Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS, those dismal letters . . .

What's frustrating is the squandered potential. VYS has good fields and facilities, efficient administration of all the background stuff, and interested parents. But somehow things are always just a bit off. The poor six-year-olds play on a field that's slightly too big, for quarters that are two minutes too long, and on teams that have one player too many. On a hot day it's torture. Eventually the small issues add up and you have travel teams that lack a certain something.

House practices are incredibly boring and of little worth. Someone needs to instruct these earnest company men from the hinterlands to let the kids run around for a bit. The overly regimented house training also affects travel eventually.

Part of the problem may be that VYI (a separate entity that houses teams for many other sports) is now delivering a lot more fun and high performance in football, basketball, and lacrosse. Vienna's County basketball teams, for example, do surprisingly well, while VYS travel teams (with several exceptions) are just okay.

I think the VYS parents are ready for some innovation, and there are some encouraging signs with the new programs created by the Technical Director. Like a lot of VYS folks, I'm chronically annoyed but still a little optimistic.

I keep seeing references to VYS having good travel teams but I just don't see it. They have a good U15 girls program, and their U14 girls was good but is falling apart, but both of those predate their academy program, which seems best at encouraging good players to move to better clubs.

My VYS experience (as a parent coach) is nearly the opposite. That might be because the people who are most prone to discuss their soccer experiences here are the ones who are most serious about it. I get a lot of disinterested parents who can barely be bothered to bring their kids to games on time. The field situation is horrid compared to the exurban giants with tons of free space -- I've trained on elementary school fields with sinkholes and played games on lopsided fields with a few overgrown tufts of grass popping up through the dirt. Vienna is in the "tween" area -- they're not an inner-ring suburb with thousands of soccer-crazed families who play pickup soccer for fun, and they're not an exurb that can carve up its land for sprawling soccer complexes. And they don't have a lot of parents who are willing to spend $25,000 on a travel soccer career so their little precious can get $5,000 in college scholarship money. They have a few good administrators (the field assignor is a miracle worker) but a few who have overstayed their welcome.

(I am curious to know what you mean about house practices being boring and regimented -- do you mean the parent-led practices or the technical staff's extra training? Parents are a crapshoot. Some of us are up to speed on everything U.S. Soccer is trying to accomplish these days. Some are former high school jocks who don't listen to much. VYS could do a better job of following up on the licensing courses and getting parent coaches -- and parents! -- to understand some basic principles.)

Eddie Lima was a great hire. He gets what it means to have a community club that offers programs to people of all levels. And VYS meets 99% of families' needs. If they're 1 percenters who would be bored in NCSL, then by all means go somewhere else. (Though, for the record, VYS boys recently had a team in the Region I Colonial League. It's not impossible.) He has revved up training programs at the younger ages, and that should pay off in the older groups down the road. They're competing at a decent level now, and they have the chance to move up down the road. And they aren't running around poaching from other clubs -- it's "Vienna first."

Sometimes, Eddie's insistence on doing things the "right" way means younger VYS teams compete at a disadvantage. VYS doesn't tier its younger teams into A, B, C and D. It's "AB" in NCSL and "CD" in ODSL. And because NCSL has the "Oh, no, we don't have promotion/relegation divisions at U10, but we make A teams play other A teams" approach to scheduling, it means one VYS team is playing an "A" schedule and one of roughly equal ability is playing a "B" schedule.

And so I think a big part of VYI programs looking like a better alternative is less about what VYS is doing and more about the rest of the region's approach to soccer. Vienna has a proud baseball tradition -- Madison has been nationally ranked at times. How many 10-year-old baseball players are worried about which league to play in? Or whether VLL has the right training programs? These things are just less of an issue in other sports.

If soccer folks could actually bring themselves to follow their own precepts (no tryouts until U12, for example), maybe the sport would be less stressful. Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Just a (lengthy, self-indulgent) observation that at a VYS travel tryout a few days ago it was clear that the teams had already been formed. The existing A teams were not required to try out (maybe for good reason?). The existing B travel teams practiced at length before the tryout began while the house kids stood around quivering in terror. All of the travel players wore white jerseys and the terrified house kids were made to don fluorescent pinnies that branded them as fringe outsiders throughout the tryout (I'm exaggerating, but, yes, the house players all wore pinnies, while the travel players wore uniforms). The tryout consisted of the pre-existing travel teams playing small-sided scrimmages against teams of house players who had never played together before. Some of the house teams playing ugly, physical soccer and mindlessly smacking the long ball slaughtered the travel teams maintaining possession out of the back. Most didn't. Virtually without exception the travel players were small, incredibly quick with their feet, and great at making rapid tactical decisions, but there was little raw speed or power, so that their athleticism, while remarkable in a lot of respects, seemed very specialized. Is that the way it should be? An eye-opening experience, but all kind of pointless because there didn't seem to be a single spot up for grabs. Maybe continuity is the important thing, and parents need to be sure to get their kid on a team at the first opportunity (which I believe is rising U9).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a (lengthy, self-indulgent) observation that at a VYS travel tryout a few days ago it was clear that the teams had already been formed. The existing A teams were not required to try out (maybe for good reason?). The existing B travel teams practiced at length before the tryout began while the house kids stood around quivering in terror. All of the travel players wore white jerseys and the terrified house kids were made to don fluorescent pinnies that branded them as fringe outsiders throughout the tryout (I'm exaggerating, but, yes, the house players all wore pinnies, while the travel players wore uniforms). The tryout consisted of the pre-existing travel teams playing small-sided scrimmages against teams of house players who had never played together before. Some of the house teams playing ugly, physical soccer and mindlessly smacking the long ball slaughtered the travel teams maintaining possession out of the back. Most didn't. Virtually without exception the travel players were small, incredibly quick with their feet, and great at making rapid tactical decisions, but there was little raw speed or power, so that their athleticism, while remarkable in a lot of respects, seemed very specialized. Is that the way it should be? An eye-opening experience, but all kind of pointless because there didn't seem to be a single spot up for grabs. Maybe continuity is the important thing, and parents need to be sure to get their kid on a team at the first opportunity (which I believe is rising U9).

What age group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My VYS experience (as a parent coach) is nearly the opposite. That might be because the people who are most prone to discuss their soccer experiences here are the ones who are most serious about it. I get a lot of disinterested parents who can barely be bothered to bring their kids to games on time. The field situation is horrid compared to the exurban giants with tons of free space -- I've trained on elementary school fields with sinkholes and played games on lopsided fields with a few overgrown tufts of grass popping up through the dirt. Vienna is in the "tween" area -- they're not an inner-ring suburb with thousands of soccer-crazed families who play pickup soccer for fun, and they're not an exurb that can carve up its land for sprawling soccer complexes. And they don't have a lot of parents who are willing to spend $25,000 on a travel soccer career so their little precious can get $5,000 in college scholarship money. They have a few good administrators (the field assignor is a miracle worker) but a few who have overstayed their welcome.

(I am curious to know what you mean about house practices being boring and regimented -- do you mean the parent-led practices or the technical staff's extra training? Parents are a crapshoot. Some of us are up to speed on everything U.S. Soccer is trying to accomplish these days. Some are former high school jocks who don't listen to much. VYS could do a better job of following up on the licensing courses and getting parent coaches -- and parents! -- to understand some basic principles.)

Eddie Lima was a great hire. He gets what it means to have a community club that offers programs to people of all levels. And VYS meets 99% of families' needs. If they're 1 percenters who would be bored in NCSL, then by all means go somewhere else. (Though, for the record, VYS boys recently had a team in the Region I Colonial League. It's not impossible.) He has revved up training programs at the younger ages, and that should pay off in the older groups down the road. They're competing at a decent level now, and they have the chance to move up down the road. And they aren't running around poaching from other clubs -- it's "Vienna first."

Sometimes, Eddie's insistence on doing things the "right" way means younger VYS teams compete at a disadvantage. VYS doesn't tier its younger teams into A, B, C and D. It's "AB" in NCSL and "CD" in ODSL. And because NCSL has the "Oh, no, we don't have promotion/relegation divisions at U10, but we make A teams play other A teams" approach to scheduling, it means one VYS team is playing an "A" schedule and one of roughly equal ability is playing a "B" schedule.

And so I think a big part of VYI programs looking like a better alternative is less about what VYS is doing and more about the rest of the region's approach to soccer. Vienna has a proud baseball tradition -- Madison has been nationally ranked at times. How many 10-year-old baseball players are worried about which league to play in? Or whether VLL has the right training programs? These things are just less of an issue in other sports.

If soccer folks could actually bring themselves to follow their own precepts (no tryouts until U12, for example), maybe the sport would be less stressful. Good luck with that.

You're VYS' new VP of Travel, aren't you, because you're certainly selling the company line?

[Anonymous]

8:57 I think you probably have a broader and better VYS perspective than I do. In terms of fields, I do like Blake Lane, Caffi Field, Luther Jackson, Colvin Run, and Oakton H.S. as facilities that are good, although I have also stepped in bizarre truck ruts and potholes while trying to coach younger teams. In terms of the regimented practices, I'm referring only to parent-led house practices. My complaint is that maybe 90 percent of the house practices I have observed as a parent (I have also led far too many for my mental health as a coach, and these were of course perfect in every way, from beginning to end) consist of (1) pointless, useless technical-analytical drills where players stand in line and there's no defender present (e.g., let's all form a huge line and dribble through cones) followed by (2) a lot of developmentally too-advanced and also completely pointless talk about positions, formations, and game strategy (the "Peak by Friday" mentality). If the coach just set up some Puggs and rolled out one or two soccer balls, and helped tie the kids' shoes every now and then, the fun, developmental progress, and Saturday performance would all be immeasurably better. Do I really need to pay Golden Boot just to make sure my recreational player runs around enough at a soccer training to work up a sweat? If Eddie Lima wants to make a rule that all house practices must include 30 minutes of small-sided or scrimmage game play, I think VYS would be better off.

See you at Freedom Hill #2 sometime where the clumps are like the washboard roads at a gold mine . . .

[Anonymous]

Whatever else you can say about VYS, it seems to attract a lot of parents with good writing skills. I've really enjoyed getting an in-depth inside look at the club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8:57 I think you probably have a broader and better VYS perspective than I do. In terms of fields, I do like Blake Lane, Caffi Field, Luther Jackson, Colvin Run, and Oakton H.S. as facilities that are good, although I have also stepped in bizarre truck ruts and potholes while trying to coach younger teams. In terms of the regimented practices, I'm referring only to parent-led house practices. My complaint is that maybe 90 percent of the house practices I have observed as a parent (I have also led far too many for my mental health as a coach, and these were of course perfect in every way, from beginning to end) consist of (1) pointless, useless technical-analytical drills where players stand in line and there's no defender present (e.g., let's all form a huge line and dribble through cones) followed by (2) a lot of developmentally too-advanced and also completely pointless talk about positions, formations, and game strategy (the "Peak by Friday" mentality). If the coach just set up some Puggs and rolled out one or two soccer balls, and helped tie the kids' shoes every now and then, the fun, developmental progress, and Saturday performance would all be immeasurably better. Do I really need to pay Golden Boot just to make sure my recreational player runs around enough at a soccer training to work up a sweat? If Eddie Lima wants to make a rule that all house practices must include 30 minutes of small-sided or scrimmage game play, I think VYS would be better off.

See you at Freedom Hill #2 sometime where the clumps are like the washboard roads at a gold mine . . .

Yes! This drives me crazy! I see it all the time at little kid practices at our local elementary school. The poor kids have been lined up all day in school and now it's time for another drill! When my son was younger we lived overseas and he had some great British coaches. I don't remember much in the way of drills, but lots of scrimmaging, pugg goals and exclamations of "unlucky" when some determined little guy shot and missed. Perhaps that's why he still loves it so much even in high school. Age-appropriate training by coaches who always remembered kids had come out to play a "game."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8:57 I think you probably have a broader and better VYS perspective than I do. In terms of fields, I do like Blake Lane, Caffi Field, Luther Jackson, Colvin Run, and Oakton H.S. as facilities that are good, although I have also stepped in bizarre truck ruts and potholes while trying to coach younger teams. In terms of the regimented practices, I'm referring only to parent-led house practices. My complaint is that maybe 90 percent of the house practices I have observed as a parent (I have also led far too many for my mental health as a coach, and these were of course perfect in every way, from beginning to end) consist of (1) pointless, useless technical-analytical drills where players stand in line and there's no defender present (e.g., let's all form a huge line and dribble through cones) followed by (2) a lot of developmentally too-advanced and also completely pointless talk about positions, formations, and game strategy (the "Peak by Friday" mentality). If the coach just set up some Puggs and rolled out one or two soccer balls, and helped tie the kids' shoes every now and then, the fun, developmental progress, and Saturday performance would all be immeasurably better. Do I really need to pay Golden Boot just to make sure my recreational player runs around enough at a soccer training to work up a sweat? If Eddie Lima wants to make a rule that all house practices must include 30 minutes of small-sided or scrimmage game play, I think VYS would be better off.

See you at Freedom Hill #2 sometime where the clumps are like the washboard roads at a gold mine . . .

That must be a parent coach or house league thing, because in VYS travel, there's an over-emphasis on small-sided games with essentially no coach instruction during that time, as in literally half the practice can be SSGs. This is very different from practices we've been to with other (better) clubs/teams. I'd happily trade some scrimmage time for more training/instruction. But it lets the coach claim to be on the field longer, without doing any real work, and draw a bigger paycheck. And since Eddie gets a cut of almost all of the trainers' paychecks, he doesn't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington also has a great developmental program for kids who are between rec and travel level. Other clubs have a similar program. So if your child is not offered a travel spot, they may be invited to try out for the developmental program, which has lower cost, a mix of professional and volunteer coaches, and a lower level of commitment required. This is a great option for many kids who don't make a travel team but who find that rec may not be teaching them much - or who love their rec team and want to improve their skills as well.

this is only the first year perhaps it had worked great for your kid/family but i've also learned negatives from a couple of families when we're contemplating whether to accept the spot. so for a program still in its infancy i'd say jury's still out.

[Anonymous]

Maybe VYS needs to pare down the number of travel teams and concentrate the talent more. Does it do much good to have a Division 7 NCSL club?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a (lengthy, self-indulgent) observation that at a VYS travel tryout a few days ago it was clear that the teams had already been formed. The existing A teams were not required to try out (maybe for good reason?). The existing B travel teams practiced at length before the tryout began while the house kids stood around quivering in terror. All of the travel players wore white jerseys and the terrified house kids were made to don fluorescent pinnies that branded them as fringe outsiders throughout the tryout (I'm exaggerating, but, yes, the house players all wore pinnies, while the travel players wore uniforms). The tryout consisted of the pre-existing travel teams playing small-sided scrimmages against teams of house players who had never played together before. Some of the house teams playing ugly, physical soccer and mindlessly smacking the long ball slaughtered the travel teams maintaining possession out of the back. Most didn't. Virtually without exception the travel players were small, incredibly quick with their feet, and great at making rapid tactical decisions, but there was little raw speed or power, so that their athleticism, while remarkable in a lot of respects, seemed very specialized. Is that the way it should be? An eye-opening experience, but all kind of pointless because there didn't seem to be a single spot up for grabs. Maybe continuity is the important thing, and parents need to be sure to get their kid on a team at the first opportunity (which I believe is rising U9).

What age group?

Sounds like the rising U10 one last night too (not exactly, but similar). I wondered if there was any point really-are they really going to drop some existing players for new kids they have only seen in those few scrimmages? Sad for people like us who just moved here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe VYS needs to pare down the number of travel teams and concentrate the talent more. Does it do much good to have a Division 7 NCSL club?

VYS has many children in soccer at all different levels. Is the point of soccer in the US today just to train the top players at any given time or is it also to help advance the sport in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe VYS needs to pare down the number of travel teams and concentrate the talent more. Does it do much good to have a Division 7 NCSL club?

VYS has many children in soccer at all different levels. Is the point of soccer in the US today just to train the top players at any given time or is it also to help advance the sport in the US?

I’m wondering if the question is based on a misunderstanding of 8:57’s comments about how VYS tiers its teams. While it's true at the younger ages, it's not what happens when NCSL starts tiering, so concentrating the players on fewer teams would be equivalent to eliminating the lower (ODSL) teams.

It is valid to ask why VYS fields so many teams in the different leagues. That's not saying that kids should be excluded from playing soccer, but whether they’re being encouraged to play on travel teams that are not much better than house teams in order for the club, its trainers and its technical director to rake in more money. But as long as that parent of a Div. 7 player wants to feed his ego by saying my kid plays NCSL, the money is there for the taking. Also, having more teams allows the VYS rep to act more important at the league meetings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a (lengthy, self-indulgent) observation that at a VYS travel tryout a few days ago it was clear that the teams had already been formed. The existing A teams were not required to try out (maybe for good reason?). The existing B travel teams practiced at length before the tryout began while the house kids stood around quivering in terror. All of the travel players wore white jerseys and the terrified house kids were made to don fluorescent pinnies that branded them as fringe outsiders throughout the tryout (I'm exaggerating, but, yes, the house players all wore pinnies, while the travel players wore uniforms). The tryout consisted of the pre-existing travel teams playing small-sided scrimmages against teams of house players who had never played together before. Some of the house teams playing ugly, physical soccer and mindlessly smacking the long ball slaughtered the travel teams maintaining possession out of the back. Most didn't. Virtually without exception the travel players were small, incredibly quick with their feet, and great at making rapid tactical decisions, but there was little raw speed or power, so that their athleticism, while remarkable in a lot of respects, seemed very specialized. Is that the way it should be? An eye-opening experience, but all kind of pointless because there didn't seem to be a single spot up for grabs. Maybe continuity is the important thing, and parents need to be sure to get their kid on a team at the first opportunity (which I believe is rising U9).

What age group?

Sounds like the rising U10 one last night too (not exactly, but similar). I wondered if there was any point really-are they really going to drop some existing players for new kids they have only seen in those few scrimmages? Sad for people like us who just moved here.

This was our experience last year, U-10. We also just moved here then and it looked like an absolutely pointless try-out. Also, where we moved from cross-over training didn't start until U-10 so he had no extra "training" of sorts, whereas here kids have been cross over training since U-7. He's just a great athlete that has some good soccer talent and lots of potential.

Right now on his house league, people are constantly asking us if he plays/played Travel because of his talent. But there was no chance for him at the tryouts last year, he just didn't know as much as the rest of the Travel players that were 'trying out'. He doesn't even want to bother trying out this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe VYS needs to pare down the number of travel teams and concentrate the talent more. Does it do much good to have a Division 7 NCSL club?

VYS has many children in soccer at all different levels. Is the point of soccer in the US today just to train the top players at any given time or is it also to help advance the sport in the US?

I’m wondering if the question is based on a misunderstanding of 8:57’s comments about how VYS tiers its teams. While it's true at the younger ages, it's not what happens when NCSL starts tiering, so concentrating the players on fewer teams would be equivalent to eliminating the lower (ODSL) teams.

It is valid to ask why VYS fields so many teams in the different leagues. That's not saying that kids should be excluded from playing soccer, but whether they’re being encouraged to play on travel teams that are not much better than house teams in order for the club, its trainers and its technical director to rake in more money. But as long as that parent of a Div. 7 player wants to feed his ego by saying my kid plays NCSL, the money is there for the taking. Also, having more teams allows the VYS rep to act more important at the league meetings.

8:57 poster returning (and no, I'm not the new VP of Travel -- there's an election coming up, and I'm not running.)

I think a lot of the VYS discussion in here is productive, but I don't get the "just there to get a paycheck" talk. Paid coaches get paid. McLean, Arlington and a few others shell out for the big names who've coached higher-level teams. Why would VYS coaches have any less incentive than anyone else?

I also disagree that it's just money-grubbing to have lower-level travel teams. Some kids just want that sense of belonging, or to be challenged at the proper level. Is ODSL a waste of time? Are Alexandria, Stoddert, Frederick and CYA just grabbing cash because they have U12 teams in NCSL Div 9? NCSL's U14 Div 7 has another Alexandria team, another Stoddert team, another Frederick team, and an Arlington team.

Now perhaps we'd be better off bridging the House/Travel gap. I'm sure kids enjoy playing in Suburban Friendship League, the non-travel travel league. My kids are likely to end up there or in ODSL.

So maybe we should appreciate House more. Perhaps it would help if we wouldn't pretend it's a waste of time to play anything below NCSL Div 1.