What makes kids so expensive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

BTW, I didn't say it was an "unpopular" charter. I said that my oldest child got in when everyone in his grade got in (several years ago). That doesn't mean that there aren't waiting lists now or in other grades. And there are ALWAYS options like that.

Wow, why is there so much angst about the lottery if there are always high quality charters opening and making spots?

Because people are type A neurotic and can't bear the fact that it's not in their control?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daycare by far is what is going to end us. We can deal with the food, clothes, etc., but paying almost $4k for two is really going to hurt. We have one currently in at $2k.

Not to mention fixing the consequences. Better to do that job yourself.

Yay! Mommy wars have begun. Wondered why it took so long to start.

So SAH is a job now?

Doesn't someone have to do the childcare?

[Anonymous]

Putting aside all the angries on this thread - the major issue is this: You need to pay for whatever you think your kid needs to live the life you want them to have using the means and limits your life. And it's going to be more expensive than you think.

If you can mitigate childcare costs with more flexible job hours or with family care - awesome! If you bought a house pre-bubble in a good neighborhood- great! Don't want to send your kid to preschool? That's fine too! But, despite whatever expectations you have now, you may indeed want your kid to take soccer with all his friends, you may find you don't trust the DPR summer camps or can't get in, and you need to attend the expensive ones. Perhaps it's imporant to you that your child have music lessons. Your work might be so unpredictable that you need a nanny, not daycare and its possible that your kid will need special formula, braces, therapy or other.

If you are someone who is very frugal in your own life and forgoes many expenses your peers have, you will probably spend less than average on your kid. But you will still spend a bunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daycare by far is what is going to end us. We can deal with the food, clothes, etc., but paying almost $4k for two is really going to hurt. We have one currently in at $2k.

Not to mention fixing the consequences. Better to do that job yourself.

Those awful consequences like learning new languages, functioning well in a class setting, being cared for by people of all genders and ethnic backgrounds - how awful!

Yes, OP and PP - it's childcare. We pay $4k/mo for two in daycare/preschool (toddler and preschooler). There are few families that wouldn't feel that pinch.

My kids are young, but it's activities (soccer, my gym, etc), birthday parties (having and attending), food, clothes etc. But childcare if your kids are young is a MASSIVE expense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Breast milk saves a TON of $$$,
Not to mention less illness.

It's the best investment for
The first 9 - 12 months of life.

I WAH PT, so breastfeeding was cheap (after the initial expenditures of LC consults, renting pumps, SNS, etc.). I am very impressed by women who pump at an office, and that's not free. Taking the time, during the workday, stressing about amount, etc.

Also, the health benefits were not at all apparent for my DS with allergies, asthma, and constant cough, cold, and ear infections.

+1 my EBF until 12 months kiddo has asthma, immune issues, missed 4 months of school one year due to constant illnesses. My preemie who only BF for a short while and required very expensive not covered by insurance food plus expensive OT and PT also not covered by insurance, is healthy as a horse. Go figure. [and no I'm not saying this is a universal truth -- just pointing out that PPP's statement isn't either]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

Why? Because I'm not interested in your pool? It's nothing personal. Aside from everything else I'm not a big fan of laying by the pool, especially during a DC summer. But I do think it's funny that I'm first lauded for being one of those people who is "always trying" to get invited to your pool and then am "insufferable" because I have no interest in going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

Why? Because I'm not interested in your pool? It's nothing personal. Aside from everything else I'm not a big fan of laying by the pool, especially during a DC summer. But I do think it's funny that I'm first lauded for being one of those people who is "always trying" to get invited to your pool and then am "insufferable" because I have no interest in going.

I was the PP but it's my first post on the thread. I don't belong to whatever pool you are talking about. I get the whole downscaled life -- I grew up that way in the 70s, and my mom was SAHM and there was never much money. Still, all our home birthday parties had gifts, we had our own swimming pool (this was Florida) and we went to Disney every year.

Most people can't just slide their schedules around the school days -- bosses don't allow that. I don't know how you didn't pay for any care when your child was an infant -- you seemed to have skipped over that part. Most people don't find jobs within 10 minutes of their home. So many things you toss off as "easy" aren't easy at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

Why? Because I'm not interested in your pool? It's nothing personal. Aside from everything else I'm not a big fan of laying by the pool, especially during a DC summer. But I do think it's funny that I'm first lauded for being one of those people who is "always trying" to get invited to your pool and then am "insufferable" because I have no interest in going.

I am the pool poster and I did not say that you were insufferable. There are several posters here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

Why? Because I'm not interested in your pool? It's nothing personal. Aside from everything else I'm not a big fan of laying by the pool, especially during a DC summer. But I do think it's funny that I'm first lauded for being one of those people who is "always trying" to get invited to your pool and then am "insufferable" because I have no interest in going.

I was the PP but it's my first post on the thread. I don't belong to whatever pool you are talking about. I get the whole downscaled life -- I grew up that way in the 70s, and my mom was SAHM and there was never much money. Still, all our home birthday parties had gifts, we had our own swimming pool (this was Florida) and we went to Disney every year.

Most people can't just slide their schedules around the school days -- bosses don't allow that. I don't know how you didn't pay for any care when your child was an infant -- you seemed to have skipped over that part. Most people don't find jobs within 10 minutes of their home. So many things you toss off as "easy" aren't easy at all.

I have addressed what we did with our kids as infants. Many bosses do allow fleXible working hours.

[Anonymous]

Also I said school was 10 mins from work, not home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

Neither of you has a 9-5 job, so actually a pretty unusual situation. And you seem to have sacrificed a good deal of potential income and job stability and benefits to have this arrangement. I assume your DH income would be higher if he wasn't the default parent? You don't pay much out of pocket but there seem to be large opportunity costs you are discounting. Unless your careers are extremely self limited?

I have a 9-5 job, I just adjust my hours and work 7 or 8 til 4pm. This is a VERY common arrangement for many people. Of course there are trade-offs, but for me it is MUCH more important to have a quality of life and to spend time with my family than to struggle (financially and personally) with double our income. We are financially very well off, we just make different choices than you do.

It amazes me that some of you are so stuck in your own little bubble where it's essential that you spend $5k a year on travel sports and $100 a week on violin and $10k a summer on camps like there's no other option. There are plenty of other options and many of us in DC can prove it.

I don't know what "options" there are for a child to learn an instrument, other than paying for an instrument and lessons. Or for dance. Or for many sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

Why? Because I'm not interested in your pool? It's nothing personal. Aside from everything else I'm not a big fan of laying by the pool, especially during a DC summer. But I do think it's funny that I'm first lauded for being one of those people who is "always trying" to get invited to your pool and then am "insufferable" because I have no interest in going.

I was the PP but it's my first post on the thread. I don't belong to whatever pool you are talking about. I get the whole downscaled life -- I grew up that way in the 70s, and my mom was SAHM and there was never much money. Still, all our home birthday parties had gifts, we had our own swimming pool (this was Florida) and we went to Disney every year.

Most people can't just slide their schedules around the school days -- bosses don't allow that. I don't know how you didn't pay for any care when your child was an infant -- you seemed to have skipped over that part. Most people don't find jobs within 10 minutes of their home. So many things you toss off as "easy" aren't easy at all.

I have addressed what we did with our kids as infants. Many bosses do allow fleXible working hours.

You said your husband did most of the childcare when they were little, because he is self-employed. You also said you had childcare at your job (free?). While these options are not completely uncommon, it is not the norm in this area to have that level of flexibility.

I agree with some of your philosophy, but you've lost my interest because of your crap attitude. You feel superior to others because you've made different financial decisions, but it sounds to me like you're just making the best out of your mediocre salaries and slamming everyone else for being able to afford more.

[Anonymous]

No, I didn't. I explained in detail how our children were cared for as infants and toddlers.

Most people I know used a similar combination of care, including staggering maternity and paternity leave and taking the full 22 weeks each for almost a full year at home divided by both parents.

BTW back up care is a common benefit offered by many DC area companies for a limited number of days per year. Check with your HR dept, you may have it and just not realize. Typically it's either offered at no cost or a low co pay for the employee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

You had some good ideas in your original post, but now you just come off as insufferable.

Why? Because I'm not interested in your pool? It's nothing personal. Aside from everything else I'm not a big fan of laying by the pool, especially during a DC summer. But I do think it's funny that I'm first lauded for being one of those people who is "always trying" to get invited to your pool and then am "insufferable" because I have no interest in going.

I am the pool poster and I did not say that you were insufferable. There are several posters here.

Thank you pool poster. I have many friends who go to your pool and they do love it and I can see why it makes financial sense for their families. Also a great place to socialize. But even if it were free I don't think we'd go regularly (esp given that we've never made it to date despite multiple invites over several years).