Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a (lengthy, self-indulgent) observation that at a VYS travel tryout a few days ago it was clear that the teams had already been formed. The existing A teams were not required to try out (maybe for good reason?). The existing B travel teams practiced at length before the tryout began while the house kids stood around quivering in terror. All of the travel players wore white jerseys and the terrified house kids were made to don fluorescent pinnies that branded them as fringe outsiders throughout the tryout (I'm exaggerating, but, yes, the house players all wore pinnies, while the travel players wore uniforms). The tryout consisted of the pre-existing travel teams playing small-sided scrimmages against teams of house players who had never played together before. Some of the house teams playing ugly, physical soccer and mindlessly smacking the long ball slaughtered the travel teams maintaining possession out of the back. Most didn't. Virtually without exception the travel players were small, incredibly quick with their feet, and great at making rapid tactical decisions, but there was little raw speed or power, so that their athleticism, while remarkable in a lot of respects, seemed very specialized. Is that the way it should be? An eye-opening experience, but all kind of pointless because there didn't seem to be a single spot up for grabs. Maybe continuity is the important thing, and parents need to be sure to get their kid on a team at the first opportunity (which I believe is rising U9).

What age group?

Sounds like the rising U10 one last night too (not exactly, but similar). I wondered if there was any point really-are they really going to drop some existing players for new kids they have only seen in those few scrimmages? Sad for people like us who just moved here.

This was our experience last year, U-10. We also just moved here then and it looked like an absolutely pointless try-out. Also, where we moved from cross-over training didn't start until U-10 so he had no extra "training" of sorts, whereas here kids have been cross over training since U-7. He's just a great athlete that has some good soccer talent and lots of potential.

Right now on his house league, people are constantly asking us if he plays/played Travel because of his talent. But there was no chance for him at the tryouts last year, he just didn't know as much as the rest of the Travel players that were 'trying out'. He doesn't even want to bother trying out this year.

It's just to replace all the players VYS sends to other clubs, right?

No, no -- seriously, that's a real issue. Like a lot of places in NoVa, Vienna has a bit of turnover -- military families, diplomats, etc. Between that and families simply opting out of travel (and, yes, going to other clubs), there should be at least 5 openings each year. So as intimidating as it seems, the spaces are available. And VYS is starting "crossover" for U9 and U10 House players, so they may be able to make up the training gap between House and travel.

But they're still reticent to "cut" players who get through a full travel year, and VYS gets a lot of people trying out. I've seen people lost in the shuffle at VYS who are now thriving on NCSL teams at PAC, a smaller club that's theoretically in Falls Church but really operates mostly in Merrifield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a (lengthy, self-indulgent) observation that at a VYS travel tryout a few days ago it was clear that the teams had already been formed. The existing A teams were not required to try out (maybe for good reason?). The existing B travel teams practiced at length before the tryout began while the house kids stood around quivering in terror. All of the travel players wore white jerseys and the terrified house kids were made to don fluorescent pinnies that branded them as fringe outsiders throughout the tryout (I'm exaggerating, but, yes, the house players all wore pinnies, while the travel players wore uniforms). The tryout consisted of the pre-existing travel teams playing small-sided scrimmages against teams of house players who had never played together before. Some of the house teams playing ugly, physical soccer and mindlessly smacking the long ball slaughtered the travel teams maintaining possession out of the back. Most didn't. Virtually without exception the travel players were small, incredibly quick with their feet, and great at making rapid tactical decisions, but there was little raw speed or power, so that their athleticism, while remarkable in a lot of respects, seemed very specialized. Is that the way it should be? An eye-opening experience, but all kind of pointless because there didn't seem to be a single spot up for grabs. Maybe continuity is the important thing, and parents need to be sure to get their kid on a team at the first opportunity (which I believe is rising U9).

What age group?

Sounds like the rising U10 one last night too (not exactly, but similar). I wondered if there was any point really-are they really going to drop some existing players for new kids they have only seen in those few scrimmages? Sad for people like us who just moved here.

This was our experience last year, U-10. We also just moved here then and it looked like an absolutely pointless try-out. Also, where we moved from cross-over training didn't start until U-10 so he had no extra "training" of sorts, whereas here kids have been cross over training since U-7. He's just a great athlete that has some good soccer talent and lots of potential.

Right now on his house league, people are constantly asking us if he plays/played Travel because of his talent. But there was no chance for him at the tryouts last year, he just didn't know as much as the rest of the Travel players that were 'trying out'. He doesn't even want to bother trying out this year.

One thing to keep in mind if you haven't been through this process before is that the team rosters expand signficantly at the rising U13 level as teams move from 8 v 8 to 11 v 11. That can be another entry point onto a good team for good (athletic + skilled) players. But if your child is a great athlete and faster than his peers, he'd be of interest to a lot of teams right now, even if he's behind on skills relatively speaking. It probably makese sense to try out for other area clubs if any of them are within a reasonable distance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing to keep in mind if you haven't been through this process before is that the team rosters expand signficantly at the rising U13 level as teams move from 8 v 8 to 11 v 11.

In theory yes, but in practice, not always. A lot of clubs (like VYS) will switch from 4 teams of twelve to 3 teams of sixteen, meaning no positions may be open, or will go from 3 teams of twelve to 2 teams of sixteen, meaning 4 fewer positions are available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to keep in mind if you haven't been through this process before is that the team rosters expand signficantly at the rising U13 level as teams move from 8 v 8 to 11 v 11.

In theory yes, but in practice, not always. A lot of clubs (like VYS) will switch from 4 teams of twelve to 3 teams of sixteen, meaning no positions may be open, or will go from 3 teams of twelve to 2 teams of sixteen, meaning 4 fewer positions are available.

If clubs are keeping the same kids who have been in their program for years and just reshuffling them at U13, they are very different from the clubs we have experience with, which seem to want to ensure that they have very competitive A and B teams by that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to keep in mind if you haven't been through this process before is that the team rosters expand signficantly at the rising U13 level as teams move from 8 v 8 to 11 v 11.

In theory yes, but in practice, not always. A lot of clubs (like VYS) will switch from 4 teams of twelve to 3 teams of sixteen, meaning no positions may be open, or will go from 3 teams of twelve to 2 teams of sixteen, meaning 4 fewer positions are available.

If clubs are keeping the same kids who have been in their program for years and just reshuffling them at U13, they are very different from the clubs we have experience with, which seem to want to ensure that they have very competitive A and B teams by that age.

Consistent with its "Vienna first" policy, in Eddie's academies, VYS just reshuffles and will take very few if any players from outside the club. Eddie would rather promote a house player to the D team than accept a B team player from outside the club. That's one of the reasons why VYS teams regress over time, as whenever any player leaves a team, they're almost alwaysreplaced by a player from the next lower level team, who is by definition not as good. The remaining good players then have the dilemma of sticking with a less-competitive team, or moving on themselves, which restarts the cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Consistent with its "Vienna first" policy, in Eddie's academies, VYS just reshuffles and will take very few if any players from outside the club. Eddie would rather promote a house player to the D team than accept a B team player from outside the club. That's one of the reasons why VYS teams regress over time, as whenever any player leaves a team, they're almost always replaced by a player from the next lower level team, who is by definition not as good. The remaining good players then have the dilemma of sticking with a less-competitive team, or moving on themselves, which restarts the cycle.

And that's a simple matter of philosophy. VYS represents Vienna, without apology.

VYS could still have decent "A" teams (and has, especially on the girls side). By those age groups, they're finally tiering the teams as A/B/C, so the top "AB" players are combining on an "A" team. Maybe some clubs recruit from outside so their B teams can be in D3 rather than D4, but VYS generally doesn't. Personally, I have no problem with late bloomers or kids who haven't been able to commit to travel from U9 to U12 finally moving onto a travel team at U14. Talk to pro athletes, and you'll find many of them were daisy-pickers in the early years.

Several players in all clubs drop out by this age. Some families manage to combine travel soccer with other sports through middle school, and the other sport wins out in the long run. Or the kids just get sick of parents and coaches pushing them from U8 through U14 and figure they've had enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington also has a great developmental program for kids who are between rec and travel level. Other clubs have a similar program. So if your child is not offered a travel spot, they may be invited to try out for the developmental program, which has lower cost, a mix of professional and volunteer coaches, and a lower level of commitment required. This is a great option for many kids who don't make a travel team but who find that rec may not be teaching them much - or who love their rec team and want to improve their skills as well.

this is only the first year perhaps it had worked great for your kid/family but i've also learned negatives from a couple of families when we're contemplating whether to accept the spot. so for a program still in its infancy i'd say jury's still out.

At least Arlingon is trying something. When trying out for the U9 travel team this year, it was nice to know developmental was an option vs going back to rec. my son was really outgrowing his rec team. He did make a team, but developmental was a great back up.

[Anonymous]

OK, Q for those who've been around the block with travel soccer:

DS, U9 next fall, will probably have a choice between (1) playing in an academy-style program that fields NCSL teams, and in which he doesn't know any of the kids right now, or (2) playing on an ODSL team in his current league with kids he knows.

I know he would choose (2) -- he very much likes the known quantity. But from reading this thread, I wonder if we would be making a mistake by not getting into a more structured program at U9, when there are more spots up for grabs? Or are we risking burnout by pushing him too much at age 8?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to keep in mind if you haven't been through this process before is that the team rosters expand signficantly at the rising U13 level as teams move from 8 v 8 to 11 v 11.

In theory yes, but in practice, not always. A lot of clubs (like VYS) will switch from 4 teams of twelve to 3 teams of sixteen, meaning no positions may be open, or will go from 3 teams of twelve to 2 teams of sixteen, meaning 4 fewer positions are available.

If clubs are keeping the same kids who have been in their program for years and just reshuffling them at U13, they are very different from the clubs we have experience with, which seem to want to ensure that they have very competitive A and B teams by that age.

Consistent with its "Vienna first" policy, in Eddie's academies, VYS just reshuffles and will take very few if any players from outside the club. Eddie would rather promote a house player to the D team than accept a B team player from outside the club. That's one of the reasons why VYS teams regress over time, as whenever any player leaves a team, they're almost alwaysreplaced by a player from the next lower level team, who is by definition not as good. The remaining good players then have the dilemma of sticking with a less-competitive team, or moving on themselves, which restarts the cycle.

That's interesting. It sounds like VYS is one of the few area programs trying to follow a relatively pure development model with not much focus on making sure teams are competetive enough in the short term to win games and tournaments. Is the theory that after a few years of the same kids receiving focused training the teams will start to be competetive by virtue of the kids' well developed skills, tactical knowledge, etc? Or is winning not part of the equation at all? Even if the kids involved end up being well-rounded soccer players, I'd think most parents who stick with travel soccer through high school eventually want their kids to be on teams good enough to get into showcase tournaments so they can potentially be scouted for college.

[Anonymous]

Another question about team placement/travel tryouts.

At U-9 (first travel team)---we are in a situation where there will be 4 teams of 10-12 kids. Kids were selected and then they had field sessions to determine team divisions, e.g, A, B, C, D.

Do they just put all they deem most-skilled on first team or do they get an idea of different positions at this age. Field a team with a kid that looks like best defender, a best striker, etc. Kids definitely already could be seen to have definite tendency--e.g., the ones with a definite attack/nose for the goal type play--and they more hang back defender-style.

This is our first year so I was just curious. We are just happy to be on a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, Q for those who've been around the block with travel soccer:

DS, U9 next fall, will probably have a choice between (1) playing in an academy-style program that fields NCSL teams, and in which he doesn't know any of the kids right now, or (2) playing on an ODSL team in his current league with kids he knows.

I know he would choose (2) -- he very much likes the known quantity. But from reading this thread, I wonder if we would be making a mistake by not getting into a more structured program at U9, when there are more spots up for grabs? Or are we risking burnout by pushing him too much at age 8?

You have to decide which format works best for your kid personality-wise, but in terms of soccer development, go with the academy program, without a doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another question about team placement/travel tryouts.

At U-9 (first travel team)---we are in a situation where there will be 4 teams of 10-12 kids. Kids were selected and then they had field sessions to determine team divisions, e.g, A, B, C, D.

Do they just put all they deem most-skilled on first team or do they get an idea of different positions at this age. Field a team with a kid that looks like best defender, a best striker, etc. Kids definitely already could be seen to have definite tendency--e.g., the ones with a definite attack/nose for the goal type play--and they more hang back defender-style.

This is our first year so I was just curious. We are just happy to be on a team.

It will depend on your club, but generally they will take the most skilled players on the top team, without regards to positions, as at that age, it's too early to tell who should be playing where, even though some players will already start to show a preference. Personally, if the club/team did slot players into just one position at U9, I would consider moving to another club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question about team placement/travel tryouts.

At U-9 (first travel team)---we are in a situation where there will be 4 teams of 10-12 kids. Kids were selected and then they had field sessions to determine team divisions, e.g, A, B, C, D.

Do they just put all they deem most-skilled on first team or do they get an idea of different positions at this age. Field a team with a kid that looks like best defender, a best striker, etc. Kids definitely already could be seen to have definite tendency--e.g., the ones with a definite attack/nose for the goal type play--and they more hang back defender-style.

This is our first year so I was just curious. We are just happy to be on a team.

It will depend on your club, but generally they will take the most skilled players on the top team, without regards to positions, as at that age, it's too early to tell who should be playing where, even though some players will already start to show a preference. Personally, if the club/team did slot players into just one position at U9, I would consider moving to another club.

Thanks! That is exactly what I thought too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question about team placement/travel tryouts.

At U-9 (first travel team)---we are in a situation where there will be 4 teams of 10-12 kids. Kids were selected and then they had field sessions to determine team divisions, e.g, A, B, C, D.

Do they just put all they deem most-skilled on first team or do they get an idea of different positions at this age. Field a team with a kid that looks like best defender, a best striker, etc. Kids definitely already could be seen to have definite tendency--e.g., the ones with a definite attack/nose for the goal type play--and they more hang back defender-style.

This is our first year so I was just curious. We are just happy to be on a team.

It will depend on your club, but generally they will take the most skilled players on the top team, without regards to positions, as at that age, it's too early to tell who should be playing where, even though some players will already start to show a preference. Personally, if the club/team did slot players into just one position at U9, I would consider moving to another club.

Thanks! That is exactly what I thought too.

Oh- and I think that is what they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Consistent with its "Vienna first" policy, in Eddie's academies, VYS just reshuffles and will take very few if any players from outside the club. Eddie would rather promote a house player to the D team than accept a B team player from outside the club. That's one of the reasons why VYS teams regress over time, as whenever any player leaves a team, they're almost alwaysreplaced by a player from the next lower level team, who is by definition not as good. The remaining good players then have the dilemma of sticking with a less-competitive team, or moving on themselves, which restarts the cycle.

That's interesting. It sounds like VYS is one of the few area programs trying to follow a relatively pure development model with not much focus on making sure teams are competetive enough in the short term to win games and tournaments. Is the theory that after a few years of the same kids receiving focused training the teams will start to be competetive by virtue of the kids' well developed skills, tactical knowledge, etc? Or is winning not part of the equation at all? Even if the kids involved end up being well-rounded soccer players, I'd think most parents who stick with travel soccer through high school eventually want their kids to be on teams good enough to get into showcase tournaments so they can potentially be scouted for college.

You've basically got it in terms of the VYS philosophy.

Players who are good enough for college (a much smaller group than we realize) are going to stand out. They might make ODP. They might go to D.C. United's Academy (and yes, players have gone straight from VYS to D.C. United's Academy).

I do think VYS goes too far at times in stressing development over winning. You still want 9- and 10-year-old kids to have good experiences. VYS takes so many kids (without a selection process) to the U8 "crossover" program that they're going to get pummeled in a few games, and that's no fun for anyone.

But the basic intent is good. Just needs some tweaking.