction first. Now I want to tell this parent/family member the facts calmly but an hesitant to open the can of worms that I did when I was an asshole and screamed at her.


Not to hijack your thread, but does anyone have advice for me? Can I now approach the subject calmly just to get on the record?

Keep your mouth shut.

+1

Wow - I disagree 100%!!! If I thought my sister was doing something that would emotionally hurt my nephew I would explode at her - and then apologize but definitely restate my objections calmly later. I love my nephew and my sister!!! These are not some random strangers whose business I can butt out of - they are constants in my son's, DH's and my life.


I would definitely bring it up again, PP.

I'll be looking for your sister's post on the "Family Relationships" board. Probably something about her sister yelling at her for deciding to formula feed her son. And then, after they'd moved past it (so she thought!) her sister sent her a follow up email with links and "calm" explanation. How thoughtful!

PP here and no. My nephew is a very, very bright but sensitive and well behaved boy and only 23 months old. He has been home with a loving nanny who reads to him about two hours a day which he loves - and older books for four and five year olds. This is a smart kid. He is also small for his age. My brother and SIL decided to send him to a big, franchised daycare for 8 hours a day at least and fire his nanny "to toughen him up". I am opposed to everything about this plan but mostly his motivation. I am a school psychologist and consultant for the top DC private preschools and I know this is a mistake.


I was a jerk to lose it on my SIL when she told me. Now I do want to talk to my SIL and brother about this calmly. And we are close - my brother's family and mine - having kids the same age and shuttling between each others houses for holidays and often evening date-night care.

I feel I have to say something.

There's exactly one thing to say:

I'm sorry, I was completely out of line." Nothing more. Nothing less.

And then hope your brother and SIL are the forgiving sort and you can go about having holidays together without simmering resentment (justifiable as it may be) or the silent treatment. But be prepared for them to limit how much they're willing to share with you, and graciously accept the limits they set.